I can't believe how few Z owners around here track their cars...I don't get it!?! I thought that when I came to Cali, everyone would be tracking their cars out here. I haven't really seen more than 2 or 3 other Z's at the tracks ever. Buttonwillow and Willow Springs are only 1 1/2 hours from LA, yet nobody seems interested in taking their cars out there.

Everyone wants to cruise canyons, eat lunch, wax their car, and stand around in parking lots talking...but most don't seem too keen on the idea of blasting around a racetrack. I'm not sure whether it's just that nobody wants to take the plunge...or if people just don't know how to get started into track events....or if it people are worried about safety...help me out here guys. What do we need to do to get more people out at the track? I always feel a bit lonely out there driving with the S2000's and Evos!

Would it help if I wrote a basics of a track day post or something? Here is a link that answers some of the questions:
http://speedventures.net/faq.asp

It is very simple to participate, and IMO it is as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. I think if people tried it once, they would be hooked instantly like I was. You don't have to drive like a maniac, just at your own pace. Also, you can get instruction, and really learn how to handle your car at the limit. You get to push your car 10 times harder on the track than you ever would on the street, and it's also significantly safer than any canyon run if you are smart out there and don't drive over your head. After driving on the track, canyon runs will be a bore (other than the threat of flying off of a cliff)...trust me!

If anyone wants to come spectate at the Buttonwillow event on Oct. 1-3, I'd be happy to take people for rides in my car, etc. and show you how much fun it is. Also, the other guys that will be at the event are cool as well...I'm sure they would be happy to teach people and take them for rides as well. A lot of them are over at S2ki.com...check out this link and see how much fun they have harassing eachother. I need some people to back me up over there...look how much **** they talk on me...it's all in good fun though. http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=230909

Maybe you guys could turn this event into one of your meets? I could clear it with the event organizer. You don't even have to drive in the event...just meet in the parking lot up there and see what it is all about. Caravan up there on Friday night...get a room in one of the local hotels...get drunk at the local bar that you can walk to, hang out, talk cars with eachother and everyone else...then hang at the track on saturday...get some rides on the track...ask people questions...and learn why people get so passionate about track driving and racing. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Think of it as a track orientation meet. My buddy from Nismo will be there in their project G35...and possibly his coworker with his 600hp R32 Skyline. I may have a pro-racer friend of mine come as well...possibly a guy I know at eibach. At the last event there was a 600hp 911 GT2, a Ferrari Challenge race car, Supra, Evos, STi's...if nothing else, you'll get to see and possibly ride in all sorts of cool cars. It will be like a camping trip at the track.

Any interest in this? Again, do you guys just need more info to pique your interest? I always feel bad that I don't really participate much in the 35zero meets... It's just that I'd rather be out at the track than at Hooters or something. I wear the sticker on my helmet and silently hope that more Z's are going to show up at the track...but they never come. I'll help in any way that I can to get this going. Let me know what you guys think. Anybody, Bueller?

 

Jeff,
WHERE ARE MY STOPTECHS?!?!? LOL ... j/k

I've also noticed the same general lack of interest among the Z/G crowd. It's a far cry from the S2000 crowd, whom I'm very close friends with. I believe the underlying reason is that of little to no exposure of the true sport itself. There's a common misconception of what an OPEN TRACK event is actually about vs. the more easily recognized Fast n' the Furious bit or just another canyon run.

Things may be shifting for the good, however, at least in the G35 arena. I was able to conjure up not 1, not 2, but 14 cars that signed up and paid [/b] for the up coming Buttonwillow event in a few weeks!!
Check This Thread for details.


You ought to join us for the annual pilgrimage to Laguna Seca every January/February! Take a peek here!


See you and the rest of you guys at the track!

 

Jeff,

I'll give you a call tomorrow or over the weekend to get some details.

Dan

 

.

 

Which day are most people going on?

 

Jeff,
I would love to track my Z, but haven't had the time to get up to these events this summer. I am going to try and make it to the Oct. 2. I do agree, nobody wants to go, plus for me this will be my first time. I do kinda drive my car hard out on the twistes but do want to take my time when I take it to the track. Only thing I will need is a helmet and I will be set. So count me tenative for now but am looking at 90% for sure being there.

 

Clint,
That is excellent work!!! I would love to see that many Z's out there as well. As I mentioned in my post, I think the biggest problem is that people are unsure how to proceed and get into the sport. I think doing a track day like this as a meet would be beneficial for those that just want to check it out firsthand before taking the plunge. As I said, I'm more than happy to help show people the ropes, and I know THX is too.

I think they may have loaner helmets at this event...I have an extra one as well, but it's tiny! You have to have a small head for it to work, but I'll bring it along.

I'm heading up there Friday night. Driving Sat. and Sun.

Dan, (or anyone else) PM me for my cell # if you want to talk about this. I'll answer any questions. I'll be leaving shortly...taking a trip to Philly for a wedding...but I'll check PM's once I'm out there.

 

time and money is the issue..

Tracking does end up costing a lot of money... If I had more free capital I would go all the time...

I can't write it off as an work trip

 

I took my Z on the track for the first time last month, and had a blast!!! But, I know what you mean, I was the only one with a Z there (Thunderhill).

I've been interested in speedventures, but noticed that most of their events take place down south, so that's not really convenient. I did see jRhitt in several of the race results (great driving out there!). I'll probably stick to Thunderhill till I get better, then try Laguna Seca (which supposedly is not a forgiving track) and Infineon Raceway.

After talking to several friends with reasonably capable cars, I've found that most of them don't want to "ruin" their pride and joy. Really, how many average joe's out there like seeing their tack near redline? Others say it's too expensive, which is very true (cost of tires, full tank of gas, brake pads, track fees, necessary upgrades) as it adds up quickly.

For me, I'm only planning 4 track days per year. Yet, after my first event, I realized that I can't go to another one until I upgrade my brake system. So, $2000+ is required before I go off to another event.

Why are there so many S2000 out there compared to Z's? Beats the hell out of me. Does that car require the same amount of investment to track it, like brake upgrades? Maybe Best Motoring was right, the Z was designed for the bloated American who do not race cars, but would prefer to look the part, shine it, show it, and cruise it.

I've also noticed that the road racing/autoX parts of this forum is much quieter than the rest of the topics.

I hope to join you guys in future event outings. For the time being, I have to save up $2k for a set of front stoptechs and learn how to install it.

 

I have your card from the Performance meet.

I'm a little concerned about how long my stock brakes will last before I have to bring her in. Other than that, I can think of a few guys who might be interested.

I know that Rob, Lyndon, Fran and Ken are track guys. You might want to PM them directly. Rob was talking about a track day at our last run and my only concern are the brakes. Thing is, as a daily driver, I found the stock brakes fine even for aggressive canyon runs and I can't justify spending $1,600 just for the annual track day. Let me know what you think about how long the brakes will last before fade makes them useless.

 

I've read some folks will cook their non-brembo brakes in four laps. Per advice from the more experienced folks, I took it easy on the straights, and still have about a little over 1/4" of pad left. I'm sure I can do another track day, but I'll look like granny on her way to the supermarket.

 

yeah, just go easy on the straights instead of ***** out since you already know your pads can't handle it. the fun parts are the turns anyway. and i don't think you need to do a full system upgrade just to take the car on the track. buy a more aggressive set of pads for 120 bucks and you're good to go.

 

I would LOVE to do it. Problem is I don't have the wheels and tires for it. $1000 worth of shredded Toyos would most likely put a damper on my awesome track day.

I plan on getting a set of Enkies and some race tires in about a year ... but right now I am focused on getting this car completed the way I want it for a daily driven, impress your friends car.

I am actually quite interested in coming up to see what the track day is all about though. I will see if any of the other SD people are interested in a lil' caravan to see one of the racedays. I'd especially like to come along in the car for a ride to see what the Z is capable of...would be really fun.

So for now, no racing for me ... but I will be up there with you in about 1 year.

The thing is, most people here cannot afford to trash thier car, which makes you think ... "why would I track it if I know I wouldn't drive it all out" cause you have the looming fear of crashing.

 

Not all of us can afford to do this regularly. Stock brakes are also an issue, and some don't have the time. And the canyon runs are great. They are also a good test for the car's ability, let alone the social aspect of it that allows us all to get together and sit to shoot the ***** for a bit. Haven't seen you at a run lately!!!

 

canyon runs are dangerous. thats why i rarely do them. and they are hardly a test bed compared to a real track.

and like previously stated, not everyone has the time/money. i for one need to drop ~1300 for the next track event i go to (tires/pads)

 

I think that some people are intimidated by the typical track days put on by various companies and clubs. The pressure to be quick when you're running at the same time (or just on the same day) as people with more experience and driving for lap times can be troublesome. There is a tendancy to push too hard too soon.

This is one of the reasons the Buttonwillow Performance Driving Clinic is so great for beginners. It's a more relaxed environment with less emphasis on who is faster than whom. Only licensed racers who are cleared by a professional chief instructor can teach, students can't take passengers (reduces the "watch this" factor - instructors can take students and spectators for rides, however) and no lap times are recorded. The focus is on the fundamentals for the beginners, while the more experienced returning drivers can focus on whatever they'd like.

That's not to say that other clubs don't have great beginner programs. But I've been to events where the instructors were hardly more experienced than the students - and in serious need of instruction themselves. Some would use their instructor status simply to get behind the wheel of students' cars, or to blast around the track in complete disregard of passing zones and other safety rules (this happened at an event at Buttonwillow in May). I've even seen so-called instructors insulting students in public forums when complaints have been logged about this type of behavior. This only frustrates newcomers.

The fact is, too, that track driving uses up a car faster than most street driving. It is far safer than racing up canyons, but it can be damaging and costly to run a car on a track on a regular basis. And if that car has to be a daily driver, too, there is even more reason to stay conservative.

That said, there's nothing quite as exhilarating as driving a great-handling car on a race track at or near the limit. The Z was meant to be driven in this environment, and Buttonwillow is one of the safest tracks around when it comes to runoff room. I would encourage any enthusiast to give a track day a try at least once. Going with a group of people you know, especially if you're all beginners, is a great idea. There is a great social aspect at the track, too, as drivers compare their experiences and share advice.

 

I'm interested but my car is stock. So if I can take shot gun for now then I'll go.

 

I'm going on Nov 27th to Streets of Willow...my 3rd time this year outside of my monthly autocross. I wouldn't recommend race tires for a whole day of driving since those tires will last the day and they're done. I usually participate in Speedtrial USA or Redline Track Events activities. It is expensive...$120 registration, $10 gate fee, half a tank to get there, lunch, fill up the tank at the end of the day....it becomes a $200 day but the fun is so much better than a cruise on some "twisty" road.

 

Track driving is fun, but I don't trust the other people who sign up for these events. If I'm on your *** in every corner LET ME PASS, slow drivers **** me off, espesically when they have fast cars.(like a 600hp porshe) Driving around the track is too boring anyway, you guys should try drifting. Spin tire though the whole track and look good doing it and then I'll be impressed. I can't explain how it feels to pin the gas in 3rd, white smoke going everywhere, reaching freeway speeds after pumping the throttle a few times, a little more anlge and BAM, you let go of the wheel as the rotates few times faster than your hands could possibly turn it, and your hands ****** it as the desired angle is reached, and another snap the other way, rpms dropping , downshift to 2nd and full throttle, BRAKES!!!(no abs), apex time(thank god for the brakes) and a nice fishtail at corner exit. I just don't get that feeling when I go to speedtrials events. It is definately fun, but it's also dangerous hiting turns in the triple digits, I'm out there to have fun but I want to drive home. Unless I am really going for it I am usally drifting below 60 (so far). If I can have that much fun going so slow, I see no need to race and risk it all, just my 2 cents.

Crashing is a part of racing, remeber that when you decide how fast you want to race. I know a few pro racers and the've all crashed several times(so have I), and it was not always their fault.(it was my fault,doh!)

"did I hit that cone?"


At the west loop at buttonwillow I kept a drift going from the onramp corner back around to the entrance of that same corner.
My Z is stock other than a technosquare ecu flash.

 

Mr. Webb,
Great response, and I agree on all counts. I've run with probably 7 or 8 different organizations, and there are tremendous differences in how they operate their events. I am extremely safety conscious, but I have noticed that most of the groups out here on the West coast are much less strict than those on the East coast. Most of them claim that this is a good thing in the name of 'freedom' for the driver. I disagree, and prefer as many safety precautions in place as possible.
The instructor issue is a big problem with nearly every group I've run with. There never seem to be enough qualified instructors, and there really isn't a set evaluation of individual drivers before they are 'signed off' and allowed to run by themselves, pass other cars, etc.
My personal opinion is that a student really shouldn't be allowed to silde their car on a track at all until they have some experience doing so at low speeds, such as in an autoX environment. It's simply too dangerous until you have experience and know how a car feels under those conditions. That said, there are ample things to learn, and plenty of fun to be had out on the track completely 'grip' driving without letting the car get loose. My thoughts for those who will be first-timers are the following:

I think all of these things should be covered before anyone is even allowed out on the track:
1. Learn the basics of how you are supposed to “be” in the car. Proper seating position, relaxed arms, how to hold the wheel, give steering and pedal inputs, proper mirror orientation, etc.
2. Next, you should be familiar with all of the rules of the track…what each of the flags mean, where the flag stations are, what layout you are running, passing zones, how to signal properly for passing, when to allow passes, what to do if something goes wrong on the track, how to avoid accidents, etc.
The most organized groups I’ve run with have had classroom instruction in the AM before beginners were even allowed to go out. I think this is an excellent idea. It calms nerves, reinforces theories, and generally prepares everyone mentally for what they are going to do.

I think EVERY novice driver should have an instructor in the car with them for the entire first day. There’s so much to learn that the student should never feel bored or like they aren’t learning anything from their instructor every session. If they do feel that way, then the instructor isn’t doing a good job.
IMO, novices should not be allowed to run with timing equipment. Transponders do induce higher speeds and potentially driving over one’s head. If you are still new to the track, you shouldn’t be worried about lap times, period…many, many other things to think about.

On the first sessions out for the novice, they should be working on a number of things: Learning the proper line around the track…memorizing how all of the flag stations look and remembering to note them…checking mirrors and watching for traffic…getting a feel for driving in traffic…giving proper passing signals. Starting out slow and figuring out where you need to be at each turn is key.

Another thing I like is a serious tech session, which again, tends to be lacking in most of the groups out here. I have seen some ratted out cars on the track that really shouldn’t be out there. I try to take the condition of my car very seriously, but I’ve seen many that don’t.

It seems like your car control clinic would definitely be a great first step in a controlled environment, and I would encourage all novices to attend.

That said, Speed Ventures is definitely more on the relaxed end of the scale. The basics are covered in an extended morning drivers meeting (including flags, passing rules, etc.), and instructors are available to those who want/need instruction. Tech is every individual’s responsibility (self-tech)…which I’m not a huge fan of. I prefer a more formal tech. Corner workers, pit out, etc. are all in place.

I would personally like to see instruction beefed up for novices though, which is why I’m willing to spend some time with those who are interested. I’d be more than happy to go over some of the basics I talked about above in more detail at the track. We could do a gathering around the car and display seating position, hand position, etc.

Scott, what I’d really like to see is reasonably priced advanced driver training on the track with pro drivers from Grand Am, World Challenge, etc. I feel like at this point I’m sort of stagnant in my progress as a driver. I need someone that is really good to work one on one with me in the car, but I don’t have a few grand to drop on a Bondurant school, etc. Maybe this is something that we could work on putting together…could be a big hit. I haven’t seen anything of the sort. I think using our combined resources, we could possibly do something like this. I know for a fact that I could get a couple of drivers…hmmm….