Flyingscot

Listen guys, the ingredients for a sportscar are as follows:

HP+torque+braking+handling+steering response+feel+confidence inspiring+looks+wow_factor -price-mpg-2 seats+reliability.

I think the 350Z has most cars beat even if it loses at the stoplight once in a while.

Eric1h

1993-95 LT1 Firebird Formula/Trans Am:
275 HP @ 5000 rpm / 325 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2400 rpm
1993-95 LT1 Camaro Z28:
275 HP @ 5000 rpm / 325 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2400 rpm

1993 LT1 Firehawk:
300 HP @ 5000 rpm / 330 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2000 rpm
1994 LT1 Firehawk:
300 HP @ 5000 rpm / 330 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2000 rpm
(315 HP @ 5000 rpm / 342 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4000 rpm
w/optional exhaust)
1995 LT1 Firehawk:
300 HP @ 5000 rpm / 330 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2000 rpm
(315 HP @ 5500 rpm / 342 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm
w/optional exhaust)

1996-97 LT1 Firebird Formula/Trans Am:
285 HP @ 5200 rpm / 325 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2400 rpm
1996-97 LT1 Camaro Z28:
285 HP @ 5200 rpm / 325 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2400 rpm
1996-97 LT1 Firebird Formula/Trans Am WS-6:
305 HP @ 5200 rpm / 335 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2400 rpm

1996 LT1 Firehawk:
310 HP @ 5500 rpm / 335 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2400 rpm
1996 LT1 Camaro Z28 SS:
305 HP @ 5200 rpm / 335 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2400 rpm
1997 LT1 Firehawk:
310 HP @ 5500 rpm / 325 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2400 rpm
1997 LT1 Camaro SS:
310 HP @ 5500 rpm / 325 Ft.-Lbs. @ 2400 rpm

1997 LT4 Firehawk:
330 HP @ 5800 rpm / 340 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4500 rpm
1997 LT4 Camaro SS:
330 HP @ 5800 rpm / 340 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4500 rpm

1998-01 LS1 Firebird Formula/Trans Am:
305 HP @ 5200 rpm / 335 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm
1998-01 LS1 Camaro Z28:
305 HP @ 5200 rpm / 335 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm
1998-01 LS1 Firebird Formula/Trans Am WS-6:
320 HP @ 5200 rpm / 345 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm

1998 LS1 Firehawk:
Not produced
1999 LS1 Firehawk:
327 HP @ 5200 rpm / 345 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm
2000 LS1 Firehawk:
330 HP @ 5200 rpm / 345 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm
1998-00 LS1 Camaro SS:
320 HP @ 5200 rpm / 345 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm
2001 LS1 Firehawk:
335 HP @ 5200 rpm / 345 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm
2001 LS1 Camaro SS:
325 HP @ 5200 rpm / 345 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm
(335 HP @ 5200 rpm / 345 Ft.-Lbs. @ 4400 rpm
w/optional exhaust

I wouldnt call those "ALL THE SAME"

especially when dealing with the early to mid 90's LT1's

I'm a big fan of the Ws6 and SS, and Formula, I used to own a formula, I would still own one, but it seems the only people who drive them now(at least where i live) have mullets and "wife beater" T-shirts

i totally agree, SOME of the LT1's are quick, they all have lots of torque, and the LS1's flat out fly.
i am trying to keep this discussion civil, and hope everyone else will do the same. there are just my opinions and experiences.

euroguy

I would think being a former LS1 owner you would know those numbers mean nothing really. I don't even have a LS1 but I do know they under rate the power, and some will dyno approx. the advertised numbers. Ok, yes, the WS6 and SS have 'ram air' and a slightly higher flowing catback...although it is debatable how effective the ram air even is, and accurately measuring it on a dyno probably isn't going to happen in absence of a wind tunnel. Those numbers don't even seem to account consistently for the LS6 intake manifold which became a stand across the board in '01 or '02?

Also if you look on LS1.com; these cars stock dynos seems to vary heavily; ie some are much stronger than others (factory freaks). Haha ok reading over my post I don't really know why I'm even arguing this...but I think there needs to be an LS1 vs 350z shootout to settle the score once and for all.

Eric1h

Well said Cam!!

Ok, so the dead horse called, and asked that we quit beating him.

I dont know about most people, but where i live, the roads have curves! If you want to drive fast in a straight line, so be it. I'll stick with the Z

S8ER95Z

Every recent street racing death Ive seen recently involved one of 2 things.. #1 .. some dipshit pulls out in front of the cars and causes a wreck...or #2 ... 2 homos going flyin up on a curve at a highrate of speed and someone loses control. I tell you what..you can dominant those twisties all you want... I won't be sitting in my car going wow I just got beat thru the curves... My first words will be "****ing moron" I don't care is your Andretti.. playing on curves racing is a chance not worth taking. Period.

Eric1h

That would be a really great lecture, if it werent for the fact that i prefer to do my racing on a track, both in a straight line and a roadcourse feel free to visit www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery for my recent trip to the track.

My statement was purely a point, not my actual intention. I never condone street racing.

CrazyBosnian

I'm up for a shootout, run what ya brung...

Flyingscot

Sorry, but, I find your conclusions on street racing dangerously narrow.

I have read several accounts of street racing that involved deaths and injuries where two or more cars were chasing each other down a major interstate or multi-lane road. The story is often the same: one car changes lane and gets around a minivan or SUV or such like and the car behind tries to keep up by pulling a stunt like driving on the hard shoulder. Driver loses control and bang, one car hits another. In fact, I remember just such a story that was told by a senior Nissan Engineer. Mike works for a volunteer fire department in California. One night he observed just such a race, including the actual accident. When he arrived at the scene, he found a man with no head (one of the racers), his girlfriend with a smashed in skull, an injured mother in a minivan with a dead 5 year old girl and a young boy with crushed limbs. This accident had nothing to do with curves or as you put it "dipshits" that pull out in front of people. And while I understand that some drivers should be more careful, I don't think it is right to portray these victims as the guilty party.

If you want to take a narrow view of what causes high speed accidents, regardless of whether it is on curves or racing from a stoplight, it comes down to two basic things:

1. Impaired vision of what lies ahead.
2. Not planning for the unexpected.

One, if you're not looking well ahead of your current point (because of an obstacle or because you are focused on the car you are racing, etc.) then you cannot even begin to plan for the unexpected. And two, even if you are looking well ahead, EXPERIENCE is the only thing that will reliably allow you to predict events before they happen.

A driver who is well versed and adept at driving fast around curves, knows the value of vision and planning. Ask any professional racing driver and they will tell you racing is not about reactions, it's about planning ahead. Simply put, people should not believe they are a better driver, or even a safer driver, because they do not drive fast on the curves.

If your point was to state that racing on a twisty public road was dangerous, then I agree. I just find your argument of curves versus no curves to be irrelevant.

Fly

S8ER95Z

You can find them narrow all you want..thats fine.. Just my point of view from what Ive seen... In fact I wouldnt consider people zig zagging thru traffic as described as street racers... just dipshits.. regardless of it they are indeed "Racing".

Although you did hit my point... Curves vs no Curves is extremely relavant on the street... as Eric1h clarified..racing at a sanctioned track event is perfectly fine.. Im just referring to street behaviour. Since if your at a roadcourse or autocross event everyone there is in the same mindset .. obviously your intending on running thru curves and your car is setup/capable of it... as far as on the street.. different story.. .does that clarify anything?? As a very experienced ..I guess Im called a "street racer" if I have to be associated with the idiots.. Ive seen a lot of people with the curves attitude ... they figure since they can't win a acceleration battle they can try something more drastic..and in a attempt to win they push their own limits/luck... seen it time and time again... A new cobra that was rolled.. thru a curve.. 3 people died recently in a Z28 .. on a bad road to run on with some curves.. Im not saying 100% of the time.. or that its the reason for the crashes..its just a risk that doesn't need to be taken. Just my .02

Caswell

Where I live, the roads don't have curves. Don't believe me? Run a Mapquest search of 48377. The only streets with bends in them with speed limits ove 35 are highway on and off ramps.

If I want to run on a road course, I'd at least do it racing wheel to wheel like my karting days. I've yet to see the thrill of time trials. It's like qualifying all weekend.

Flyingscot

Okay, I think we've reached a positive outcome on this subject. You sound maturer than I first gave you credit for.

It's a shame that so many people have to pay such a high price for making a mistake in an automobile. When a plane crashes with 300 people on board, it's big news. Yet, 100 times that number dies each year in automobile accidents and we accept this as part of life. Why is this? Carmakers are constantly trying to make a safer vehicle, but, judging from the things I see on my way to work each day, it's the loose nut behind the wheel that needs the attention.

Fly

Lokeey

I have come to a conclusion about something, the only way we are going to get these ls1, lt1 or whatever the fu** they got off our backs is when we are racing, ask for a copy of the dyno sheet,video of the race, and the cops recolection of it as well as 20 whitnessess after we get done beating on them...( if we win ) That way we won't be ridiculed when we post on this board that we indeed beat one of these fastest of fast z28, ws6, ss, whatever supercars...

On top of that I only ask of one thing from you F-body owners. I will inact a law that states you are from this day forth to carry a dyno sheet from 5 diffrent places, timeslips from 3 diffrent 1/4 mi tracks with the min avg of 10 diffrent runs with said cops recolection of it as well as 20 whitnessess in a notebook. That way it will all be clear and have no one calling BS any more..



Is this clear





.

Eric1h

S8ER95Z

S8ER95Z

My problem is I have about 30 seconds worth of time I spend on here... tryin to juggle to many things..my replys are usually short and probably not thought out as well as they should be...I apologize... As I said in my post in the General forum... Enjoy your cars ..thats all that matters.

FinalTA

I'm up for that as well

hankd

LMFAO!! Thanks for proving that you don't know squat about F-bodies...

A WS6 / SS isn't really any faster than a Z28 / Formula / TA...

Stock vs stock with drivers of the same capability: LS1 will be about .5 seconds and 5 mph ahead of the 350Z in the 1/4...

Caswell

You want to know how to get us "off your backs"? Stop repeating history with every GD LS1 kill post. I see nothing unlikely about an LS1 kill in a Z33, but every one of them that spirals into the depths of gheyness at the hands of a Z owner goes something like this...

Z33'er: "My Z33 could smoke an LS1 f-body"
Example:
Z33'er (when confronted with the fact that the LS1 f-body is faster stock for stock): "Well a 350Z with <insert minor mod here> would smoke an LS1 f-body."
Example:
Z33'er (when confronted with the fact that the only 350Z here in the low 13's is on a 100 shot of N2O": Oh well, it doesn't matter because I'd own you in the twisties."
Example:
Now at this point, I sometimes like to point out the LS1 f-body has owned SCCA club racing's T2 class running against M3's, S2000's, Boxsters and the like, all while breathing through a restrictor plate and while carrying 150lbs. of ballast, but in most cases I worry that those facts may shatter the fragile egos of some 350Z owners. Sometimes it's best to let you hold on to the fallacy of the f-car's lack of road course prowess - I'm a benevolant soul after all.

jackie chan

iTrader: (1)

couple of very good points above

Lokeey

You really want to know what is silly....It happens, Now I am not going to say-

- " Anything can happen on the streets"
- " I can take him in the twisties"
- " He's got two more cylinders then me"
- " I blew a tire....thats why he beat me"



What I will say is this and this was the point I was trying to make. As you may know and your fellow fbody friends will agree on this is you have factory freaks and factory duds. I am just curious as to what the NORM is on an fbody. And I am talking about more then twenty but less the 50. Because I see anywhere from 14.2 to 13.2 at the Track. Now Granted you will never see a Z that low without some FI (Naws or turbo) but the norm seems to be 14.0 ( My personal best is 13.88 @ 103) With some going as high as 14.7 and as low as 13.6 .

Now if you look at the numbers there is plenty of room for someone in the other car to get beat. Not every z28 is a 13 second car........


There really is no point to this. I am just stating something that has been said time and time again. It happens....


Oh and I am sorry for the people that say "...Fact: a lightly modd'd 350Z WILL beat a stock LS1..."

Cause you will get your *** handed to you..