I completely understand why people are unsure about what they need to do to participate. I simply don’t think there is enough instruction. People need to know that they can ask questions, and that none of those questions are stupid, etc. I guess that's why I started this thread...I want to see what the limitations/concerns are, and if any of them are able to be broken down.

Time and money are definitely an issue. This is not a cheap hobby by a long stretch! In fact, it is probably one of the most expensive hobbies you can get into. Fortunately, it is also one of the most fun!

For the Z, car prep for the novice only needs to be mild. You will be perfectly fine driving on stock tires, and this is actually the preferred method (I also don’t believe you should be allowed to drive on race rubber until you’ve been “signed off” to do so either…too dangerous). If you aren’t sliding the car around on the tires, wear won’t be horrific. Regardless, used stock tires are cheap for these things. I see them up for sale in the classifieds all of the time. In fact, you can even pick up a set of used stock wheels with plenty of tread left on them for about $400 right now (seems to be the going price). JimRHIT, this could be a good short term solution until you have the funds to buy race wheels and tires. If you sell the stock wheels when you get your enkei’s, you can probably get $200 back on them if you take care of them. Divide that $200 for the rubber over the number of events you can get out of them, and you’re looking at a pretty low per event tire cost. (ps you are now learning how to justify track expenses to your wife, girlfriend, etc. ).

dnguyent and HFM,
Stock base model brakes are fine, but you should definitely swap in some good race pads and fluid. Stock pads shouldn’t even be considered. At some point, you will exceed the heat capacity of the system...you can try ducting first as well before stepping up to one of our BBK’s. The first step would be to try a setup like this (all available for purchase on our website and through our resellers):

Front Pads - Hawk Blue 9012 Race Pads
$130.00 - Item No. 63-450-0815
Rear Pads - Hawk HPS
$59.00 - Item No. 63-410-0905
Three bottles of this:
Motul RBF 600 High Performance Brake Fluid, 593 degrees F dry and 420 degrees F wet boiling points, DOT 4, 500ml Bottle
$15.00 - Item No. 68-000-1000
Total cost is creeping up on $250, but you will get a few of events out of the pads…spreading those costs over multiple events and days, I’d figure on probably $40 per day in terms of brake wear and related costs.
Gas is another $35 per day probably.\
Hotel is $35 per night.

 

I will see if any of the other SD people are interested in a lil' caravan to see one of the racedays. I'd especially like to come along in the car for a ride to see what the Z is capable of...would be really fun.
That sounds great¡Kas I said, I¡¦ll take anyone out for some laps that wants to go. ƒº

The thing is, most people here cannot afford to trash thier car, which makes you think ... "why would I track it if I know I wouldn't drive it all out" cause you have the looming fear of crashing.
You don¡¦t have to drive 10 10ths to have a good time out there. In fact, driving 7 10ths is enough to get a great thrill and still not stress over crashing. Even at 7 10ths you will still be far exceeding any sort of driving you can do safely on the street. When you drive at 7 10ths in the Z, you will still be hauling butt and getting a rush. Most people don¡¦t have any idea what the car they are driving is capable of. A pro driver in a minivan can scare the **** out of most people. Until you take the car to the track though, it¡¦s hard to comprehend this.


Not all of us can afford to do this regularly. Stock brakes are also an issue, and some don't have the time. And the canyon runs are great. They are also a good test for the car's ability, let alone the social aspect of it that allows us all to get together and sit to shoot the ***** for a bit. Haven't seen you at a run lately!!!

Hey girl! I would love to see you out at the track! In all honesty, I don¡¦t think the canyon runs are very much of a test for the Z¡¦s ability if you are driving in a sane manner. Sure you can see that the car turns well, stays reasonably flat through the curves, etc¡Kbut the canyons are way too dangerous to wail on the Z. When I drive the canyons, I¡¦m usually at about 4-5 10ths driving. It doesn¡¦t make sense to do any more than that. Again, this is one of those things where I can tell you this, but you need to experience it firsthand to understand. Driving hard on the street and on the track are VERY different thing if you are sane and don¡¦t want to die or go to jail. in fact, I usually don¡¦t even want to drive aggressively on the street anymore¡Kit¡¦s just not much fun because you really can¡¦t cut loose.
Track events are every bit as social as the canyon runs, if not more so! There are loads of dead time between run sessions (commonly 1 hour plus). You can hang out in the pits with your friends¡Kcheck out other types of cars and meet their owners¡Kdiscuss the track and the best way to get around it¡Khang and eat¡Kwatch other cars run. Also, the multi-day events are cool. You get to go out to dinner as a big group, have a beer, stay with new people at the hotel. Of course, everyone is talking cars the whole time¡Kit¡¦s a blast! Some of my current best friends back East (actually most of them) are people that I met at autoX or track events. It¡¦s the passion that you can relate to with these people, so everyone typically gets along great and has fun. ƒº
shmately,


I have never done a drift event, but it does look like fun. I think I¡¦m more of a grip driver at heart though, because I absolutely love going through the turns and braking hard.

 

1 important thing that you left off, is to upgraded your brake lines

 

Tracking a car puts signifcant stress, wear, and tear on your car...and that's the main reason I have been hesitant to go. I've done a dozen trackdays on my Ducati, becuase tracking a bike is way less stressful than tracking a car. The only thing I have to change is tires after about two track days...and I'm not putting hardly any wear and tear on the suspension, brakes, etc.

I'd be interesting in going...but probably not too regularaly, for fear of wearing out my car...particularly with F/I.

 

Having tracked my Z about 20 times, I'll add my $.02.

Our Z's are Sports Cars. They are MADE for the race track. It is the only SAFE place to utilize their capabilities..

I've run with a few different organizations, and I am most impressed with the Porsche Club of America events. They take tech VERY seriously! Also, their instructors have been great for me, a non-novice, but someone who still enjoys learning. I had my instructor from last year re-drive my Z a few weeks ago, and D*mn, if he didn't find a 2 second reduction from my best lap times.......yes, he was at 10.1 tenths!

I'll put a plug in for better brakes. There is no such thing as too much brake. It will be one less thing to worry about. The most work I do on my Z at the track is check tire pressures! But I do bleed my brakes before each event. OEM pads SHOULD get you through a 1st event, but the brake fluid needs to be upgraded to a race fluid, like Motul 600. I've cooked to well-done my 13.1" StopTechs, yet they still stop my Z on my last lap of my last session as well as the 1st lap!


BTW, passing Porsches is FUN!

 

Ahhhhhh...now those are some pretty hats on those rotors...that's what I like to see!

Thanks for the plug.

 

Funny story.......

After my instructor showed me what my Z is capable of in a full 25 minute session, passing a Porsche GT3 . we were ready to switch seats for the next session, and he said we should sit out a session to let my brakes cool.........I'm like WHY?

So we went right back out and I had NO problems with the brakes!


BTW, I use CarboTech Panther + pads & an N-Tech brake cooling duct kit.

I thought you'd like my hat!

 

J Ritt,
Very very well put with the correspondences!

Again, I'll blame it on the general lack of understanding of what an Open Track event is all about. Reading some of the responses here only reaffirms my stand on this matter. For those who have yet have the open track experience first hand or worse one's who have NOT been shown the proper way, it is too easy to automatically associate open track events as being high risk to the driver and attrition for the car and it's components. Yes, there's no doubt about it when you go ***** out at 10/10 and beyond for extended length of time. Even then, if you're car is not FI'd ... they will certainly hold it's own (much better than you'd think). In any case, no novice in their right mind should be trying to set the world record their first few times out, in which case the level of wear and tear is far less. It's like learning how to fly (another one of my hobbies). You just don't go out there soloing and performing barrel rolls on your first few days. It's unfortunately most of you only have the feedbacks from regular track junkies, the equivalent of listening to gruesome stories from war veterans. Who's going to want to join the army after hearing about limbs getting blown apart and buddies go MIA.

The fact of the matter is, when driven at the novice level (say up to 7-8/10 of full capability) a bone stock Z/G is more than capable to handle the task reliably. Tire wear will be above average and the brakes will be just enough to get by. I do have to agree the brakes are indeed the weak link for non-Brembo owners. For those people, once you've reached a certain level a set of inexpensive light track pads, such as the Hawk HP+/HPS combo will suffice and last for many many events to come. You'd only swap those pads in for track days, while the stockers continue their normal duty during typical day-to-day commutes.

You really don't need to be at the limit in order to obtain all the thrills in tracking the car. There is no pressure for anyone to go faster than they are comfortable. Remember it's as much about learning as it is to have fun while doing it. I'm in agreement with J Ritt, that R-compound tires and timing device is not recommended for the novice. You certainly don't need exotic coil-overs and power mods either. You can get wayy ahead of yourself using them. A proper learning progression ought to be followed if you want to do it right and that is to start slow and steady then slowly cranking it up. For some, the fact we start driving since the age of 16 created a false sense of security, thinking we've all mastered the art of car control. Please do not feel IMBARRASSED if you do drive slow on the track. That's why the novice group was created. Those that are frustrated by getting blocked, understand the ppl in front of you are simply too caught up in the moment to realized you're actually behind them (due to inexperience). At worse, just give em a friendly hunk and a flash ... I'm confident they'll wave you by. Otherwise, step up to the next higher group if you feel you have out grown a particular skill group.

I'm also particularly fond of canyons, so I know exactly what yall canyon carvers are seeking. Some tracks are dull, but other not, offering breath taking scenery and dramatic elevation changes. Laguna Seca, Infineon and Spring Moutain comes to mind. Some may argue those aren't novice tracks, but neither is the Angeles Crest Hwy The risks and stakes are far greater on public streets however. I trust everyone feels the same way when I say you just can’t seem to be able to let her loose with feel like being watched. There may be a COP just around the next bend. Even worse, there could be a leaning **** on a crotch rocket going wide into your lane or just a simple patch of sand or water ... sending you off and tumbling down the ravine. Not a pretty sight! At the track, the only thing standing between you and the track is your own ability.

The moral of the story is to go out there and check it you for yourself either as a driver or a passenger/spectator. You decide for yourself if it's something you'd like to do. Along w. J Ritt, I will be more than happy to give pointers out there Flag me down if you see me at the track.

Cheers,

 

Track events are certainly a great way to get to know the car and become a smoother driver. You can learn your cars limits and behavior at speed which I would rather do there then on a public street with so many unknown varibles and obstacles not to mention horrible roads and hazards.
Also why drive your car illegally over any posted speed limit and end up paying more than any track event when all is said and done?

Tracking is remarkably safe and you dont get to many things unexpected besides everyone is movingin the same direction.

Since day one I have taken my car and its made me a better all around driver because of it!Not bad for really wringing out your sport car in a fun legal (this cant be emphasized enough) and safe way!

 

J Ritt,

I do get your mentality, trust me. Driving to the limit is fun, you should try drifting though. I think all road racers could benifit from it. Just to know what it is like to be slideing all over the place and recover. If your driving at 10/10 then you may end up there. Come out to a drift event and I'll take you for a ride, or anyone who asks and has a helmet.
It's quite a ride.

P.SI totally agree with about canyon to track driving. You can't drive on a road at 10/10 with the posibility of rocks, dirt, water animals or my favorite, the streetbiker who just passed you dropped his bike and is lying in the middle of the road(true story). Lucky for good brakes. I have seen and heard of too many crashes in the canyons all because someone went over their limit.

 

LMAO .... I just read my own post above and found a mother load of grammatical errors. That drives me absolutely nuts.

While I have drifted in this car, it was not what I would consider a full on drift session. I'd love to try sometimes and see how the G35 handles the steady state drifts. Is your car VDC equipped? I was told even w. VDC off, it was intervening with drifting ... I never had a chance to find out for myself.

 

I have been trying to promote a 350Z Challenge Series at the SoCal (and NW NV) racetracks without much success. Our first event at Big Willow on 6/4/04 brought out 8 350Z, 2 300ZX TT, and a bunch of G35C that came out on their own not due to my promotion.

Our next 2 events, after a break due to the high desert heat in the summer, are Oct. 1 - 3 at Buttonwillow (go to www.speedventures.net to sign up), and Oct 9 & 10 at Spring Mtn. Raceway (40 miles NW of Las Vegas, go to www.racerfactory.com to sign up). Hope to see a lot of 350Z there.

 

Alrite, you guys got me intrigued... I got couple questions...

1. At the speed venture FAQ page, it mentioned something about the helmet has to be Snell 95 and above. How do I know if a helmet is Snell 95 and above? Is there a website that lists what helmets are approved?
2. Any recommended helmet that's pretty good value for a beginner? I don't want to drop $500 on a helmet. Or should I?...
3. Is the stock roadster rollbars approved for the track? At least at ButtonWillow?
4. Some of you complained that the techs for speed venture is bad. What does the "good" techs do?
5. I would like to go to the October event and spectate. Will the event people gonna let just be on the track without paying anything? Is there any special arrangement that you guys have to do?
6. Do you guys recommend taking a driving class first? Something like the Performance Driving Clinic held by Buttonwillow?



Lastly, who wants to carpool/caravan up there? I live in Cerritos.

Thanks for "showin the ropes" to us newbies.




ELY

 

1. Here's the skinny on helmets:
Helmets:

All helmets must be Snell SA rated. This means "Special Application" for racing. They have .120" thick shields, a fire resistant interior and are subjected to different crash tests than M rated "Motorcycle" helmets. Helmets come three ways: full-face, full-face without shield and open-face. Full-face helmets can have a small or large eyeport. Small eyeports are preferable in open cockpit racing to minimize the risk of flying objects getting through the shield to your face. Large eyeport helmets are preferred by sedan racers because they make it easier to see the gauges. Full-face helmets without shields have even better visibility and are much cooler, but do not completely protect your face. Open-face helmets offer the best visibility and comfort, but the least protection. Some helmets have vents, some don’t. More vents may keep you cooler, but they also provide more ways for fire to get in. Most helmets are fiberglass. The more expensive ones use special laminating processes or other materials like carbon fiber and kevlar to make them lighter – causing less neck fatigue. Helmets are also made more expensive by aerodynamic engineering to prevent lift and buffeting in open-cockpit cars.
Correct helmet fit is critical. A helmet should be as snug as possible without giving you a headache. You can start with your hat size but that is just the beginning. With the helmet on, chin strap undone and neck held rigid, twist the helmet left and right to check for excessive play. Then, with the chin strap on, rock the helmet back then forward to see if it can roll off. Finally, watch a half-hour TV show with the helmet on. If it feels snug during these tests but doesn’t give you a headache, you have the right size.

I would recommend a full face, SA2000 helmet. If you get an SA95, the rating will be outdated sooner. You can get some very nice, budget-minded helmets here: http://www.racerwholesale.com/Mercha...Racing+Helmets
Something like the Pro Force 1 would do your fine. Do a google search on 'SA2000 Helmet,' and you'll get plenty of places to shop and compare. You don't need anything too fancy...just something that will protect your noggin, lightweight, and comfortable.

If you are just going to come spectate, don't buy a helmet. You'll probably not have too much trouble borrowing one at the track, and if you have a small enough head, you can fit in my spare.

3. I'm not 100% sure on the rollbar, but I'm almost certain it is. I would contact the event organizers and check: events@speedventures.net

4. You have to perform a technical inspection of your car prior to the event. This is something that I could do for you at the track if you aren't mechanically inclined. The basic idea is to make sure everything is up to snuff, and that you're car's not going to come apart at the seams on the track. A mechanical failure can send you (and others) home in a hurry. Many organizations have a group that performs 'tech.' Speedventures relies on its participants to tech their own cars.

5. Definitely come just to watch if you are interested. I and others will be able to take you out for a ride and show you what your car is really capable of. For most people, it is somewhat stunning, and they typically shocked that the car they've been cruising around in can do what they just witnessed. After the first ride I got out on a track, I was instantly hooked on the sport. It is quite a thrill.
You will most likely have to pay $10 or so to enter the track, and sign a waiver. The waiver is basically stating that you will not sue the track or owners of the track if your head gets lopped off by a flying car. No special arrangements or anything are necessary. You also need to factor in food/drink, and hotel if you plan on staying for more than 1 day.

6. If you have no experience with this sort of thing, autoX, or any sort of performance driving, then it may just be a good idea to just spectate for this event. I wouldn't advise you to rush into anything that you aren't comfortable with. Some people take to the track instantly, and they seem to be naturals. Others have a little more fear built in, and it takes them a little longer to be confident out there. As I said, if you are completely green to performance driving, and you have some inhibitions, then just spectate. If you get out there and wish you were driving, well then you'll know what you need to do next time to prepare for the event. If you get out there and feel 'in over your head,' you won't have a fun day, and you'll be less likely to go back and try again. Just take it slow and learn about the sport. The more you learn, the more you'll appreciate its intricacies.

I'm going up Friday night from Redondo Beach and staying over. You're more than welcome to follow me up. I'll probably be in a caravan with a couple of other friends or others from this board.

 

Couple more questions

1. Any recommendations on a store that sells helmets? Since fit is so important, I would like to buy it in person instead of online. I can probably borrow from someone for the October event though.
2. When you say open cockpit racing, does that include convertables? Or do you mean something more like Indy cars?
3. What do you check in a technical inspection?
4. How early do these events start? Just want to know if it's just drive up saturday morning, check it out, and drive back saturday night.

Thanks for the great answers J Ritt.

 

I have personally seen 350Z roadsters run at the Buttowillow Performance Driving Clinic, which I highly recommend as a first track event for newbies.

I spent $70 for an open face DOT/Snell approved helmet at a motorcycle shop. I have done about 15 track days in the last year at Big Willow, Streets of Willow, Buttonwillow (why all the willows?) and Spring Mtn. in Nevada. No one has once questioned my helmet. Buttonwillow Raceway rents helmets for $10 per day at the Clinic.

The tech inspection is nothing. If your car is not falling apart, you pass.

Go for it. It's the most fun you will ever have with your clothes on.

 

Sorry that I don't have time to read this entire thread yet (and looking at all the long posts, I know it's a crime.. everyone has put in a lot of thought in their responses). Just wanted to chime in that hell yeah I track my car . Went to Buttonwillow back in February earlier this year and went to Drift Day at California Speedway in end of July:





The only thing stopping me from going to every one that I could is funds . But yeah, it was a blast each and every time, and what you learn about how your car handles and reacts is priceless. I didn't buy this car just for it to look pretty . She WANTS to be let loose out there!

Promise I'll read this thread later!

 

Crayons, I saw you at the drift day, nice moves cowboy.

Elyliu, definately spectate if you not absoloutly sure.
Your roll bar may be ok out there, but with a roadster you really should consider it.

 

I'd like to check this out, too. I've always thought about running on a racetrack, even long before I bought my Z three months ago. So, J Ritt, I'd like to take you up on your offer and ride a lap with you and any others who'll allow me the pleasure.

I have an M95 helmet (Shoei size M) and the SV FAQ says that it's acceptable. I will be looking into an SA2000, though, eventually. I thought I'd be able to kill two birds with one stone with that helmet, but I guess not.

I'd like to just go on Saturday for this one, if possible. How early should I be there? Are spectators allowed to sit in on the driver meetings?

Ely, we should carpool. It's about a 2 1/2 hour drive, so we'd probably have to leave real early. If you don't mind driving to Baldwin Park, I could drive the rest of the way. (You can park in my garage.)

 

First time out there, I ate poo on that J Turn and didn't get breaking the rear loose until way later =\. Who and what car were you?