0jiggy0

iTrader: (13)

LMAO @ red plastic cup. The PCV or aluminum for testing purposes should hold up.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

^Play beer pong all night, drive home with an additional 6-8whp.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

In case ya'll din't know, here are my plans for the exterior:

https://my350z.com/forum/exterior-an...-v2-front.html

Going to have a black/silverstone/CF color scheme.

1cockyZ

iTrader: (46)

I have a z1 maf I would part with

0jiggy0

iTrader: (13)

Fantastic.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

Met up with 1cockyZ (Matt) a few nights ago. A car enthusiast to say the least. He's got a pretty awesome garage and really knows his stuff.

I wish we had more time to talk, but he reiterated a lot of things that many of the NA guys (including myself) have neglected to consider in their builds. Taking weight off the rotating mass is essential in longevity of the engine and a high RPM pursuit. Regardless, I think the car will finally be coming together soon.

As has been discussed in this thread previously, he thinks the headers are somewhat of a detriment to the build. Though they do make great power on a stock setup, they are not optimized for something with a more radical cam. I've been meaning to get some measurements from him or SG so I can optimize this build. Not getting my hopes up for huge gains, but I think there is still more on the table, all things considered.

Thanks again, Matt!

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

Well, I'm really curious to know how the nitrous will do in the higher rpms. It appears that torque has the same exponential climb of a turbo once full boost is reached and then gradually dissipates in linear fashion as opposed to the slightly peaky and then drop off of my NA powerband.

The nitrous map will obviously need a significantly different tune. Aside from the risk of blowing up my engine, could I make power into 7.5-8k rpm? It would seem so. If I really spun it out, could it show a ceiling to Mrev2/spacer or Cosworth? Does it make flat power up to 18k?

What results would you expect?

mgrotel

iTrader: (3)

very good thread, i am putting together the beginnings of an NA build myselt that will include nitrous as well. excited to see how this turns out, maybe i will stay away from the bigger valves.

as for the nitrous, torque is massive at the lower rpms then tapers off, this is why its very dangerous to spray at low rpms, not a good idea below 3.5k. as for the hp, it is linear all the way though. not sure if that what you were asking or not

mgrotel

iTrader: (3)

i doubt its your intake that is hurting your power, check this out
http://g35driver.com/forums/engine-d...g35-coupe.html

edit: nm, im an idiot, you guys already referred to that build earlier in the thread, my bad

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

Keeping my fingers crossed, I'm looking to get the go ahead from Vince at RT Tuning to pick this thing up Friday afternoon. Fitted with the stock 06 airbox-->3" Z1 Maf-->Samco induction hose.

Will break this in on the road and put the kit on before doing the final nitrous tune. Also, I will likely add an RPM window switch, for a more consistent and reliable nitrous spray pattern and powerband, before all is said and done.

With significant less moving parts and no parasitic drain (when not boosting) I have to believe that a properly tuned nitrous setup is much more reliably and safer than FI, both supercharger and turbo. The power on demand is also a nice feature. I am hoping that others see the merit in a built motor with nitrous setup. There is great potential in this niche of the VQ motor.

If anyone has good info on custom long tube headers, please let me know. That will likely be the next project once the nitrous and intake is ironed out.

Hats off AGAIN (and much deserved) to Vince and his crew at RT Tuning for their hard work on this project. If you are in the tri-state area, or even across the country, and want to discuss anything from tuning to products, RT Tuning is a great resource!

mgrotel

iTrader: (3)

window switch is a must, along with a wot switch as well. i went as far as to get a lean shutdown switch as well in case fuel was cut. good luck and let us know how the nitrous tuning goes.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

Yup, I have the WOT switch with the Zex kit already. Aside from the solenoids or lines wearing out, I don't see much maintenance on this kit, which is another plus for nitrous. The car w/ handling mods becomes a track beast, strip or autocross.

mgrotel

iTrader: (3)

where are you mounting the zex unit?

i have not used zex, but have seen some guys have trouble with the brain unit overheating in certain spots. fyi

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

I got the car back a few days ago and it's currently having the body kit installed. I need to get the drf files from Vince before I can post anything in terms of gains, but the car DID make more power in much hotter conditions.

Again, I think the headers are where this car is hurting. The fall off after 6250 does improve a little bit, but it really just hits a wall after 6600rpm. Vince was able to squeeze out 10 ft/lb at the peak.

Ideally, I'd like to get the SG headers with the thermal coating. Can't help buy think the long tubes are giving off a lot of heat, but more importantly, aren't tuned for anything more than the non rev de cams so the power just nose dives up top.

mgrotel

iTrader: (3)

you have stock cams? thats why youre hitting a wall at 6600, imo

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

No, I don't. I have JWT C8Rs. That's what annoys me, because a lot of people are talking about how cams make power higher in the power band, but I've yet to see definitive proof, at least with the UpRev Osiris.

There are two points of interest:
a) Point of peak
b) Power hold or drop after peak

Exceptions:
What is baffling to me is that everyone but Z1, SG, and Jmccarty, make peak power and fall off in the same manner.

Exceptional built motor dynos:

Z1
Z1 peaks at 6.9k-7k rpm, but this is an old dyno:


SG
SG peaks at around 6.3k, but does not fall off like the rest afterwards. Even his Skunk V2 plenum doesn't drop off. Are his headers the magic bullet?


Jmccarty
From what Jmccarty says, his peaks at 6.8k, but that is using race gas. HIs follows a similar plot as SG's, but the second of two peaks up top is where he makes his most power.


Exceptional built motor observations (if any):
-All 3 have different cams
-Use alternative tuning programs
-Jmccarty uses race gas (not sure how that affects power band).
-SG's doesn't even have headwork, IIRC.



Standard built motor dynos:

1cockyz
For most people, their power band looks like 1cockyz's. Even Gabe's stroked motor follows the same peak and path.
For a comparison, this is 1cockyz's dj at RT:


JB
JB's dyno plot actually looks like it does shift the powerband over a little bit. I might have to move this around. He uses the same crawford headers as Z1. The second plot is with the Cosworth plenum.



Standard built motor observations (if any):
-1cockyz has a similar setup with different cams (Brian crower 264 cams with BC springs and Ti retainers) and still his walk off a plank at the same point mine does.

-If you look in my Nismo header ad:
https://my350z.com/forum/exhaust/489...ckup-meet.html

As per Nissan:
- 9+HP increase over 3800-6200 rpm range at the rear wheels
- 13 HP and 13 lb-ft maximum increase at the rear wheels
- Equal length tubing, individually hand-crafted
- 1.625" primary tube stepped up to 1.750" diameter
- 2.25" collector

There is something about that range that Nissan knows well. Those are the exact points where torque begins to take off and the hp peaks (at the top end).

Discussion:
IMHO, SG is the only one that really suggests the headers might be the explanation. Something above and beyond well made shorties (as in Z1's Crawfords or Jmccartys HKSs) AND longer primaries with stepping appears to keep the torque on the high end. Jm's torque (263 @ 4954rpm) must really be flat to make that hp after his peak before 5k. Adam's tq peak is even sooner.

There appears to be no definitive reason why some cars are peaking later other than the cam/header or tuning program. It's possible it's something really subjective like headwork, but I'm not convinced.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

You're thinking is spot on. Revup vs non aside (my car and jmmcarty are non revups, sasha's and jb's are revups) - those Megan headers are a crappy design, copied from another crappy design from a few years ago. The primaries are too small as well. They are good for someone who wants 1. cheap and 2. to list "longtube headers (as if that means anything) in their mod list. The heat thing is really neither here nor there. Sure, coating will help but it's not going to dramatically change anything. You want to talk about heat, my headers are a spaghetti design due to them being long (actually longer than SG's) in a shorty package, so they twist and knot and come up really high (and are steel).

Your cams are by no means radical at all...pretty mild all things considered. I would not have done the valves that you did with them, as they really don't need them at all, but you've got that part done so nothing can be changed there. They are in dire need something better, they are being choked by those headers. A set of DC's and test pipes would have worked better, or something like the Tomei's + test pipes, ot Crawfords + test pipes or if you want an all in one package, the SG's. Any one of these will wake up the top end to where it should be

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

I will try to keep cleaning this up and adding to it as frequently as possible.

kacz07

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for the input, Adam.

mgrotel

iTrader: (3)

if my memory serves me right, didnt the cosworth plenum help out your top end Z1? or was it the larger maf? or am i remembering this wrong?