rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Hey all,

I've started to finally put my CIPHER tool to use. I've recently added a FastIntentions exhaust and Pop charger to complement my 3/8" MD spacer and I think I've leaned out too much. My A/F ratio very rarely dips below 13.5 and is mostly at 14 or above.

Attached is a wide open throttle run with load on the x axis and timing advance and AFR on the y axis.

WHY IS MY TIMING DROPPING? Is the ECU retarding due to ping/knock or is that normal to go that low (0 to -10???).

Thanks to anyone who can interpret this accurately...

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

should I plot with rpm on the x axis? the above data might actually be a couple of runs (re-sorted by load though). Does timing normally drop when you let off the gas?

i've noticed my idle is a tad rougher though it sits right at 650 - same as before. then all of a sudden it will be smooth - then rough - what's up with that? i've checked around the plenum and i don't think there are any vacuum leaks (i have the DIY catch can in place, but not much oil collecting there).

__jb

iTrader: (3)

I am not a Cipher expert, but I am used to seeing "Time" alone the X-axis in my Cipher plots.

How did you get plots based on load? Did you drag data into Excel or something?

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Yes - I didn't know CIPHER could plot. I run CIPHER using the carPC - but transfer logs over WIFI to my desktop at home and open with Excel.

The problem with time is that it jumps all over the place during a run as you accelerate, slow down, etc so I thought this would be a good way to organize it.

I think those dips in timing are just when I let off the accelerator but then the load should be low (not high) so that doesn't explain the timing drops when the load is high...

dovla

rcdash, this chart is meaningless ... Please don’t sort anything.
Post chart for single WOT run (2K-6.5K rpm) with both banks AFR, Ign. timing, rpm. Or raw data, csv file.

__jb

iTrader: (3)

That's the kind of graph I'm talking about. Cipher lets you group different graphs together and set the order as you desire. This is one run that I made on the Preformance Factory dyno in January.

The cyan vertical line in the graph ties that specific "time" to the detailed data highlighted in the top window.

I think time is the accurate rendition of what actually happened. I suspect that a G with a UTEC and a nice tune would show less jumping around, but I don't want to overstate my tuning knowledge.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

ok, thanks for the tips guys...

i did a few runs after punching the "clear learned fuel settings" and again logged after resetting the ECU (disconnecting the battery and pressing the brake pedal method).

Let me see if I can pull the data for the 3 runs and get CIPHER to display as you have above.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Ok, attached are the CSV files. Now I've got to read the PDF to see how to graph (might take me a little while here)...

The file from 3/9 is before the ECU reset and from 3/10 is afterwards.

I had to name them .txt to upload, but they are .csv (comma separated value) files.

dovla

rcdash, I am no tuner and hopefully someone lot more knowledgeable than me will comment on your logs.

Attached are your logs graphs.

Based on Gs timing curves that I seen, your timing curve doesn’t seem to me to be result of pinging. But your AFR is high, you might like to check it again after ~50-100 miles (long term fuel trim?). With AFR reaching 16 at WOT I would contact a tuner for opinion. Good luck.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Thanks dovla - i love the way you formatted that 2nd graph - been trying for an hour trying to get that 2nd axis in excel.

Anyway, it looks like the pre-ecu reset was much better looking than the post-ecu. Maybe wiping out the learned fuel settings was not such a good idea. I can confirm on my GTECH that I've lost more than a 1/2 sec on my 0-60 and nearly a full sec to the 1/4 mile time (now reading 5.8-6 sec 0-60 and mid 14s on the 1/4; and just before the reset it was 5.2 sec 0-60 and low to mid 13s on the 1/4)

crapola!

can i use the fuel injector test and increase output by 20% and see what happens? the PDF says the fuel output increase is temporary - but how temporary? like 5 mins, 5 hours, till you quit the program or what?

__jb

iTrader: (3)

rcdash - Here's a view of your 309 log file from Cipher. You can see that when you drop the revs to change gears, that your timing drops too. Look in the detail window above and you can see the specific RPM's go down from this point on.

I like to also capture the throttle position and vehicle speed. It makes it a little easier to understand what's going on.

I still don't see why you guys are loading these log files in Excel for display. Am I missing something?

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

thanks jb - yes it looks like it pulls timing to shift gears (not pinging).

the thing i don't like about the CIPHER display is it's hard to see what the AFR is running with no gridlines. On the excel sheet (particularly the 2nd one dovla put together), you can see that the AFR hits 16 during the middle of the run. Yikes!

__jb

iTrader: (3)

If you want to inspect a specific point on the graph, left-click on the area you want to inspect and the detail window above will align and highlight exactly what is happening at that point.

You can also look through the detail window and left-click on a detail line. Cipher will draw a vertical cyan line at the exact point where that detail line occurs.

My question about th Excel spread sheets, especially the graph with RPM on the X axis, is that your car made several passes through some of those RPM bands. How do the graphs account for that? That's why I prefer the timeline graph of Cipher.

I'm not trying to argue, I just don't want you guys missing out on what I think is a pretty intuitive, accurate interface.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

jb - understood. For interactive review, I completely agree with you - very cool.

For posting in the forum though, it's hard to convey a lot of information with just a snapshot from CIPHER. In that case, Excel probably does a better job, particularly with two axis for different series.