AEM Wideband install question...
04-04-2006, 08:14 AM
#21
Well there is no way that I know of to truly measure the volume of the fuel in each fuel rail at the same time while at WOT. What I am looking for is some proof or test that has been run to show that this is true. I am wondering why someone would design a fuel system that way if this were true. How much leaner are we talking about here because I am sure all these widebands do have some error associated with them so are we talking half a point difference? A point difference? Or a couple tenths difference which might be within the error and be therefore insignificant. I mean my car reads lean enough as it is on the passenger side, and I need to know how much more you think it might be lean on the driver side.
04-04-2006, 08:28 AM
#22
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As far as testing it, I've seen more than a few cars running dual widebands - same placement of the sensor on each side, and you can see the passenger side and drivers side banks reading differently.
Every car experiences this to one extent or another - it is not something unique to the Z. Subaru's are a perfect example (return setup where the passenger side can run marketedly leaner than the drivers side due to the rail configuration and the location of the FPR, as are BMW's (returnless). Is it a dramatic difference? No - but it's there, and the higher levels of hp you try to achieve, the more of an issue it is. It also varies by injector type (RC vs PE vs whatever). There is no way to quanitify how much of a difference to reply upon, as it will vary widely car to car, tune to tune, wideband to wideband
This is also a big benefit of adding a return fuel system to the mix.
The best way, IMHO, to measure is to start taking a poll of NA setups for example, and where people have their widebands mounted, model year/build date of the car, the prescence of cams, headers, plenum, engine mgmt, whether they run cats or no cats, what wideband they used, etc etc etc. The after you take that sample, some general correlations can be extrapolated. Gets to be a bit laborious and I'm not even sure what beneficial info you would even be able to glean.
Running "lean" and running "rich" are very widely misunderstood and misappropriated terms - especially on this forum. There is more to tuning than a car running a fat or thin AFR - lots of other factors (timing advance, coolant temps, airflow through the MAF, etc) also play a big factor. A car running a solid 12.8 could be running like a raped ape, or could be leaving a lot on the table - only through careful tuning, making small steps at a time, noting the changes, and playing again, do you begin to get a feel for where YOUR car (not someone else's) wants to be.
Every car experiences this to one extent or another - it is not something unique to the Z. Subaru's are a perfect example (return setup where the passenger side can run marketedly leaner than the drivers side due to the rail configuration and the location of the FPR, as are BMW's (returnless). Is it a dramatic difference? No - but it's there, and the higher levels of hp you try to achieve, the more of an issue it is. It also varies by injector type (RC vs PE vs whatever). There is no way to quanitify how much of a difference to reply upon, as it will vary widely car to car, tune to tune, wideband to wideband
This is also a big benefit of adding a return fuel system to the mix.
The best way, IMHO, to measure is to start taking a poll of NA setups for example, and where people have their widebands mounted, model year/build date of the car, the prescence of cams, headers, plenum, engine mgmt, whether they run cats or no cats, what wideband they used, etc etc etc. The after you take that sample, some general correlations can be extrapolated. Gets to be a bit laborious and I'm not even sure what beneficial info you would even be able to glean.
Running "lean" and running "rich" are very widely misunderstood and misappropriated terms - especially on this forum. There is more to tuning than a car running a fat or thin AFR - lots of other factors (timing advance, coolant temps, airflow through the MAF, etc) also play a big factor. A car running a solid 12.8 could be running like a raped ape, or could be leaving a lot on the table - only through careful tuning, making small steps at a time, noting the changes, and playing again, do you begin to get a feel for where YOUR car (not someone else's) wants to be.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 04-04-2006 at 08:34 AM.
