Juztin

iTrader: (9)

Very nice Blake! Dibs on a ride when you get er tuned!

hr2burn

iTrader: (1)

Man, Sometime when your wrenchin' on that motor, I'd like to watch and learn for a short spell!!!
Sean

HiZ38Ds

Sean is this better?

hr2burn

iTrader: (1)

I KNEW it had something to do with MONSTER BOOBIES!!!

HiZ38Ds

Colorado S14

What is this about wrenching on monster boobies?

I will let you know when I am doing something cool Sean and you or anyone is free to stop by.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Take a look at the GT3071R from Garrett, with the .86 A/R Turbine. I imagine you already have a manifold that accepts a T3 flange if you're looking at T3/T04E hybrids. The 3071 is pretty bad *** for what you get. I'm actually going to punch up some numbers here and see if this works out as I think out loud. Figure 2.4L with a 7200rpm goal for max power, at 85% vE, 21 degree ambient temps - you're going to move almost 260 ft^3 of air. At a P/R of 2.0, you'll be moving 38.8 lbs of air. That's going to be 14.7 psi of boost just for starters. With the GT3071R, that will put you at 72% compressor efficiency. That's good, especially when you figure you'll hit full boost at about half that rpm range, so at 3800 rpm you should be at full boost and that will put you at 20.5 lbs of air at a compressor efficiency of 76%. You'll actually hit a compressor efficiency of 80% (that's really damn good) from 4500- 6200 rpm on this turbo. Talk about a huge step up from that Mitsu 16G (or is it an 18G?) you got now. Much faster spool and way lower air temps with this turbo. If you run more psi, you'll stay about the same on the compressor map up to a Pressure Ratio of 2.5, or 22 psi. Plenty of room to work with here. Of course, if you're set on a T3/T04E hybrid, Turboneticas offers them with water cooled ball bearing center sections now as well. I think for just a little more money you'll get better performance and lower temps from a GT series. They're not nearly as expensive as they used to be. Around an even 1000 for the GT3071R I believe. In any case, happy hunting. Please don't be offended at me running some numbers here for you. I know that you know what you're doing, I'm just throwing out ideas. Can't wait to get a ride no matter what route you go. Later,
Will

Robert_K

iTrader: (25)

Will... Build my car!!! You have crazy knowledge!

Colorado S14

Thanks for the help Will. You and I get very slightly different numbers due to what I imagine is probably in the way that we are calculating our psia values. I am using a absoloute value of 12.5 to factor in our altitude. You also have to account for absoloute pressure loss due to MAF and intake elements, and account for the pressure loss across the intercooler. I have actually calculated this all out and here is some of my information. Using what I expect my pump gas limit boost pressure to be (20psi) with full boost right at 4000rpms and 10psi. at 3000rpms here is the map I plotted with my cars specific air density. This is using the GT3076R instead of the 71 because the turbine housing supplied on the 71 is an internal gated setup and I want external with a V-Band discharge.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Your calculations are more accurate, I was working with the computer calculator and some basic formulas I know in my head. To do it right I use this site and plug in all the data I have:
http://not2fast.com/turbo/glossary/turbo_calc.shtml
I obviously don't know what intercooler you're going with, pipe dimension, cams, or anything else, so I guessed 85% volumetric efficiency and left pressure drop accross the plumbing and intercooler alone. That site will calculate everything however, and is handy to use. I never take altitude into effect, just always plan for sea level and work from there. I won't alway be in CO, ya know?
I like the 3076 as well. There are companies that sell an external GT3071R with the 740902-2 Turbine section. It uses the .82 A/R in place of the .86 in the internal wastegated version. I can understand wanting an external gate, but internals don't suck anymore. Hell, even NISMO uses internal gates on their IHI turbos on the GT500 VQ30. Either turbo flows well and has water cooled center sections. The 71 just has better compressor efficiency. The 76 moves more air, however and for 20psi will benefit from the larger 84 trim turbine section. Great choises either way.
Damn, I'm excited to see how this comes out. Are you going to clean out your engine bay as well? I know you talked about getting as much stuff out of there as possible to clean it out a bit and have just the engine in there. We're doing that with my friend's 240 now that there are no longer emmission tests. Painted the bay and it looks tons better. So many options for you with that car. I'm jealous.
Will

Colorado S14

WHAT! no emissions tests where? I am going to yank all of the OBDII stuff out during the build and clean it up a ton. I asked today at an emissions center and it looks like an inability to connect to the ECU through the OBD port is not a fail condition, which is great . You definately get a ride Will.


UPDATE: looked online and my county still has them........:angry:

Colorado S14

Here is the current turbo that i am running. You can see that compared to my current turbo the 3076R is very similar when looking at efficiency at 20psi. The big difference is in the speed of the compressor wheel. The 3076R is spining about 20,000 rpm less, this means less heat and even though the compressor efficiency is similar I figure more power due to reduced intake charge temps. The other thing to notice is that it will have a higher boost threshold due to more headroom in compressor speeds.

bamyi

iTrader: (2)

ahhh...can't wait to see it back on the road again.

GaryM05

Nice pics...I had forgotten what dry roads looked like (and the car looks good, too.)

Mudd

iTrader: (2)

I often think about how smart I am............that is until I show up in a room when Will and Blake are together............then I feel quite inadequate. Damn you guys are smart.

Mudd

Robert_K

iTrader: (25)

At least we know guys like this that can help us out and teach us.

gargoyleZ

iTrader: (4)

here's mine..400HP to the wheels, OEM bottom end. GL with your build bro'.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I am surprised at the 20G's map. I would have never guessed such an old turbo to be in the 77% range. No wonder the TD06 series is still being used by the DSM crowd. But as you said, the lower compressor speed will help with keeping your charge cooler. The turbine section has always been more important than the compressor anyway, siince that's what will determine your threshhold and lag time. The GT should out do the Mitsu in every way on the turbine. What A/R are you thinking of running with the 76? The .82 still flows like 24lbs and would be more responsive than the 1.06, but I've never seen a GT3076R on a 2.4L so it's tough to say for sure what you'd need. I know the 3071 on a small .64 A/R turbine wheel (a bit of a mismatch if you ask me) is popular with SR's and turns 400whp with cams and manifolds. On a 2L it hits full song right at 4000rpm. Same dyno results with the smaller GT2871R using the .86 A/R turbine (much better match imo). Both of these max out on the turbine at around 20lbs and keep making power until 7500rpm even up to 22psi. After that, the turbine is choking to much flow. The .82 A/R on the 3076 you're looking at flows around 24lbs easy. Makes me wonder if you could do the .63 for the best response, it flows about 21-22 lbs, and even with 2.4L breathing on it you might not choke it out before you hit 7000rpm.
Again, you have so many options. I love inline 4's. So easy to work on with so many choices for power compared to wrenching the VQ. Makes me start thinking of a 2800lb Z with an SR in the front.
Can't wait for that ride in this beast, Blake. It's going to be mean.
Will

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to hear about emissions. I though it was all over CO, but I guess it's just El Paso county and Colorado Springs. We yanked out so much crap from the S13. It's amazing the difference all that emission control equipment has on the engine bay. The place looks cleaner, easier to get around in, and less stuff to fail and trip a code.
Will

Colorado S14

I am going to go with a .82 housing just because of the altitude causing me to run a higher pressure ratio to achieve the same MAP levels as a car at sea level. That is the tough part about up here, you have to push a turbo more to make sea level power and due to the atmospheric pressure loss you have more lag, but you have to still run a larger turbine which only makes it worse. If I lived in Cali I would run a .6x turbine and still make over 400 to the wheels.