ZCCC 2nd Creek Track Day 5/25/05
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,258
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From: Golden, CO
I'm going to try to get there as close to 7 as possible (which for me on a Saturday morning will probably mean closer to 7:30,) since I haven't registered or tech'd either.
Also, I wonder if anyone has one of those shade canopies like Don brought last year…the weather forecast sounds like it's going to be intermittently sunny and rainy, and some cover would be helpful in both conditions. I'll see if I can find one to bring between now and then, but thought I'd mention it here, too, in case anyone has one convenient.
Also, I wonder if anyone has one of those shade canopies like Don brought last year…the weather forecast sounds like it's going to be intermittently sunny and rainy, and some cover would be helpful in both conditions. I'll see if I can find one to bring between now and then, but thought I'd mention it here, too, in case anyone has one convenient.
Guys, I should have posted this earlier, but I forgot. I won't be coming to the track day as I forgot that it's the same day as Sarah's college graduation ceramony. It didn't cross my mind until I was racing go karts with the Z car club last weekend and it was brought up in our conversations. And to think I just got new set of Toyo t1-R's to try out and was really ready to break them in. Sorry I will have to miss it. Have fun and be safe.
Mudd
Mudd
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 358
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From: Denver
Originally Posted by GaryM05
I'm going to try to get there as close to 7 as possible (which for me on a Saturday morning will probably mean closer to 7:30,) since I haven't registered or tech'd either.
Also, I wonder if anyone has one of those shade canopies like Don brought last year…the weather forecast sounds like it's going to be intermittently sunny and rainy, and some cover would be helpful in both conditions. I'll see if I can find one to bring between now and then, but thought I'd mention it here, too, in case anyone has one convenient.
Also, I wonder if anyone has one of those shade canopies like Don brought last year…the weather forecast sounds like it's going to be intermittently sunny and rainy, and some cover would be helpful in both conditions. I'll see if I can find one to bring between now and then, but thought I'd mention it here, too, in case anyone has one convenient.
Arrrugh, I can't win with these brake pads. So just got them in a little while ago, both front and rears. The fronts are okay they're the HP+, but the rears are the HPS. I think that the HPS are just considered High Performance Street pads. The only thing is that the company didn't charge me for the rears. So I guess I'm 
rather than 
. I guess I'll see tomorrow.
David
rather than . I guess I'll see tomorrow.David
New Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 4
From: Golden, CO
Another great day at the track! Good weather (for the most part...more on that later) and lots of track time. It was great to see those who made it out, and sorry to miss the regulars who couldn't make it. We had at least 1 350 in each run group, so there was always someone to watch on the track.
The weather was bright and sunny (but not too hot) for most of the day, but right before the final session of the day (which was my group, as luck would have it,) some ominous-looking clouds started rolling in. About 5 minutes into the session, it became obvious that it was going to rain at any moment. Finally, while approaching turn 1 on about the fourth lap, I saw a few rain drops appear on my windshield. Exiting turn 1, the rain stopped. Then while approaching turn 9 on that lap, it started again, a little heavier. Then, while approaching turn 1, it stopped again. This continued for about 10 minutes, with rain appearing on some parts of the track, but not all. So it was a constant effort to turn on the wipers when necessary, but to turn them off once I was out of the rain so as not to smear all the dead bugs across the windshield and obscure my vision. And the fact that the rain kept moving from one part of the track to another didn't make it any easier.
The Z handled fairly well in the wet, but I had quite a moment while exiting the hairpin. I was taking it a little easy on the power due to the increasing rain, and then with NO warning, the whole car went completely sideways, with the back end deciding that it was done following...it wanted to lead for awhile! I managed to catch it with minimal tank-slapping and stayed on the track without spinning, but my immediate thought was "That's it, back on goes the VDC," and hit the button to to turn it back on before reaching the next corner. There were no more incidents the rest of that session, but it was clear by the middle of the session that the 5 of us on track at that time would just ease our cars around through the rest of the session, as it was clear that the rainwater was bringing a lot of oil up out of the track. There was no running or standing water anywhere on the track, but the rain coming down and the dirt and oil coming up (combined with the different patch-jobs that have accumulated on the track over the past several years) made for less-than-ideal traction conditions.
I'm glad to have had the chance to run the Z in the wet at the track, but I can state without reservation that I'll take my track days dry in the future, thank you.
Again, it was a lot of fun (as always) to track the Z and see everyone who made it. Hopefully we can have another one soon!
Gary
The weather was bright and sunny (but not too hot) for most of the day, but right before the final session of the day (which was my group, as luck would have it,) some ominous-looking clouds started rolling in. About 5 minutes into the session, it became obvious that it was going to rain at any moment. Finally, while approaching turn 1 on about the fourth lap, I saw a few rain drops appear on my windshield. Exiting turn 1, the rain stopped. Then while approaching turn 9 on that lap, it started again, a little heavier. Then, while approaching turn 1, it stopped again. This continued for about 10 minutes, with rain appearing on some parts of the track, but not all. So it was a constant effort to turn on the wipers when necessary, but to turn them off once I was out of the rain so as not to smear all the dead bugs across the windshield and obscure my vision. And the fact that the rain kept moving from one part of the track to another didn't make it any easier.
The Z handled fairly well in the wet, but I had quite a moment while exiting the hairpin. I was taking it a little easy on the power due to the increasing rain, and then with NO warning, the whole car went completely sideways, with the back end deciding that it was done following...it wanted to lead for awhile! I managed to catch it with minimal tank-slapping and stayed on the track without spinning, but my immediate thought was "That's it, back on goes the VDC," and hit the button to to turn it back on before reaching the next corner. There were no more incidents the rest of that session, but it was clear by the middle of the session that the 5 of us on track at that time would just ease our cars around through the rest of the session, as it was clear that the rainwater was bringing a lot of oil up out of the track. There was no running or standing water anywhere on the track, but the rain coming down and the dirt and oil coming up (combined with the different patch-jobs that have accumulated on the track over the past several years) made for less-than-ideal traction conditions.
I'm glad to have had the chance to run the Z in the wet at the track, but I can state without reservation that I'll take my track days dry in the future, thank you.
Again, it was a lot of fun (as always) to track the Z and see everyone who made it. Hopefully we can have another one soon!
Gary
Last edited by GaryM05; Jun 26, 2005 at 05:20 PM.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,623
Likes: 1,393
From: Aurora, Colorado
Gary- Thanks for the excellent write-up and pics of SCR. You also got to experience that wonderful weather phenomenon of wet-dry-wet track conditions. Isn't it amazing that a relatively short (1.6 mile) circuit like SCR can have such varying conditions at times? Sounds like you and your Z got a good workout! Can you imagine the same thing happening at a BIG track like Road America? It can be bone dry on the front straight/pit area and absolutely streaming down with rain through the Carousel and back straight sections. It's one more reason why road racing is such a challenging discipline!
Sorry I couldn't join the fun this time out. I had a committment to run SCR the next day as an instructor for a SCCA Time Trials school. Had plenty of fun and just enough brake pad to make it through. We should all enjoy it this summer and fall. After this year, SCR will pass into the realm of being a "ghost track" that will live on only in our memories...
Sorry I couldn't join the fun this time out. I had a committment to run SCR the next day as an instructor for a SCCA Time Trials school. Had plenty of fun and just enough brake pad to make it through. We should all enjoy it this summer and fall. After this year, SCR will pass into the realm of being a "ghost track" that will live on only in our memories...
Last edited by dkmura; Jun 27, 2005 at 07:56 AM.
It was a good day. There were plenty of Z’s and all other types of cars. It seems like each event is a little different. I’m thinking that there were maybe thirty-five drivers that day.
Craig and I were in the same group. Also in the group there was an Elise, WRX STI, two other 350z’s, a older Porsche 911, and some other cars. I did a 180 right after turn five in front of the STI and I got a good view of the front of his car.
I think that Gary had the hardest time in his group because a couple cars wouldn’t let him by on the front straight away, namely the older Corvette and Lotus Esprit. He also had some issues with a 280zx that shouldn’t have been in that class that waved Gary by on a turn. Gary was also the only one of us that had to deal with the rain.
Will showed up a little late. I had a chance to ride along with Will, who ran in the Beginner class because of a tire issue. The cars in Will’s group were a lot of the older Z’s including Darrel's 240, a few 914 Porsches, Craig’s son’s Eclipse, and 99 Poopstang GT. Will made the comment when he started behind an older ZX, “Is this the way these guys have been driving, I’m not even pushing it?” I have a couple movie files inside the car that I’m trying to figure out how to post.
I ended up running my stock rear pads with the HP+ up front. I wasn’t really impressed as compared to the EBC I had last year. I made it though the day, barely, with that setup, but I wish I would have been more prepared and had one less thing I had to worry about. I had ran the rears all the way down to the steel baking plate, well there was less than a 1/16 left on three of them except one. That one hit the steel, but nothing major. I also have to get new rear tires which are too the wear indicators. I guess my unplanned Drifting Exposition that day took its toll.
It was a fun day, I’ll definitely plan on the CSP track and 2nd Creek day again. The Chairpersons also mentioned that next year they have a few replacements for 2nd Creek closing. The Pueblo track or a mystery track that they couldn’t talk about.
I am really enjoying the track days. I really wasn't planning on running my car on the track when I first bought it, but now I can't understand why I ever thought that way. There is a great deal that I can learn, but I am having fun in the meantine. It's also great seeing the different cars and the different drivers. I really hope to see more 350z on the track in the future.
David
Craig and I were in the same group. Also in the group there was an Elise, WRX STI, two other 350z’s, a older Porsche 911, and some other cars. I did a 180 right after turn five in front of the STI and I got a good view of the front of his car.
I think that Gary had the hardest time in his group because a couple cars wouldn’t let him by on the front straight away, namely the older Corvette and Lotus Esprit. He also had some issues with a 280zx that shouldn’t have been in that class that waved Gary by on a turn. Gary was also the only one of us that had to deal with the rain.
Will showed up a little late. I had a chance to ride along with Will, who ran in the Beginner class because of a tire issue. The cars in Will’s group were a lot of the older Z’s including Darrel's 240, a few 914 Porsches, Craig’s son’s Eclipse, and 99 Poopstang GT. Will made the comment when he started behind an older ZX, “Is this the way these guys have been driving, I’m not even pushing it?” I have a couple movie files inside the car that I’m trying to figure out how to post.
I ended up running my stock rear pads with the HP+ up front. I wasn’t really impressed as compared to the EBC I had last year. I made it though the day, barely, with that setup, but I wish I would have been more prepared and had one less thing I had to worry about. I had ran the rears all the way down to the steel baking plate, well there was less than a 1/16 left on three of them except one. That one hit the steel, but nothing major. I also have to get new rear tires which are too the wear indicators. I guess my unplanned Drifting Exposition that day took its toll.
It was a fun day, I’ll definitely plan on the CSP track and 2nd Creek day again. The Chairpersons also mentioned that next year they have a few replacements for 2nd Creek closing. The Pueblo track or a mystery track that they couldn’t talk about.
I am really enjoying the track days. I really wasn't planning on running my car on the track when I first bought it, but now I can't understand why I ever thought that way. There is a great deal that I can learn, but I am having fun in the meantine. It's also great seeing the different cars and the different drivers. I really hope to see more 350z on the track in the future.
David
David and Gary really summed it all up. David, thanks again for your help with the pads. I hope the next time more of us can make it out, it always seems a shame when you realize there are people missing this. Good times..
Will
Will
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 358
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From: Denver
Originally Posted by Bottom
It was a good day. There were plenty of Z’s and all other types of cars. It seems like each event is a little different. I’m thinking that there were maybe thirty-five drivers that day.
Craig and I were in the same group. Also in the group there was an Elise, WRX STI, two other 350z’s, a older Porsche 911, and some other cars. I did a 180 right after turn five in front of the STI and I got a good view of the front of his car.
I think that Gary had the hardest time in his group because a couple cars wouldn’t let him by on the front straight away, namely the older Corvette and Lotus Esprit. He also had some issues with a 280zx that shouldn’t have been in that class that waved Gary by on a turn. Gary was also the only one of us that had to deal with the rain.
Will showed up a little late. I had a chance to ride along with Will, who ran in the Beginner class because of a tire issue. The cars in Will’s group were a lot of the older Z’s including Darrel's 240, a few 914 Porsches, Craig’s son’s Eclipse, and 99 Poopstang GT. Will made the comment when he started behind an older ZX, “Is this the way these guys have been driving, I’m not even pushing it?” I have a couple movie files inside the car that I’m trying to figure out how to post.
I ended up running my stock rear pads with the HP+ up front. I wasn’t really impressed as compared to the EBC I had last year. I made it though the day, barely, with that setup, but I wish I would have been more prepared and had one less thing I had to worry about. I had ran the rears all the way down to the steel baking plate, well there was less than a 1/16 left on three of them except one. That one hit the steel, but nothing major. I also have to get new rear tires which are too the wear indicators. I guess my unplanned Drifting Exposition that day took its toll.
It was a fun day, I’ll definitely plan on the CSP track and 2nd Creek day again. The Chairpersons also mentioned that next year they have a few replacements for 2nd Creek closing. The Pueblo track or a mystery track that they couldn’t talk about.
I am really enjoying the track days. I really wasn't planning on running my car on the track when I first bought it, but now I can't understand why I ever thought that way. There is a great deal that I can learn, but I am having fun in the meantine. It's also great seeing the different cars and the different drivers. I really hope to see more 350z on the track in the future.
David
Craig and I were in the same group. Also in the group there was an Elise, WRX STI, two other 350z’s, a older Porsche 911, and some other cars. I did a 180 right after turn five in front of the STI and I got a good view of the front of his car.
I think that Gary had the hardest time in his group because a couple cars wouldn’t let him by on the front straight away, namely the older Corvette and Lotus Esprit. He also had some issues with a 280zx that shouldn’t have been in that class that waved Gary by on a turn. Gary was also the only one of us that had to deal with the rain.
Will showed up a little late. I had a chance to ride along with Will, who ran in the Beginner class because of a tire issue. The cars in Will’s group were a lot of the older Z’s including Darrel's 240, a few 914 Porsches, Craig’s son’s Eclipse, and 99 Poopstang GT. Will made the comment when he started behind an older ZX, “Is this the way these guys have been driving, I’m not even pushing it?” I have a couple movie files inside the car that I’m trying to figure out how to post.
I ended up running my stock rear pads with the HP+ up front. I wasn’t really impressed as compared to the EBC I had last year. I made it though the day, barely, with that setup, but I wish I would have been more prepared and had one less thing I had to worry about. I had ran the rears all the way down to the steel baking plate, well there was less than a 1/16 left on three of them except one. That one hit the steel, but nothing major. I also have to get new rear tires which are too the wear indicators. I guess my unplanned Drifting Exposition that day took its toll.
It was a fun day, I’ll definitely plan on the CSP track and 2nd Creek day again. The Chairpersons also mentioned that next year they have a few replacements for 2nd Creek closing. The Pueblo track or a mystery track that they couldn’t talk about.
I am really enjoying the track days. I really wasn't planning on running my car on the track when I first bought it, but now I can't understand why I ever thought that way. There is a great deal that I can learn, but I am having fun in the meantine. It's also great seeing the different cars and the different drivers. I really hope to see more 350z on the track in the future.
David
Originally Posted by Darrel
Most every one goes to the group with the less amount of cars. That's why I was in D. Most times D and B have the most cars. I always keep an eye in my rear view mirrow for those who are looking to pass. I did have fun chasing down the 914's. That's not saying much with the 1.6 or whatever they have in them, but it was fun nonetheless.
Yeah, I agree. They said that the group I was in was the most crowded that day. I’m really surprised how much it thins out as the day goes on. Towards the end it was just me and three other cars in the C class. It was nice to have the open space. Sorry Darrel, I didn’t mean to imply anything about everyone in the D group being beginners or slow or something like that.
Quick question for you guys. I have to pick up a set of rear tires. The ones that I’m looking at are the Toyos Proxes T1-R and the BFG G-Force TA KDW2. They’re about the same cost, $165 range. I think that Mudd has had good things to say about the Toyos, but the BFG have a 300 tread wear rating and compared to 280 for the Toyos. The BFG has that weird, but cool tread pattern. I currently have the Michelin Pilot Sports on the front, plus I have a semi-new set of the Bridgestone Potenzas Nissan gave me for the front from the feathering “problem”. I would like to stay with the Michelins for the rears too, but they are pretty expensive. What are important for me are both a long life and a good inexpensive tire for traction. So my question is, what are your suggestions? And, are there any issues with using different brand or type tires up front than in the rear?
Thanks,
David
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,623
Likes: 1,393
From: Aurora, Colorado
Originally Posted by Bottom
Yeah, I agree. They said that the group I was in was the most crowded that day. I’m really surprised how much it thins out as the day goes on. Towards the end it was just me and three other cars in the C class. It was nice to have the open space. Sorry Darrel, I didn’t mean to imply anything about everyone in the D group being beginners or slow or something like that.
Quick question for you guys. I have to pick up a set of rear tires. The ones that I’m looking at are the Toyos Proxes T1-R and the BFG G-Force TA KDW2. They’re about the same cost, $165 range. I think that Mudd has had good things to say about the Toyos, but the BFG have a 300 tread wear rating and compared to 280 for the Toyos. The BFG has that weird, but cool tread pattern. I currently have the Michelin Pilot Sports on the front, plus I have a semi-new set of the Bridgestone Potenzas Nissan gave me for the front from the feathering “problem”. I would like to stay with the Michelins for the rears too, but they are pretty expensive. What are important for me are both a long life and a good inexpensive tire for traction. So my question is, what are your suggestions? And, are there any issues with using different brand or type tires up front than in the rear?
Thanks,
David
Quick question for you guys. I have to pick up a set of rear tires. The ones that I’m looking at are the Toyos Proxes T1-R and the BFG G-Force TA KDW2. They’re about the same cost, $165 range. I think that Mudd has had good things to say about the Toyos, but the BFG have a 300 tread wear rating and compared to 280 for the Toyos. The BFG has that weird, but cool tread pattern. I currently have the Michelin Pilot Sports on the front, plus I have a semi-new set of the Bridgestone Potenzas Nissan gave me for the front from the feathering “problem”. I would like to stay with the Michelins for the rears too, but they are pretty expensive. What are important for me are both a long life and a good inexpensive tire for traction. So my question is, what are your suggestions? And, are there any issues with using different brand or type tires up front than in the rear?
Thanks,
David
You mention three factors are important to you: durability, cost and traction. Keep in mind that durability and traction are usually at opposite ends of the spectrum. Cost seems more directly related to brand marketing rather than engineering and materials.
Tire makers hate seeing you mix up brands and compounds. They may have a point when the compounds used don't match up well with another tire on the opposite axle. You should definitely maintain the same stagger and tire size on the rear axle, even if you mix makes. Give me a call if you have any questions: (303) 752-9777.
Asking that question David will get you a whole buch of opinions. I have been high on the T1-s ever since I put them on. I think they have alot of bang for the buck, hell anything is better then those Re040's that came with the Z. I would disagree with David M. with the Toyo's on one point. I have found them to be superb in the rain, although that is not their main selling feature. I also feel for the money, they are very well priced. I bought this set of T1-R's just a few weeks ago that were cheaper then the T1-s. I paid $700 shipped for this last set I belive.
I will give you a review of the T1-R's as soon as I put some miles on them. I am having my buddy mount them tomorrow for me, since he will finally have the time to do it.
Mudd
I will give you a review of the T1-R's as soon as I put some miles on them. I am having my buddy mount them tomorrow for me, since he will finally have the time to do it.
Mudd
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,623
Likes: 1,393
From: Aurora, Colorado
Brian- Glad you set the record straight on the rain capabilities of the T1-R. Since it's so new, what do you think that model's main strengths are? Also, do you mind posting where you purchased them from? That sounds like very favorable pricing for an 18" tire.
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 263
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From: Arvada, CO
Glad to hear everyone had a good day at 2nd Creek. I had a good day as well, that is , after my agricultural experience during the first session. I can only blame it on exuberance and cold tires. My third session ended when the tranny locked up in 4th and I had to limp off the track. It looks like I am in need of an oilcooler for the box. Does anybody have any suggestions on where to look for such a thing? NISMO does not list any so I'm open to any input.
Bought from Tiresavings.com, although I have bought from Onlinetires.com in the past and they have very comperable prices. The reason I didn't go with Onlinetires again was they weren't stocking the sizes I wanted for the rear yet, only the front. Both company's were real easy to work with.
As for the main strenghths, I will speak of only the T1-s as I have yet to try the T1-r.. I feel they wear nicely, have a decently quiet ride, are pretty inexpensive in realitive terms, although thats subjective and they hook good. I really enjoy this tire at Bandimere, although it is not designed as a drag tire. I just find that it hooks much better then the Bridgestones, rarely do they break traction at the drag strip unless they are worn like my old set. I also feel they performed excellent on the days we had track days, plenty of grip for me.
Sorry, I don't give you all the technical jargon of the more experienced guys here. To me they just feel good and I like them, and to me thats mostly what matters.
Mudd
As for the main strenghths, I will speak of only the T1-s as I have yet to try the T1-r.. I feel they wear nicely, have a decently quiet ride, are pretty inexpensive in realitive terms, although thats subjective and they hook good. I really enjoy this tire at Bandimere, although it is not designed as a drag tire. I just find that it hooks much better then the Bridgestones, rarely do they break traction at the drag strip unless they are worn like my old set. I also feel they performed excellent on the days we had track days, plenty of grip for me.
Sorry, I don't give you all the technical jargon of the more experienced guys here. To me they just feel good and I like them, and to me thats mostly what matters.
Mudd
Dave and Brian: Thanks for the information, reviews, and help. This is such a better way to get information in the local forum from you guys than posting on the Wheels and Supension Section. I actually think I'm sold on the T1-R's. It seems that my revised buying factors are cost and application. From what I hear too is that the T1-R have a stiffer sidewall than the T1-S. I'll stick with the Pilot Sports on the front and replace them with my slightly used Potenza's when they wear out. When the Potenza's wear our 1000 miles later I'll replace them too. I really hate to be on a budget with the tires and would like to match them as a set, but I'm still living the life of a poor college student, sans college.
Craig: I've only seen extra cooling systems made for the engine oil and power steering fluid. I don't know how related the temperatures between them are, but maybe cooling one would help out the transmission temperature. Similarly, my "freer flowing" exhaust seemed to lower the overall temperature of the engine. Pardon my dumb question, does the transmission fluid flow? If is does, why not buy the Nismo Power steering cooler (or something similar) and some extra tubing and take the fluid on a slight detour. There's more to it, but I dunno.
David
Craig: I've only seen extra cooling systems made for the engine oil and power steering fluid. I don't know how related the temperatures between them are, but maybe cooling one would help out the transmission temperature. Similarly, my "freer flowing" exhaust seemed to lower the overall temperature of the engine. Pardon my dumb question, does the transmission fluid flow? If is does, why not buy the Nismo Power steering cooler (or something similar) and some extra tubing and take the fluid on a slight detour. There's more to it, but I dunno.
David
