i gather this info mainly from the endless reading ive done lately all over the internets... i may have read inccorect info. if that is so, please inform me. btw, i am not being sarcastic, unlike you with the "thanks"

i do not know who sharif is. how did he confirm this? unless he has somehow tested this in nearly every load and rpm setting, i find it hard to believe... i doubt it is as easy to test as just hold pedal down while having someone look at the throttle plate.


i am hear to learn, and help where possible. i appreciate when someone corrects me when i am wrong, but it seems like you do it in an effort to insult and shun me, rather than to inform me and the community. why do you feel the need to be so arrogant?

 

carluch

My point is:

The system has quick response and works as intended. If you don't argue that the throttle plate opens quickly after pedal depression, then the issue is whether the engine responds fast enough for you to be satisfied, which was basically my conclusion all along.

Furthermore, engine response can be improved by making a few modifications, changing the air fuel ratio, timing, etc. Which again was my conclusion from the beginning.

Why do many aftermarket companies avoid toying with the DBW system? Because if it were to fail and, say, get stuck open, they could have a few million dollar lawsuit on their hands. If I remember correctly even the AEM standalone utilizes the stock ECU to control the DBW/throttle system. And that is supposed to be a full standalone system.




Your point:

You like to argue on the internet without really solving any problems or making any relevant arguments. Proving me wrong does not solve anything, and you have failed even at that. You have merely stated your opinions which in my book accomplishes very little.

Do you have a solution other than getting a technosquare reflash (which still does not yield a 1:1 throttle position versus throttle plate opening solution)?

If not then you might as well stop arguing, because you're not taking this thread anywhere other than down.


All I've ever done is inform the 350z community about everything I know and have figured out about the 350z. Do some research about my past posts before you dig yourself into a deeper hole. And in 7600+ posts, I've rarely, if ever, flamed anyone. You are merely picking a fight, without solving anything.

 

carluch, does it make sense to you, that in every situation, the ECU may not be opening the throttle a wide as YOU think it should be? How do YOU know how far the throttle should open based on load and rpm? Hmm ?

What makes you so sure that opening the throttle more will allow for better engine response?

Again, better engine response will come from letting the motor breathe better via intake/exhaust/cams or FI of some sort, lighter flywheel, lightweight crank pulley, etc.

 

Thanks chimmike. Good point about your average Joe not knowing how wide the throttle should open at a given load/rpm.

 

Actually, I am dead serious.

If you have a source for this information I'd like to see it. I've read the engine control part of the service manual a few times, but it's possible I skipped over that part.

I am not calling you a liar, but nice catch! I was indeed being sarcastic as it is often the most effective way make someone put their money where their mouth is.

 

GM does this on thier trucks with drive by wire. It makes it feel faster. They have really fast throttle response. Its called like throttle tip in or something. Yes there are ways to adjust this. Gm computers are much better for tuning than the crappy nissan ecus. I am almost sure you can even adjust this in the GM ecu on a drive by wire.

 

i reread my original post, to make sure i wasnt picking a fight. i wasnt. i was offering what i thought was a better understanding of the original posters problem. and one possible solution. i am not much of a fight picker with random people on the internet, nor have i been for years. i do however get offended easily when somone responds to me in an arrogant tone.
i do agree with you though that we are accomplishing nothing related to cars now...

as a side note, i am trying to learn as much as possbile about ems (oem or standalone) for the vq35de before i purchase what i need to get this motor fired up... although we have gotten off on the wrong foot, maybe you can point me in the right direction to enrich my understanding in terms of ems for the vq?

 

Nope, it was the post where you picked apart everything I said (and I wasn't even talking to you... )

And like I said, I wasn't calling you a liar. You posted something about the throttle behavior that I've never seen before and I wanted it confirmed. Yes I was being sarcastic, because I wanted to see the source of the info.


Sure thing, PM me any questions you may have... if you look in my posting history (threads started by Wired 24/7) you will find a good number of helpful posts regarding a few simple N/A mods, their effect on air/fuel, and some tuning stuff...

 

it is a good point, especially for an extremely average joe who uses the engine in their fairly stock 350z. while i am certainly not an expert on engine management, i am dont consider my needs those of the average joe. what i do need/prefer is "feel," like that ive become accustomed to with cable drive throttle bodies...

if the electronic tb is optimal, thats great. but if the system can be improved upon, i am eager to take advantage of it...

 

if only there was a reasonable way to adapt a gm computer to my vq! i only hear good things about them and there programmability. unfortunately, im not sure this is possible or within my ability while keep such technologies a ivt and such...

 

While this is a valid question it seems to be a somewhat unrewarding area to look in terms of throttle response as mentioned before. It would almost seem comparable to the increase in throttle response from removing the antenna and rear wiper (less weight equals better acceleration "feel").

There are so many other ways to improve response that it would seem unrewarding to spend money on this when there are much easier ways. Unless you are building and absolute NA monster I would recommend you go buy a light weight flywheel and reap the benifits of the newly released horsepower and better throttle response for a fraction of the cost that a reflash will cost.

 

I get it now...

carluch and s13SRmadness are posting from the same IP address. No wonder I responded to one username, and it was the other username who got offended

Unless you guys are roommates or something

hehe

 

haha yeah we are roommates... been messing around on forums together since high school...
aside from all the bs, which i hope we are over, we both do have a genuine interest in vqs/350zs. we have both owned and modified nissans since we were 17...

 

You understand it almost 100%, don't worry - lot's of people here love to profess themselves experts at a myriad of things. I've read a variety of artciles in Japanese magazines from Amuse, and most notably, MCR, rgarding this very issue. What you are describing is in fact how the DBW setup works on this car, but to make matters more confusing, it does not do it consistently. Yes, there is temp based correction, though this is not really a concern because you should not be tear assing around with the car cold anyway As far as the throttle plate, the ecu controls the DBW based on calculated load as I recall - meaning that under some conditions it does so with 100% opening of the butterfly, and other times it does not quite open 100%. Most of the logs I've done on my own car have shown this to be rather adaptive based on driving, but I did have some logs that showed exactly the scenario described by Amuse and MCR, as well as others (Tomei is another that has published articles in Japanese publications regarding this as well). I've also spoken to Central 20 about this as well.

Yes TS can flash the ecu to alleviate this, and I believe AAM can do it to. The software both of them use originates from Tectom. Incidentally, the Techtom software is the exact one that Amuse, Tomei, MCR, Central 20 and every other tuning house in Japan that offers a flashed ecu, uses.

Although I currently run a UTEC, my ecu was flashed by AAM back in November 2003. At that time I do not think they had the ability to make this change, though now they probably do (I know TS does). I've honestly not bothered to have it done because, at least on my car, it's reared it's head so infrequently, I did not feel it was worthwhile. It might be the type of thing that behaves differently on different cars however (much like fuel and timing tables do on these cars)

 

also, if out and out engine responsiveness is something you are looking to improve, a flywheel and pulley would do wonders - they make a noticeable improvement on these cars and make the engine feel, for lack of a better word, alot more "lively"

 

thank you for confirming what i have become unsure of...

relative to how long the 350z has been available, i havent been reading about it to long...

ive been hesistant to discuss myself or my project on this forum, but after this thread, it seems to me that there are some people here that can help.

after building, repairing and driving sr20s for around 8 years, ive decided to challenge myself. as of right now, i have a vq 35 from a 04 g35c sitting in the engine bay of my s13 240sx.
i plan to use the car, as with past cars, as a competition/demo drift car. while i busy myself with the chassis prep, ive been mulling over the engine management choices for the motor.

i got the engine/trans without a useable harness, so standalone management such as haltech e11 seemed to be a great choice. i am very interested in utilizing every technology the engine has to offer, specifically retaining the ivt. also a few other people i know have had problems dealing with the new nissan pickups with haltech, aem, etc. so i looked back to the oem ecu.

i plan to run the motor NA intially, and shortly after turbo or supercharging it with the goal of around 400whp and the most robust midrange possible...

currently it seems as though obtaining a harness, ecu, key and immu from a 350z m/t would be my best option initially, followed by a rom tune once supercharged...

my concers for ems included utilizing every performance minded feature available with the engine, cost, and simplicity(ie. no piggybacks if possible)...



any thoughts/suggestions on the matter?

additionally, i am looking for the above mentioned oem parts to run the stock ecu, so if anyone has a source for them, please let me know...

lastly, if the moderators feel so inclined, making this its own thread is fine with me...

thanks in advance, and i apologise for the quirky introduction we've had...

 

I've got a full engine harness available - $350 shipped gets it

As for the standalones, the biggest issue as you know is drive by wire - most ecu's cannot handle it, and the ones that can are, at this point, pricey

 

carluch -

nice project, please post up some pics ASAP!!

the guys at performance nissan parts are usually very capable of locating OEM parts for the 350z/vq35

Also if you want to make your own thread for your project, go ahead...

 

im not too concerned with the dbw, if that is the only thing i lose with a standalone. id have little problem converting the 350 tb to cable driven or using a q45 tb... the thing im really concerned with in using a standalone is losing the ivt and the ton of problems my friends have had with pickups on aem and haltech units... from aem plug and play on sr20, to my buddy chris's problems with his vh56...

 

im in LA for the weekend, so i only have some grainy pictures i had on my sidekick to post up for now. when i get back east, ill take some with a better camera.

these are shots from the night i finished the motor/trans mounts... fits really well, aside from hood clearance near where the intake manifold comes up in the rear of the motor...





the motor will be coming back out in soon, order to stitch weld the seams and paint the engine bay...