I didnt think Sasha knew how to tune FI. He was really known for his personal car and his huge improvements with NA

 

All the major standalones (and even UTEC) use MAP. For boost it's more accurate and less failure/error prone. As you saw in the case of the OP the MAF sensor was fouled with oil and threw the whole tune off...this would not have happened with a MAP based tune. Even factory boost cars use MAP in boost... I still advocate MAF tuning for N/A and low boost (non-track driven). If price is a problem find a used UTEC for a few hundred $$ which provides MAP tuning and basic safety features lacking in Osiris. You don't have to ditch Osiris either, you can keep it for adjusting cam timing, idle speed and deleting codes.

 

Exactly. He definitely can "tune" fi but IMHO I wouldn't have picked him to tune my car with Osiris. Besides that, how many turbo Z's has he tuned to 600whp?

I believe that the failure was negligence; by who? I don't know. Most likely the OP (sorry to say gix). If you run a maf based tune on a built turbo car you're begging for issues; there's a reason everyone in this FI section runs MAP (haltech, pro efi, etc). Trust me nobody would spend all the extra money if it wasn't worth it!

 

Quoted for Truthiness.

Sucks so bad Gixx :S

 

I don't see any negligence on my part whatsoever. It is Vince @ R/T that said Haltech would be nice, but absolutely not necessary and that there would be no issues using Osiris. If there are issues then I should have been told that BEFORE any tuning or work was done on the car no???. Vince has been very transparent in all of our dealings, So I am sre this is not the case.


If you are saying there is negligence somewhere then unfortunately that lies in R/T's basket if what you are saying holds truth.

How can I be negligent if i bring my car to a shop that is supposed to know what they are doing and advise the customer of any issues that may be present and what is needed THE FIRST TIME to avoid any problems???.

I guess I will let Vince reply to that post since basically what is being said is that his tune and advice was negligent. Hope that is not the case but the more and more people I talk to, the more and more there are opposite opinions . Who to believe??

 

Sounds like you want informed consent. Are you really trying to hold the tuner to the same standard we expect from health care providers. I'd argue that is unreasonable for this sort of thing. These are buyer beware type games we play here.

 

Your turbo blew chunks into the intake and oil system. Given that the tune was a secondary failure I wouldn't go pointing fingers at Vince. The metal in oil and oil in air could have done your bearings just as quickly as the tune being thrown off by fouling up your intake.

However, if he aggressively steered you away from Haltech (anything more than you asking casually if it's 'necessary', because technically it isn't) then I'd be a bit curious about that. I know he does alot of Osiris tuning (and to perfection in my experience) but I think he's pretty well versed with Haltech as well...

 

osirus is definitely capable of running the car, and very well at that.

But when issues arise, such as oil in the intake, or anything else that one does not expect, there is no way for osirus to do anything but continue as nothing is wrong.

After my 1st motor popped, i wasnt going to gamble on a EMS without failsafes. The haltech piggyback didnt have them, so I went proefi. The new haltech does have them now.

At this point, there wont be much else to gain. It will all be finger pointing. Either rebuild, or part out and sell. 95% of me wishes I woulda parted out and sold and started with a better platform suited for my goals.

 

I understand your post better now. Either way you last paragraph is correct. I will be giving R/T one last go and hopefully it all comes together this time, They will rebuild it, tune it and all will be done by them (as it was previously) If it all works out then great, if it doesn't, well that is a whole other ball of wax all together, so time will tell.

 

Are you sticking with Osiris only for the EMS again?

 

Shadi, I never "aggressively" steered you from Haltech, or whatever extra adjectives were used to make your statements sound stronger. Honestly it probably came up once during the initial build and our power goals were 500-550ish and I said it wasn't necessary. Also the budget you were initially working with really didn't allow it. Then when we made 600+ as easily as we did the Osiris was working flawlessly, by that I mean even running lower to higher boost values on the same map everything was adjusting accordingly. Timing and afr's were consistent at lower and higher boost and as boost was raised timing dipped down and AFR's richened slightly, BFS went up as MAF voltage increased. Everything looked great and I was confident that Osiris would be more then satisfactory for the set up. Another EMS option wasn't even discussed until you had a chance to get a full blown Haltech set up for something like 800 bucks. With dual widebands and all. If you recall I said..."I would def do that". At that point you asked me for the Osiris ROM file so that when you went Haltech your tuner could use those values to build a base map(knowing now you had your info incorrect)....I said "that's impossible but here is the ROM file and good luck"...or something to that effect.

Shadi, you need to be honest here with yourself...the scope of the motor build and set up has changed from a 500whp car that you wanna have fun at the track occasionally to a 600+whp car that you can flog for 5 or 6 40 minute sessions at a long road race course. We talked on the phone and we went over everything and what we could do together to get you right and you understood. Now here I see these posts where you are listening to all these other people and they give you guarantees and what it should and shouldn't be from people that never even seen your car...I am over it!! Your still trying to point fingers at everyone, accept no responsibility yourself and act like you are gonna give R/T one more chance to make it right, like we should be grateful to have this one last chance.... Then god forbid anything goes wrong your attitude is "well that is a whole other ball of wax all together". These are the reasons good shops(there are plenty out there) don't even wanna cut breaks or put themselves out there for customers as it always seems to back fire on them.

Bottom line is R/T or Vince(however you wanna label it) accept zero responsibility for the failure of your motor. I know what happened, I have datalogs, dyno graphs, emails of multiple failures of other sub systems on the car...all contributing factors to the ultimate failure. We are all adults and ultimately our decisions we own. Customers have responsibilities in these situations as well, whether it is using caution at the track and not driving so many laps with your car smoking so bad that you get black flagged from a blown turbo(and maybe you should have pulled off the track as soon as you saw any smoke) to maybe not spouting off your misguided feelings about the shop that has done the work on public forums to cause them to come in and have to defend themselves.

We're all big boys here....so with that said I am choosing NOT to work with you anymore, not on the discounted labor and parts at just above cost as we talked about to get you all back together or anything. I have the right to choose my customers and I wanna work with customers that can hold responsibility for the choices we make together on a project(and we have a lot of them and are very thankful), so when I get home I can just hang with my kids and not worry about having to check a forum for some posts that have half given info, unjustified finger pointing and just plain and simple ******** talked. I really don't plan on checking this thread or responding here anymore, so feel free to give me a call if you would like to discuss this, but as I have already spent way more time(including personal time away from my family) on this situation I will not be changing my decision. Thanks to all who gave us good words and those who made valid points and spoke intelligently for us.

Vince

 

Great post Vince. Im a Service Manager at a huge shop and I have to say I agree. Customers are ignorant when something goes wrong and blames it on whomever bc they think in return badmouthing you will make you give in and help more for next to nothing or nothing. So many customers will get their oil changed I inform they have leaks from rear main seal valve cover oil pan and to watch their oil. 7 months later complaint goes in demanding we buy them a motor bc we changed oil 7 months prior. Stupid ignorant customers who I wish was never a customer. Until you own a shop or run one you have no idea how bad it is

 

Hey, when your car is fixed, wanna race us again?


You should get a honda been running 5 years straight on my same build

 

I can really relate to this on every level, and understand completely.

 

Lol at Honda owner who joined to say race again and shouldve bought a honda lmao

 

WHat is the CRX putting down? my G has been boosted for 5 years (420whp) and nearly 40k miles on the setup and everything is still perfect. No OC, no nothing. I also have a Z with 125k on the motor and 6-years/70k on a greddy kit. Other than some OC (mainly the turbo seals) the Z still runs over 400whp. It's not about make/model it's about doing things right and knowing how to take care of your ****. I would have shut the car down at the first sign of issues. Smoking is a pretty big one.

 

F torque steer! I'd rather build my forearms by doing pull ups!

 

Also side note:

Comp oiless turbos.. Hint hint hint!

 

man its really not as bad as you would think, we actually have g35 in our shop right now getting a tonn of work, we respect these cars. Its got a single turbo with vband clamps that have loosened and isnt; getting making boost like it should.

This G can just keep up to my rex.

The Rex has 394WHP at 20psi
my 1/4 is crap with a 2.7 60 footer on street tires 12.8 at 124mph

The Ek is 667WHP 511tq at 23psi
we havent run this bad boy yet but soon enough.

 

East coast Canada love Hondas thats what we have around here mostly too Jamie leger holds the record for sport compacts 10.39 or something like that