if you know anything about high rpm cars you know that the peak is not close to max rpms

 

on a high rpm car, that is actually exactly how it should be setup...peak hp occurs near peak rpm. Otherwise, and it's a waste of rpm (ie, you are spinning the engine far more than it needs to be, without an benefit)

example (997 GT3)



S2000



Or look at the dyno of any high rpm bike, etc. A high rpm motor, by virtue of its existance, makes it peak power higher in the rev range.

if peak hp is not occuring at or near peak rpm, then your simply wasting time, energy, gas, and putting uneeded strain on the internals by revving it out

 

ok.. sorry i guess my memory was a little off but most cars i know peak around 1k before max rpms

also s2k dyno is **** cuz i had a friend with one and he had to bring the car to like 9.2k rpms to feel max power from the vtec and it was from the first production years with the f20 2.0L

 

that looks more like its from an AP2, they peak lower and have a lower redline, thats why its different

 

that is a 2003 S2k dyno chart

 

yea i know that's why i said it doesnt' make any sense and also why i hate dynos

 

It makes perfect sense actually, not sure how you could say otherwise. A high rpm car, by the very nature of it's engine design, makes power at, or very close to redline. While a bit annecdotal, the above 2 dynos, which are both on bone stock, well known, high rpm engines, shows this trend to be true. If you were to take the dyno charts of any high rpm engine, from any vehicle, you would see precisely the same thing. Otherwise, it ain't a high rpm engine (ie, its being spun to a high rpm without good reason).

You can hate dynos all you want, but they are an invaluable tool. They are like any other tool...in the right hands, they do the right job, and in the wrong hands, they are useless. Same goes for a crane, or a jackhammer, or a screwdriver for that matter. Your friend might have felt like revving his S2k engine to 9200 (redline is 9k on them) was doing him some measure of good, but it clearly was not (I'm a former S2k owner myself), and he would have been faster (if 1/4 mile is your thing) by simply shifting just at the hp peak.

 

Ahhh, all this talk about horsepower is giving me a headache. Feels like I'm reading a bad issue of Super Street.

Torque is where its at in drifting bro. The easier it is to light up those tires without having to throw internals around at 8k is most excellent, and your engine might last longer. S2K FTL. I know we're accustomed to caring about hp, but tq is the real deal. Good luck on your build!

 

First of all i said the dyno makes no sense cuz in real life a s2k makes peak power in higher rpms than that in the 2.0L. I already said i was wrong about peak hp in rpms. Yes I know dyno's are good for tuning but no matter what a dyno reads it will never be 100% correct. All i'm saying is what my friend said and I trust him considering he built a 11 sec civic and has been working on honda's his whole life.

Yea I agree this thread is really making me just want to do some minor na mods get the car to 280 whp and eventually get a turbo later on

 

Dont be discouraged by this thread. What works for one person does not mean it works for others. It's your car, do the research and what you find is what you find. Some people have different OPINIONS on how to build motors and cars, hence why we have such a variety of em. If your mods meet your goals, then that is all that matters. Remember, not everyone who has a successfully built n/a vq is running tomei cams, and not everyone is at 8k rpms. Your money, your car, your choice!

 

I guess we can agree to disagree then

 

The more I've read, researched and thought about overall engine build prices... it makes me think (280whp) is not a bad thing

GT motorsports did some impressive stuff with a slightly used VQ, mods and a good tune!

I would love to get 320,315,300 or even 290whp; but at the expense it takes to achieve those numbers, I'm not so sure...

This doesn't scare me away from n/a... but makes me think the bar may have to come down a notch And I owe this realization to those who have paved the way before me, so for those members, a sincere thank you!


Zquicksilver

 

if you want over 300hp NA for a reasonable price then you need an HR instead of a DE

 

But what if you already have the DE?

 

Well here is my current mod list I am planning on getting so far. I cut some major internals down but I think I should be able to make 290-300whp or close to that from this list

SUN Hyper Force
SUN Hyper Voltage
SUN Hyper Ground
DENSO Spark Plugs
DENSO Injectors
ARC Aluminum Oil Pan
ARC Oil COoler
ARC Oil Catch Tank V2
ARC Radiator
GTM 14" Dual Fan Kit
Mishimoto CF Intake
Motordyne MREV2
Tomei 264* Cams
Tomei Rods
Wiseco Racing Pistons 95.5mm 11.1:1 compression
Tomei Head & Main Studs
Tomei Head Gasket
Tomei Headers
Tomei Test Pipes
HKS Dual Hi-Power Titanium (Ti) Exhaust
NISMO Finned Diff Cover
Tomei Technical Trax Advance Type HA Pro Kit - 2 way LSD & 3.9 Final Drive
ORC Twin Plate Clutch

I'm not to sure whats best for tuning: plug & play or just straight on the ecu

 

Your going to have.... one hell of a my350z sig when your done!

 

lol... i think it's just gonna say NA

 

Interesting list.

I recommend you determine your Builder/Tuner first. Then talk to him/them and see what they recommend. Have your Builder help you with the engine parts and have your Tuner help you with the EMS decisions.

It should save you quite a bit of money and eliminate some things that really won't help and that you don't need. Just my 2 cents worth...

 

thanks... it's probally the best thing anyone has commented on... i was planning on doing everything but internals myself so when it gets to that point i'll do that

 

you should speak to your builder before you spend a single dollar, as it sounds more like your just assembling a random list of parts, vs parts that will help you achieve a certain goal.