So Cal 350 Z Club stickers......
04-15-2004, 11:18 PM
#41
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We've come to the crossroads
Hmmmmmmm.....
It's too bad that it's come to this.
After reading through this entire thread I thought really hard about what exactly I wanted to say. I don't want to offend anyone, but I must express my feelings on this.
As Wedge stated, I clicked on this thread with the intention of having the opporunity to get some club stickers, but as I read on, it went downhill real fast. Last time I checked, this thread was viewed 340 times, yet there is less than 10% who responded which either means that those who read didn't care, or didn't have a problem. I'd like to think the later.
I have met a lot of great people at the "club" events and I think it's just really sad that things have gotten so petty. I have gotten to know Ron over the last few months and one thing that I have learned is that he makes things hapen. He is not one to sit by and wait for things to get done. He is a Leader, which is why I voted for him as the Club President. He has already organized, planned, and funded some Awesome events, but all that I have read are complaints. He has done a great job so far and I am very confident that he will continue this trend in the future.
We have/had a website which began as my own personal website. Perhaps the name was not what some of you wanted, but as I had stated before, the name is not what's important. The content of the site is what's important, but unfortunately most simply could not see past the name. When I started the thread about the new club website the very first response was about changing the name. Then when I asked for you all to send pictures for the site, do you know how many responses I got? One.
(Thanks, Pat)
For a club to exist, it must have support and enthusiasm from it's members. They have to want to be part of something special, but at the same time, they cannot sit back and watch things happen around then. They have to be willing to get their hands dirty from time to time and help out. I know that Lysa organized the BBQ a couple weeks ago and although I wasn't able to attend, I have heard (and read) from several people how cool it was. This is the type of committment and participation that a club needs in order to surive and grow.
Personally, I stand by Ron in whatever he decides to do with the club and I can only hope that everyone else will too.
With that said... Ron, I'll take two 8" silver stickers please.
-Chris
It's too bad that it's come to this.
After reading through this entire thread I thought really hard about what exactly I wanted to say. I don't want to offend anyone, but I must express my feelings on this.
As Wedge stated, I clicked on this thread with the intention of having the opporunity to get some club stickers, but as I read on, it went downhill real fast. Last time I checked, this thread was viewed 340 times, yet there is less than 10% who responded which either means that those who read didn't care, or didn't have a problem. I'd like to think the later.
I have met a lot of great people at the "club" events and I think it's just really sad that things have gotten so petty. I have gotten to know Ron over the last few months and one thing that I have learned is that he makes things hapen. He is not one to sit by and wait for things to get done. He is a Leader, which is why I voted for him as the Club President. He has already organized, planned, and funded some Awesome events, but all that I have read are complaints. He has done a great job so far and I am very confident that he will continue this trend in the future.
We have/had a website which began as my own personal website. Perhaps the name was not what some of you wanted, but as I had stated before, the name is not what's important. The content of the site is what's important, but unfortunately most simply could not see past the name. When I started the thread about the new club website the very first response was about changing the name. Then when I asked for you all to send pictures for the site, do you know how many responses I got? One.
(Thanks, Pat)For a club to exist, it must have support and enthusiasm from it's members. They have to want to be part of something special, but at the same time, they cannot sit back and watch things happen around then. They have to be willing to get their hands dirty from time to time and help out. I know that Lysa organized the BBQ a couple weeks ago and although I wasn't able to attend, I have heard (and read) from several people how cool it was. This is the type of committment and participation that a club needs in order to surive and grow.
Personally, I stand by Ron in whatever he decides to do with the club and I can only hope that everyone else will too.
With that said... Ron, I'll take two 8" silver stickers please.
-Chris
04-15-2004, 11:19 PM
#42
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Originally posted by Wedge
Well, who would have thought that an offer of club stickers would lead to the demise of the SoCal 350Z club as we know it? Quite frankly, it boggles the mind.
Many members may have passed over this thread, not knowing the ramifications it has had. After all, it was just a sticker thread.
Of the 150 members, less than 10 have expressed disappointment in this thread with regard to the leadership and direction that Ron has taken the club. This of course may simply be due to the rest of the members not seeing the thread, or it could be that other dissatisfied members have not seen fit to chastise Ron in a public forum. More than likely though, I think the "Silent Majority" have no problem at all with the club as it is and have simply chosen not to comment.
***less than 10 expressed possibly as you mentioned, they did not see the thread, and possibly some just are not comfortable expressing their views. Most do it in private discussions amongst other members, as I have heard. So I do not think the silent majority has no problem, many have not shared their opinions. Nobody is chastising Ron...we are voicing OPINIONS!***
The escalation of the differences of opinion was rapid, interupted only by a discertation as to a club being a democracy, a dinner date confirmation, a statement regarding getting older and then a few comments concerning the fact that a lot of men would like to see one woman bite another. I tried diffusing the direction of the thread by interjecting a sticker comment........but obviously to no avail.
***why even bring "the differences of opinion was rapid....etc.....", up if there is no relevance to the subject of "supposed dissention" amongst members. So the topic got off track, we all also use this board to communicate with one another.***
The name of the club on the sticker started this. Yes, a name change has been suggested in the past. New names have been proposed over the months, but I do not think a concensus was reached on any of them. Some of the names were cute, some too cute, some would have been embarrassing to older members and some would have been embarrassing to younger members. The fact is that most (but not all) car clubs have two things in common regarding the name........the type of vehicle and the location of the club . This is what we had.
***yes, we had a name, but many were not satisfied with it, and a vote was never taken. That was a complaint of many members also.***
Another suggestion was that we vote on all things pertaining to the club. I do not want to have to wait to see how the vote turns out before knowing the plan. I prefer to see the plan, then make my decision as to whether or not the function is one that I wish to attend.
***that's why there should be a vote. Offer us "X", and vote to see who is for, and who is against idea "X". That's how it should work.***
So far I have been very pleased with the events planned by Ron. Additonally, events planned by other members such as Lysa's cook out were great ideas. Did anyone vote on that? I would have attended the cook out if I had not been in Atlanta that weekend. The point is that someone has to make a decision as to what the event is, then the vote is taken simply by how many commit to attend the event. This is when your democratic choice comes in......you are not forced to attend anything, nor are you penalized for not attending. Someone once said " A commitee is twelve people doing the work of one".
***There was no reason for a vote, as it was did not pertain to a Z meeting agenda. It was a social gathering. It is your choice to attend or not. But other club agenda items will/should require a vote of all members, i.e. club name, when to have meetings, how often a club newsletter shoud be put out, or whether there even should be a club newsletter, whats should go in the newsletter, etc.***
I have been in leadership roles for most of my life. It is not always fun. If you wish to be in a club with a leader, then let him or her lead. If you do not like the structure of an official club with a leader, then don't join it. There is an old business saying " I can't give you a formula for success, but I can give you one for failure......try to please everyone" This holds true in any type of organization.
***people want to have a leader, but have one who will listen to their opinions, take them into consideration, and have a vote on whateevr issue may come up. Not a leader who will make every decision for everyone. (and I am not saying that is what was happening, I am just making a statement about everyone wanted their views heard, taken into consideration, and the right to vote on issues) Otherwise I don't think it can work. Not everyone is a follower***
I know we all appreciate the zest and vigor, the time and energy and of course the hard work and personal funds that Ron and Nora have expended for the meets and events we have had in the past. Whether we agree or disagree with Ron's philosophy, we must all agree that he has never lacked in his enthusiasm for the club. I for one have absolutely no issues with Ron, the name of the club or the events I have attended. I enjoyed the events a lot. The organization of the events is what got the people to attend and the people who attended are what made the event enjoyable for me.
***At the Duarte meet I had suggested that all members pay dues to make sure there was money in the club. Which is normal, as most clubs ask for dues for fees they will incurr to hold a party, order pizza for a meeting, buy paper for the club news letter, etc. My idea was vetoed point blank by Ron himself. I thought it was a good idea to ensure the club would have funds. Then a little later, Ron had mentioned that only $51.00 was donated to the club, etc. Well the idea of dues was brought up, and vetoed immediately. Had we all had to pay a small fee, this would not be an issue.***
Chris Cagle has taken a lot of heat over the name of his website which he generously donated for use by the SoCal 350Z Club. This site existed for Chris' personal use and he chose the name he did for the site for himself. He is a 350Z Freak! He loves his car. Just because the URL of the site is not something you like, do not lose sight of the fact that Chris graciously let our club use his site, thereby saving the expense of getting our own. Additionally, Chris volunteered his time to build and update the club information. How can anyone not appreciate the generosity shown by Chris? I certainly do......regardless of the site name.
***no one is saying they don't appreciate all Ron's work, effort, and enthusiasm. And no one is saying they don't appreciate the use of Chris' site. But your views are not necessarily the views of all other members. That's all....***
It is my intention to stick with Ron if I am invited to join the new club. I sincerely hope that we do not lose a single member. I spoke to a lot of people at both the shoot at Ron's gun club and also the Performance Meet. Each and every conversation was enjoyable to me. Lots of great people.
***yes, there are lots of great people, and nobody is saying anything bad about Ron in any way. People just want to be able to be heard, without being shut down. They want their opinions to matter, not have everything decided for them. Why is this being blown to such grandiose extreme proportions? Nobody wants to leave the group, or lose out on the club, nobody is saying that! Everyone wants a voice, that's all!***
Finally, in response to Ron's question.....I would like two silver stickers.
Well, who would have thought that an offer of club stickers would lead to the demise of the SoCal 350Z club as we know it? Quite frankly, it boggles the mind.
Many members may have passed over this thread, not knowing the ramifications it has had. After all, it was just a sticker thread.
Of the 150 members, less than 10 have expressed disappointment in this thread with regard to the leadership and direction that Ron has taken the club. This of course may simply be due to the rest of the members not seeing the thread, or it could be that other dissatisfied members have not seen fit to chastise Ron in a public forum. More than likely though, I think the "Silent Majority" have no problem at all with the club as it is and have simply chosen not to comment.
***less than 10 expressed possibly as you mentioned, they did not see the thread, and possibly some just are not comfortable expressing their views. Most do it in private discussions amongst other members, as I have heard. So I do not think the silent majority has no problem, many have not shared their opinions. Nobody is chastising Ron...we are voicing OPINIONS!***
The escalation of the differences of opinion was rapid, interupted only by a discertation as to a club being a democracy, a dinner date confirmation, a statement regarding getting older and then a few comments concerning the fact that a lot of men would like to see one woman bite another. I tried diffusing the direction of the thread by interjecting a sticker comment........but obviously to no avail.
***why even bring "the differences of opinion was rapid....etc.....", up if there is no relevance to the subject of "supposed dissention" amongst members. So the topic got off track, we all also use this board to communicate with one another.***
The name of the club on the sticker started this. Yes, a name change has been suggested in the past. New names have been proposed over the months, but I do not think a concensus was reached on any of them. Some of the names were cute, some too cute, some would have been embarrassing to older members and some would have been embarrassing to younger members. The fact is that most (but not all) car clubs have two things in common regarding the name........the type of vehicle and the location of the club . This is what we had.
***yes, we had a name, but many were not satisfied with it, and a vote was never taken. That was a complaint of many members also.***
Another suggestion was that we vote on all things pertaining to the club. I do not want to have to wait to see how the vote turns out before knowing the plan. I prefer to see the plan, then make my decision as to whether or not the function is one that I wish to attend.
***that's why there should be a vote. Offer us "X", and vote to see who is for, and who is against idea "X". That's how it should work.***
So far I have been very pleased with the events planned by Ron. Additonally, events planned by other members such as Lysa's cook out were great ideas. Did anyone vote on that? I would have attended the cook out if I had not been in Atlanta that weekend. The point is that someone has to make a decision as to what the event is, then the vote is taken simply by how many commit to attend the event. This is when your democratic choice comes in......you are not forced to attend anything, nor are you penalized for not attending. Someone once said " A commitee is twelve people doing the work of one".
***There was no reason for a vote, as it was did not pertain to a Z meeting agenda. It was a social gathering. It is your choice to attend or not. But other club agenda items will/should require a vote of all members, i.e. club name, when to have meetings, how often a club newsletter shoud be put out, or whether there even should be a club newsletter, whats should go in the newsletter, etc.***
I have been in leadership roles for most of my life. It is not always fun. If you wish to be in a club with a leader, then let him or her lead. If you do not like the structure of an official club with a leader, then don't join it. There is an old business saying " I can't give you a formula for success, but I can give you one for failure......try to please everyone" This holds true in any type of organization.
***people want to have a leader, but have one who will listen to their opinions, take them into consideration, and have a vote on whateevr issue may come up. Not a leader who will make every decision for everyone. (and I am not saying that is what was happening, I am just making a statement about everyone wanted their views heard, taken into consideration, and the right to vote on issues) Otherwise I don't think it can work. Not everyone is a follower***
I know we all appreciate the zest and vigor, the time and energy and of course the hard work and personal funds that Ron and Nora have expended for the meets and events we have had in the past. Whether we agree or disagree with Ron's philosophy, we must all agree that he has never lacked in his enthusiasm for the club. I for one have absolutely no issues with Ron, the name of the club or the events I have attended. I enjoyed the events a lot. The organization of the events is what got the people to attend and the people who attended are what made the event enjoyable for me.
***At the Duarte meet I had suggested that all members pay dues to make sure there was money in the club. Which is normal, as most clubs ask for dues for fees they will incurr to hold a party, order pizza for a meeting, buy paper for the club news letter, etc. My idea was vetoed point blank by Ron himself. I thought it was a good idea to ensure the club would have funds. Then a little later, Ron had mentioned that only $51.00 was donated to the club, etc. Well the idea of dues was brought up, and vetoed immediately. Had we all had to pay a small fee, this would not be an issue.***
Chris Cagle has taken a lot of heat over the name of his website which he generously donated for use by the SoCal 350Z Club. This site existed for Chris' personal use and he chose the name he did for the site for himself. He is a 350Z Freak! He loves his car. Just because the URL of the site is not something you like, do not lose sight of the fact that Chris graciously let our club use his site, thereby saving the expense of getting our own. Additionally, Chris volunteered his time to build and update the club information. How can anyone not appreciate the generosity shown by Chris? I certainly do......regardless of the site name.
***no one is saying they don't appreciate all Ron's work, effort, and enthusiasm. And no one is saying they don't appreciate the use of Chris' site. But your views are not necessarily the views of all other members. That's all....***
It is my intention to stick with Ron if I am invited to join the new club. I sincerely hope that we do not lose a single member. I spoke to a lot of people at both the shoot at Ron's gun club and also the Performance Meet. Each and every conversation was enjoyable to me. Lots of great people.
***yes, there are lots of great people, and nobody is saying anything bad about Ron in any way. People just want to be able to be heard, without being shut down. They want their opinions to matter, not have everything decided for them. Why is this being blown to such grandiose extreme proportions? Nobody wants to leave the group, or lose out on the club, nobody is saying that! Everyone wants a voice, that's all!***
Finally, in response to Ron's question.....I would like two silver stickers.
04-15-2004, 11:29 PM
#43
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Originally posted by hfm
Damn it Ron, don't do this.
You have amazing skills at organizing things. But, you are horrible when it comes to dealing with with accepting what's being said by members on this forum when it's not what you want to hear.
If that is your final word, fine. But, making it a all or nothing situtation never works out unless you're ready for the nothing.
This thread never should have turned out into what it is now. I still believe that the club should remain open to further development and member's opinions must be taken into consideration. Everything covered here should be discussed at the next meeting.
If you can't accept that, then, coming from the guy who nominated you into the interim president position, I will withdraw from that nomination. And, as you should be aware, So. Cal. Z owners who have enjoyed each others company, with or without a club, will continue to enjoy each others company.
Please reconsider your position.
Dan
Damn it Ron, don't do this.
You have amazing skills at organizing things. But, you are horrible when it comes to dealing with with accepting what's being said by members on this forum when it's not what you want to hear.
If that is your final word, fine. But, making it a all or nothing situtation never works out unless you're ready for the nothing.
This thread never should have turned out into what it is now. I still believe that the club should remain open to further development and member's opinions must be taken into consideration. Everything covered here should be discussed at the next meeting.
If you can't accept that, then, coming from the guy who nominated you into the interim president position, I will withdraw from that nomination. And, as you should be aware, So. Cal. Z owners who have enjoyed each others company, with or without a club, will continue to enjoy each others company.
Please reconsider your position.
Dan
Wow, how ugly for such a seemingly menial subject as having a voice, and wanting a vote.
Yes, anyone who has become friends will continue to share those friendships no matter what. Meets and events will be organized by PM from now on I guess. But I sincerely don't think anybody wants to lose out on the club.
04-15-2004, 11:46 PM
#44
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Chris / Wedge:
Did you guys read the same thread that I did? People were offering suggesstion, ideas - wanting to get involved in the direction/purpose, heck even something as basic as the name of the club. The thread wasn't going downhill, unless downhill can be defined as anything that you do not agree with.
As for why people may not have posted, you guys seemed to dismiss one very likely possiblity - history told them that someone was going to take the sharing of ideas as 'questioning authority', and they chose to avoid the confrontation.
So the result of all this is that the same forum that gave birth to this car club, is now giving birth to another car club, except this one is 'private'. I thought having a Z and living in So Cal was already making the previous club almost too exclusive.
Oh well. I've heard people can have fun even if they do not have matching stickers on their cars.
Best wishes to all Z car owners, those in private clubs, and those who are not. It's all about the people anyway.....and, yes...gotta love them Z's too!
Did you guys read the same thread that I did? People were offering suggesstion, ideas - wanting to get involved in the direction/purpose, heck even something as basic as the name of the club. The thread wasn't going downhill, unless downhill can be defined as anything that you do not agree with.
As for why people may not have posted, you guys seemed to dismiss one very likely possiblity - history told them that someone was going to take the sharing of ideas as 'questioning authority', and they chose to avoid the confrontation.
So the result of all this is that the same forum that gave birth to this car club, is now giving birth to another car club, except this one is 'private'. I thought having a Z and living in So Cal was already making the previous club almost too exclusive.
Oh well. I've heard people can have fun even if they do not have matching stickers on their cars.
Best wishes to all Z car owners, those in private clubs, and those who are not. It's all about the people anyway.....and, yes...gotta love them Z's too!
04-15-2004, 11:55 PM
#45
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Luv Mntrl....Thanks for your intelligent and well thought out rebuttal to my post. I respect each of your thoughts on the issues. As you said, you were giving your opinion. I was doing the same.
By privatizing the club he started, Ron is giving an opinion also.
By privatizing the club he started, Ron is giving an opinion also.
04-16-2004, 12:20 AM
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Scafremon......Yep, if this is the thread you are talking about, I am pretty sure we read the same one. I suppose, depending on your viewpoints and beliefs, people see things differently even though they are reading the same text. If they agree with the posts, then the post is good, if they disagree with the post, then the post is bad. If the thread skews in the direction you want, then the thread is going uphill. If it skews in the direction you don't want, then the thread is going downhill.
You asked if I considered a thread going downhill if I didn't agree with it. I suppose that is true to some extent. But based on that, and since you did not think the tread was going downhill, then that means that you too base thread direction on whether or not you agree with it.
It is simply the opinion of the reader that dictates what is taken from the text of the writer.
I do agree that you can have fun without a sticker on your windshield. I have not had a sticker at any event thus far and have indeed had fun.........the stickers were meant simply to identify the vehicles of club members while at events. Nothing more.
You asked if I considered a thread going downhill if I didn't agree with it. I suppose that is true to some extent. But based on that, and since you did not think the tread was going downhill, then that means that you too base thread direction on whether or not you agree with it.
It is simply the opinion of the reader that dictates what is taken from the text of the writer.
I do agree that you can have fun without a sticker on your windshield. I have not had a sticker at any event thus far and have indeed had fun.........the stickers were meant simply to identify the vehicles of club members while at events. Nothing more.
04-16-2004, 01:54 AM
#47
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I'm not sure I agree with all that Wedge, but I do now agree with you that this thread is going downhill. My bad.
Just another comment or two, and then I think the caffeine will be out of my system.
As for the assumptions that the limited number of actual posts might mean that people don't care about the issues raised, it could be because they just didn't want to post a 'me too' or an 'I agree'. And I don't see how it would have mattered if 50 people had expressed the same feelings - it only took a handful to disband the club.
A sorry result of what has happened here is that a few people were, in essence, booted out of the club for expressing their thoughts. Maybe they will be welcomed back into the new club that is forming, but if so, what was the point in disbanding the club in the first place? The differences in opinion (if there were any) could just as easily have been discussed.
A positive result is that now people have a bit more of an understanding of what is expected of them in the club. Like you mentioned before, you review the plan, and then make a decision on whether the plan is for you or not. If there is something good to come out of this mess today then I think this is it.
Lastly, I'm wondering how the long the new club is going to last. I just saw someone made a suggesstion for the club in that thread.
My bad.Just another comment or two, and then I think the caffeine will be out of my system.
As for the assumptions that the limited number of actual posts might mean that people don't care about the issues raised, it could be because they just didn't want to post a 'me too' or an 'I agree'. And I don't see how it would have mattered if 50 people had expressed the same feelings - it only took a handful to disband the club.
A sorry result of what has happened here is that a few people were, in essence, booted out of the club for expressing their thoughts. Maybe they will be welcomed back into the new club that is forming, but if so, what was the point in disbanding the club in the first place? The differences in opinion (if there were any) could just as easily have been discussed.
A positive result is that now people have a bit more of an understanding of what is expected of them in the club. Like you mentioned before, you review the plan, and then make a decision on whether the plan is for you or not. If there is something good to come out of this mess today then I think this is it.
Lastly, I'm wondering how the long the new club is going to last. I just saw someone made a suggesstion for the club in that thread.
04-16-2004, 04:35 AM
#48
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You know after the first meeting in January at Performance I thought to myself this can't work, but give it a chance. Ok we've come to the divide in the road where I thought we would be at . Better now then years later ,like a divorce. Very few at this point have any time or money invested in the original club. so nobody is out anything.
As for the New Organization I think we'll get by. Out of the ashes of the old club will be a New organization run more like a business. No more beggin for help for me we'll simple hire and pay for what we need.
Major things will be in store for the new members.
As for the New Organization I think we'll get by. Out of the ashes of the old club will be a New organization run more like a business. No more beggin for help for me we'll simple hire and pay for what we need.
Major things will be in store for the new members.
04-16-2004, 08:26 AM
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Well, I just got finished reading this tread and feel that it is shame it headed the way it did.
The idea of new club is fine, but by having it private, many Z owners that would normally be involved in an open type club will be left out. There are already so many Z forums and there is GroupZ in SoCal, one more Z club just might make it harder for Z owners to meet. I have had my Z since they first came out have always enjoyed meeting everyone on the drives and meets that I have attended. This site has always been a great place for information and the SoCal section is the most active of all the regional forums, and in a sense has been it's own club.
But, I am sure that Ron has some good ideas for the club and look forward to seeing them.
Let's hope that no matter if a Z owner is in a private club or not, we can all get along, no more
The idea of new club is fine, but by having it private, many Z owners that would normally be involved in an open type club will be left out. There are already so many Z forums and there is GroupZ in SoCal, one more Z club just might make it harder for Z owners to meet. I have had my Z since they first came out have always enjoyed meeting everyone on the drives and meets that I have attended. This site has always been a great place for information and the SoCal section is the most active of all the regional forums, and in a sense has been it's own club.
But, I am sure that Ron has some good ideas for the club and look forward to seeing them.
Let's hope that no matter if a Z owner is in a private club or not, we can all get along, no more
04-16-2004, 08:29 AM
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HA HA...its not a fight...It's more of a disagreement..
I say we agree to DISAGREE...I think this was blown way out of porportion..But oh well..who am I to say anything? my opinion, to SOME people, doesnt matter....
Lysa
PS, I dont hold grudges unless you really F*** me over, and no one here has done that...so for now, to ME, I have no hard feelings towards anyone...
I say we agree to DISAGREE...I think this was blown way out of porportion..But oh well..who am I to say anything? my opinion, to SOME people, doesnt matter....
Lysa
PS, I dont hold grudges unless you really F*** me over, and no one here has done that...so for now, to ME, I have no hard feelings towards anyone...
04-16-2004, 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Wedge
Luv Mntrl....Thanks for your intelligent and well thought out rebuttal to my post. I respect each of your thoughts on the issues. As you said, you were giving your opinion. I was doing the same.
By privatizing the club he started, Ron is giving an opinion also.
Luv Mntrl....Thanks for your intelligent and well thought out rebuttal to my post. I respect each of your thoughts on the issues. As you said, you were giving your opinion. I was doing the same.
By privatizing the club he started, Ron is giving an opinion also.
But nobody is looking to privatize any club. I think I speak for many that we all want to be part of the same club/group, and have Ron leading the way. But most people feel they need and want to be heard openly. Have their ideas taken into consideration, and voted upon. Nobody wants what has escalated into this ugly mess now. It seems so childish, excuse my form of statement. Nobody is looking to rebel and break away to start their own group. That is not what this was all about. But it has come to this unfortunately. Ron has taken it all personally, but it was never meant to be taken in that way. Constructive criticism, and voicing of opionins and collective minds. The same way government is run. Opposing parties disagree, but the chief listens and everyone casts a vote. Sounds simple to me. I hope it can be resolved, and everyone can just sit back, be heard, listen to one another, and move on from this debaucle.
If not and this "privatization" goes on, then many will not be around I assume, which is pretty sad to say the least.
04-16-2004, 10:15 AM
#52
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Wow, this got suprisingly out of scope.
Ron, I'm sorry you took everyone's comments so personally. But I think you guys should consider listening to people's concerns and at least recognizing them rather than booting them out of a club for voicing them. That's really not fair at all.
I'm confident that everyone who posted concerns is ready to roll up their sleeves and get to work, but it's not quite fair to tell these same people to shut up or get out. As said before, we're not sheep -- nor are we building pyramids.
Who's going to want to pay dues to a club and have no voice on how it's spent? Unfortunately I think the terms club and team have lost it's meaning here.
Ron, I'm sorry you took everyone's comments so personally. But I think you guys should consider listening to people's concerns and at least recognizing them rather than booting them out of a club for voicing them. That's really not fair at all.
I'm confident that everyone who posted concerns is ready to roll up their sleeves and get to work, but it's not quite fair to tell these same people to shut up or get out. As said before, we're not sheep -- nor are we building pyramids.
Who's going to want to pay dues to a club and have no voice on how it's spent? Unfortunately I think the terms club and team have lost it's meaning here.
04-16-2004, 11:26 AM
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I guess the "my way or the highway" stance that he took early on finally came to a close....Sad that he took the latter....Sad to see him go........Hopefully he will listen to other members on the Hearst Castle thing or at other events and he will come back...We shall see....
Lysa
Lysa
04-16-2004, 11:34 AM
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this is sad to see how a unified group has crumbled but hopefully a new and stronger group will emerge. Like it was mentioned before it's not the car that makes good friends it's the people.
04-17-2004, 05:57 AM
#57
Originally posted by Mr Twisted
Dan I started this club with Myself and Nora .... I think we can get by....Thanks for your concern.
Dan I started this club with Myself and Nora .... I think we can get by....Thanks for your concern.
However, I don't think you recognize that a lot of So. Cal. club members were buds and were doing things together a year before you even regististered on this forum. So, I point out that you started something but, you overlook the fact that something started far earlier when many of us became friends before you appeared. A club is only as strong as the people involved. And, our earlier friendships was what gave the So. Cal. club such a strong backbone. I'll add that I didn't realize the extent of this strength until I saw responses on another thread and, in particular, from Jeffa. So, it's easy to see how something so intangible could be overlooked.
I trust that you will allow people who don't want to be labeled or are neutral with this mess, to participate with your private club and elsewhere. If that's not the case then, you will have succeeded in dividing a good group of people.
Best wishes to you and Nora with your private club and thanks for all your past work.
Dan
04-17-2004, 10:31 AM
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Ron:
You may have started a "Club", and I don't doubt or challenge you organizational skills.
However, the group that you call a club was here long before you were. I can remember doing a Lake Elsenore run in December of 2002 with 12 people, most of which are still here and are part of the basis for the So Cal 350Z group. We met at another members house to hang out, bought pizza's and beer, ang generally had a great time. This is where I first met hfm and most of the others that still make this group great.
Ron, it takes more than organizational skills to make a 'Club". What it really takes is mutual interests and friendships.
Nuff said...
You may have started a "Club", and I don't doubt or challenge you organizational skills.
However, the group that you call a club was here long before you were. I can remember doing a Lake Elsenore run in December of 2002 with 12 people, most of which are still here and are part of the basis for the So Cal 350Z group. We met at another members house to hang out, bought pizza's and beer, ang generally had a great time. This is where I first met hfm and most of the others that still make this group great.
Ron, it takes more than organizational skills to make a 'Club". What it really takes is mutual interests and friendships.
Nuff said...
04-17-2004, 11:22 AM
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Ron, you are proving to me how "small" of a person you are. I also withdraw my vote for your interim position as president. In Donald Trump's words... "YOU ARE FIRED".
***THE CLUB IS NOT DEAD***
Just because Mr. TwistedEgo says that he's done with it, does not mean that it's gone. I'm sure people will attend his "new private" club meetings and whatnot, but after reading what transpired here and really getting a feel for your personality, I doubt that people will regarded Ron with much respect.
You are a good organizer. Apparently, that is all you are. You are NOT a leader, because leaders are able to listen to suggestions and make appropriate changes. If you want to haver your private dictatorship with your own club, go for it. Call it whatever club name you want (without listening to members' suggestions) and you can play "GOD" all you want.
I will not be at any of your meetings, nor will I be feeding your ego.
By the way, Jeffa mentioned a good point. I planned and organized one of the first big meets titled "OC Mega Meet", and that is also where I met HFM Dan and many more. Ron, please don't come in here with the attitude that you started something great and it's over now.
The club remains open.
We just need a new president who can actually lead.
Personally, I believe this is the best move for our club so far.
Any nominations, people?
***THE CLUB IS NOT DEAD***
Just because Mr. TwistedEgo says that he's done with it, does not mean that it's gone. I'm sure people will attend his "new private" club meetings and whatnot, but after reading what transpired here and really getting a feel for your personality, I doubt that people will regarded Ron with much respect.
You are a good organizer. Apparently, that is all you are. You are NOT a leader, because leaders are able to listen to suggestions and make appropriate changes. If you want to haver your private dictatorship with your own club, go for it. Call it whatever club name you want (without listening to members' suggestions) and you can play "GOD" all you want.
I will not be at any of your meetings, nor will I be feeding your ego.
By the way, Jeffa mentioned a good point. I planned and organized one of the first big meets titled "OC Mega Meet", and that is also where I met HFM Dan and many more. Ron, please don't come in here with the attitude that you started something great and it's over now.
The club remains open.
We just need a new president who can actually lead.
Personally, I believe this is the best move for our club so far.
Any nominations, people?
04-17-2004, 01:48 PM
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Eric was also working on starting a club long time ago but due to timing was not able to get it going. I say Eric you bring that idea to fruition now and get this rolling.. Tell me where and when and i'll meet you up.