Ataru074

iTrader: (19)

I have to agree with Z1 and (and it might be a little more expensive)...
for a main track setup and sometimes on the road.. nissan motorsport T2 springs, tc kline konis, hotckis swaybar and endlinks... probably around 2.5/2.8K installed but REALLY a step ahead in handling...
BUT at over 1000lbs/inch of spring rate... forget about any road. period.

to get to the next "big" step is easier (at least IMHO) to start talking of about 10K in suspension/lsd/accessories....
just good quality camber arms, and rear arms on pillowball can add to couple of thousands... a really good lsd and accessories (solid bushings, some sort of cooling.. ) is going to be around 3K installed at the end of the game...
add sways and endlinks.. than arp studs (you want to be sure your semislick or slick will stay connected to your car)... 1K more
than you build around your suspension and if you stick with koni you can go with the 8 series and be around 3/4K for a set+springs+mounts... or the 28xx series and probably end up to 7K or more...
to this add few session of corner balancing and alignments to find the "right" setup for the right tires.. and probably 10K is even too short.. 15K is more realistic.
excluding a good set of lightweight rims, slicks or semislicks tires and so on...
add for safety at least a roll bar, a racing seat, a steering wheel, damn good helmet, padding for the roll bar (that stuff is DAMN expensive), hans device, gloves, shoes and we are WAAAYYYY over 20K... and still... the engine is damn stock ;-)

I forgot one quite important detail....
if the driver/owner isn't able to use the true potential of that kind of setup... like 99% of the people going to HPDE better spend the 15K going 4 times to skip barber school, get Z1 proposed setup and after few events smoke 95% of people going to HPDE... just driving.

IMPORTIMAGE

iTrader: (62)

bc racing ER series have been pretty sick on the track

KingBaby

iTrader: (3)

I doubt the OP is looking to push it to the limit as you regularly do...

1000/in

did you catch that...

Sensi09

Do you really think koni's with s-techs or tanabes will offer better handling than a stock nismo?

How about aftermarket sways and endlinks fitted onto an otherwise stock Nismo.

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

Would love to see a independent shock dyno and a hysteresis loop. Doesn't even have to have force numbers or a grid.

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

Rated?

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

Popularity and review's do not guarantee you'll end up with what your looking for. It only does one thing and one thing only, gives what others that are just as unknowing as you ended up with. If you don't want to fall into that trap, you need to find out what seperates all these products from one another and become a whole lot better informed.

I posted the basic info below at the end of my own coilover review.

Keep in mind that everyone will say that their car "handles like its on rails" and "takes corners much more quickly" and "has almost no body roll" after they put in stiffer springs, because that’s exactly what a stiffer spring will do for you. What these statements often don't take into account is how the setup handles other things like extended use in high-stress situations (the oil's loss of efficiency due to heat buildup), low and high speed damping, long term durability of components and overall construction (aeration of oil, breakdown of bushings and seals, sagging of springs or how much hysteresis/phase lag is or is not present). That being said, there are other ways to find the approximate answers to these questions without listening to others' experiences or trying the product yourself. This includes asking the manufacturer questions about design and materials used. And their is no reason why you shouldn't include asking for shock dyno plots. (After they show you the chart they want you to see, you have to insist in seeing the type of chart that show's hysteresis levels or hysteresis loops). The former will give you a rough idea of how much the manufacturer knows about their product and its research and design, and the latter how the coilover should perform under given situations. If your not comfortable reading the dyno plots, find someone that can. This is not to say that first-hand experience is useless or should be disregarded, but it should not be taken as fact and should not be solely relied on for answers

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

Be honest, this is not a criticism. What your talking about is behavior that is experienced off the track or off of the course, correct?

Setup's that have a lot of low speed damping, will tend to give the illusion that they don't have enough rebound because that's what your senses tell you is going on. Reality is, things would only get worse if you add more rebound and at a certain point you'll simply jack down the suspension because it can't recover. To get the car to "settle" you'd want to lesson or reduce the low speed. And be warned, if anyone say's their product adjust's low speed damping, it's a extra reason to see a shock dyno over the entire adjustment range, from your application of course.

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

I can set you up with the Truechoice Phase 4 setup, selling your all the parts, minus the rear shocks that I still have. End cost will undercut new by a healthy amount, even with you buying new rear shocks from Truechoice. BUT, be forewarned. They do NOT have a adjustment system that effects damping in a way that can deliver a acceptable street ride. It's simply not in their makeup. In contrast the Ohlins I just dyno'd can get to that range at the lower setttings.

Ataru074

iTrader: (19)

well.. seriously the nismo springs are already quite "stiff"...
probably better shocks... (koni yellow) will do the job.

honestly "after"... becomes a "money game" if you truly want to install better suspension AND put them to work.

because the first problem that we have on our cars, in the stock form, when you go to the track is the "contact patch" of our front tires...
no matter which kind of tires, coilovers, swaybars, whatever you're going to install... you'll turn with the front tires working only on the outside shoulder... giving you that nice, safe and slow understeer.

the T2 springs are so stiff that mated with the swaybars allow you to go close to -2 of camber and have a minimal body roll and help you to make the front tires work better.
but in "closed course" environment... -3 or even more is what really makes the difference.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

absolutely true...and what's more, changes in tires, as well as LSD's, will have tremendous affects on this overall feeling.

Ataru074

iTrader: (19)

I'm not shopping for suspension right now...
probably by the end of the year. but just because you used those.. and stage 4 is EXACTLY the set I was looking for...
how to they perform on the track? and how easy are they to adjust.. I mean.. do you need to drop the shock like in the regular koni yellow.. or everything is external?

and.. which spring rates do they use?

thanks

NNOCENT

iTrader: (7)

Greddy Type S w/ EDFC

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

are not made anymore and are not really in the same class as units being discussed

Sensi09

From previous reviews, I thought that the truechoice, though firmer, was not punishing on the street.

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

Without posting the dyno's to explain and yet not wanting to spill the beans so to speak about how they worlk,.............Harsh, no. Far from it. At lower settings your left with insuffecient mid and high speed damping.

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

Search DaveH, he posted extensively on his impression's of the setup on the track. They are easy to adjust. Front adjust's rebound from the top of the piston shaft by lifting the hood. The fronts adjust compression by you laying flat on the ground just behind the tire centerline with a screw driver in hand, you reach under the car and make the adjustment. For the rear, you adjust compression the same as the front. Rear rebound is adjusted by jacking the rear using a floor jack at the diff. With enough room now showping at the tops of the tires in the fender wells, you reach up and adjust rebound just below the upper shock mounts in a slotted window built into the top of the shock. Koni yellows adjust rebound in the exact same way, no need to drop a shock their either.

I ran them with 560/427 rates, in kit form then come with 525/425 rates. I tested mine for a very short time with 650lbs fronts. And while back I also tried 448lbs fronts (too soft). Performance wise, the 560/427 setup really did rock. In my case their undoing was the ride quality during my commute.

Ataru074

iTrader: (19)

I really like my actual setup with 615F 670R (with the rear in stock location)
for how I'm running the car as tires / diff setup.
and yes... in the regular commute isn't the most pleasant setup

I found daveh extensive (very) test... what really concerns me is how many times he did need to have them fixed... nothing to say about an apparently excellent customer support.

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

I noticed his issues back when they happened, I never once had a issue myself.

On spring rates, he's something on topic that I posted in another thread on the subject.

What spring rates to run ultimately comes down the math being right AND proving the math with actualy testing. The following give's some insight to a winning Grand-Am teams testing on the 350Z in terms of spring rates.

The following quotes comes from a interview of the owner of Unitech Racing Jackson Stewart, the crew chief for the 350Z Grand-Am team Jeff Wisener and the owner of Perfomance Nissan, Michael Cronin.

SZM: "I noticed a trend that many Z owners are putting coil-over suspension systems on their cars, but you mentioned today on the track that many people are putting too stiff a suspensin and actually making the car handle less effectively. Is that true and can you comment on that again, please?"

Stewart: "Yes, it is absolutely true. Most of the aftermarket suspensions sold for the car are way too stiff. More often then not, for actual track performance, a lot of upgrades are hurting the performance of the car."

Cronin: "The common perception is you don't want a car to sway in turns, squat during acceleration, or dive during bracking, but those are things you need to have the car do to handle correctly."

SMZ: When setting up your race cars, did you use or try any of the common aftermarket suspension kits that are avaliable?"

Stewart: We looked at then in a sense that we wanted to know what was out there, but we also had gone through a range of springs on the car and if we went siffer, we lost performace. We have a range of a few poinds we use in the rear to make it oversteer or understeer. So if we see a spring someone is running on the street that is 50 percent stiffer, they are losing overall performance." {His use of the 50% number is a somewhat ironic number to toss out given that 314lbs upped 50% is 471lbs and yet they went with 525lbs or +67% in the front. Unitech did the R&D for the Truechoice 350Z coilover system and that setup uses 525/425 spring rates}.

Same interview makes mention of the following,....
Future parts for sale:
Moton Club Sport suspension package

To comment on the above, they switched to a Koni 2822 4-way monotube setup

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

This is where these things start getting overly confusing for the avg person and where people start looking spring rates as being some sort of be all and end all determining factor. Talking about spring rates without making mention of any other part of the setup is pretty useless overall. The relationship of the damper to the spring is critical - the final rate of the spring in and of itself is not all that important of a factor till you know what spring the damper will take and how it reacts to compression and rebound rates. Then you start factoring in your tire, your swaybar weights and settings, your wheel weight/tire weight and compound and it can change again. None of it's a zero sum game and the only way to effectuate meaningful changes is taking lots of notes over an extended period of time.