binder

iTrader: (8)

it doesn't matter what the tuner sees it matter what he partakes in. You can watch someone do something all day long but if you're not involved then you don't get in trouble. If he's TUNING the car while you're driving it and there is money exchanged then he is involved in it. Huge difference than "he brought the car to me, he signed a form saying he wouldn't drive it on the street and it left my shop against my consent that it should be driven on the street".

Apparently you haven't been around lawyers enough yet to understand how bad of a mess liability stuff can get you in.

and you said 6hrs to a tuner, that's nothing for a drive really....

Vince@R/TTuning

iTrader: (7)

Without getting into it too much there is just to much involved to make this as streamline as you would think. When im tuning between runs i am constantly looking for indications of issues that could arise. Good tuners use smells, sounds, and feelings just as much as they use the data logging on computers.

With that being said I have E Tuned many cars for Uprev over that past few years with good success, but it typically takes days to weeks and multiple emails back and forth just to get it close. This also only works with someone that has a good basic knowledge of the tuning/datalogging system. Even then the tune typically isnt optimum, but more so effective. Then at that point the customer is either happy with the tune or flys me out to finish it.

I might be flying out to winapeg in the next few weeks for another customer...How far is that from you??( I dont feel like looking at a map)...

kartkid

I guess your right I don't hang around Lawyers, and use the old school common sense! I have lived most of my life in California and have a good knowledge of the court system but that is not what this is about.

A Lawyer is not better than a bad tuner LOL.

But really now up here in Canada you don't find court battles like that at all.

Once again I am looking for answers not battles or legal debates.

And to the same Point their are E-TUNES from UP-Rev that do much the same..Just not on real time and it takes two weeks to get a tune back..and you need to data log by running WTO. and I have not heard of any legal problems
of wrecks for it.I just was thinking of bringing it to the next level and giving a opportunistic tuner a ground floor opening.

Sorry of baiting a response in defense but I feel strongly this will be a valid tune option.

And you are partially correct laziness is the mother of most inventions.

kartkid

Winnipeg is too far 2600 miles I am east cost.

Thanks for the help and offer.

rtiid22

...I thought they already do this through email......>>https://my350z.com/forum/8650737-post68.html

Chris@FsP

iTrader: (4)

I like being on the dyno. It's fun. I would be bored to tears, and most likely extremely frustrated if I was sitting at a desk talking to someone on the phone trying to tune a car 1000 miles away.

0jiggy0

iTrader: (13)

SniperHunter

iTrader: (9)

Why not just E-tune? Seriously, it works wonders. You make the logs, the logs are examined by a tuner, and they build you a rom to upload.

djamps

iTrader: (1)

I don't know any tuners who would want to have any part of a full on, from-scratch F/I e-tune. N/A is a whole 'nother story because you're starting from a somewhat safe point and just improving on it. In fact, Uprev won't make timing adjustments with their E-tuning service.

Like others said, tuning is more than just looking at logs and making adjustments. You have to use every one of your senses especially hearing and feeling which isn't the same remotely.

Why not just fly a tuner out to you? It's not worth the risks both to your engine and your tuner otherwise. Not having a local tuner is one thing but being a cheap scate is another issue. E-tune on F/I, from scratch (base map or not) is just a terrible idea in so many ways.

hellsoldiers08

iTrader: (3)

frankly it all about software, if you can blip the throttle from your enter button then i think you can do it xxxx miles away. Also, it called a freaken mic! I know what he is saying and you would have to invest a lot of money in software that you would have to email out and put on a laptop. We went from custom support from being in a store to someone you call...... lol. Either way it would take 1. a rather honest man 2. someone who is honest and is willing to invest in such a uncharted area of tuning. Also another point for argument if the military is building remote control jet fighters, then apparently there no problem of "FEEL". It like a video game you never feel the recoil of a gun or acceleration of the car your driving with 1,000Whp. It what helps us feel most comfortable but something we can live with out(that what you called a GUT feeling (gamers now what im talking about when you think a enemy maybe coming around that corner).

kartkid

WTF- Sorry Guys you still are missing the point!

I am far from a cheap-skate but I thought I had an idea that may be before it's time. As with many new ideas it gets shot down by nay sayers and close minded people that feel this is the way we do it so thats that.

Where would technology be if we kept this attitude!

2nd as far as software What more software is needed?
If you are using UP-Rev the tuner will know the software and would really theoretical not even need it on his end but should. As the customer will need the UP-Rev tuner package.and have it loaded into his or hers lap-top connected to a wi-fi connection and a web cam as well
and another cell phone to communicate to the tuner.


The tuner only needs a good set of base maps that he can pull from with the basic mods on the customers car and using remote assistance (a std option on all Microsoft computers)and viola he has access to the customers lap top and the tuner software.

Retrieve a base map that he would have e-mailed earlier to load in as a base map then direct the customer to be his feeler as with the web cam he should be able to hear what going on and get a partial view.

So as far as A investment's point it is not that big.
a reliable computer and a fast connection,as well as a good set of base maps that will grow with each remote tune done.

Now as far as being cheap how much do you think it runs to have a tuner flown out and tune your ride??

kartkid

Just to let you know I do agree this is not the optimum way to tune as yes on a dyno and an experienced you will get better results but for some that do not need the razors edge tune and want a safe tune this might be a way.

Look at it this way where their is a demand for a service
their is a business opportunity. If you could wrap your head around this I see a very low overhead business. clean hands. Work from home. you are your own boss.

Like any business be honest and respectful to your customers and you will be golden. the word will get out and I know it is no cake walk to do this tune but in the end I feel it would be most profitable and after a few success it will accepted.

djamps

iTrader: (1)

To answer your questions.

Couldn't be more than $1000 to fly someone round trip and in the big scheme of things (an entire F/I build) that is pennies.

I'm not saying your idea is impossible. Just not something an experienced, reputable tuner is going to want to have any part of for the exact reasons mentioned by multiple members.

hellsoldiers08

iTrader: (3)

what i ment by software is, you would take control over the computer a 100% so the other person has no way of messing up something while your doing the dyno. If you done a screen share on a mac you kinda understand what i mean. Or connected to anything windows based computer using SOftware.

binder

iTrader: (8)

you're using an analogy with a multimillion dollar raptor airplain in the military with more money in just cameras than our cars are worth. There is a HUGE difference between that and someone remotely logging into your computer.

It is impossible for them to remotely drive your car unless you put more cameras in, rigged up steering controls somehow....i mean come on, this isn't realistic.

For the person saying "low overhead, do it from home". They can already do that with an etune. How would sending a customer a base map, having them do a number of pulls with data log and them adjusting them be any different?

You say weeks turn around but if you had a dedicated tuner set aside an afternoon you could log, upload the files, he alter and send them back and you flash. It would happen quick. The problem is the risk of a basemap on a built modded car. The same reason UPrev will not build a map for FI cars. They sent me a base map and said i'm on my own because there is too many factors than are car specific and could cause problems. So you'll have to find someone willing to risk that also.

hellsoldiers08

iTrader: (3)

1. i never said a raptor(if you new anything about the raptor is was never designed to be remote controlled. it was designed for a all around service(army, marines, and navy so on) that it can do what the british one jet can do, that is vertical take off and be a way better fighter jet and super sonic. Gosh lol someone needs to learn about military lol dont forget what the military makes or discovers that we could get if they see it ok for civilian use, but a couple years later.... aka interent, gps, and wireless phones 2. hate to say this but watch some military channel and some history channel and you will see what im talking about. They show the aka cot pit of of what the pilot is using. 3. i agree with F.I to many variables for even a base map. but for someone with stock engine eh way more passable then with F.I.

kartkid

Ok Binder. Lets not Flame each other. but read what I wrote I never said the tuner would take over the driving. Now that would be a liability and too much to get into.

Have you ever used remote assistance on Microsoft?
You have the other persons laptop screen on your screen and your mouse and keyboard operate their lap top as if it was in front of you.

This is much better than e-tunes as you will be able to see what the changes did after you reflash in real time as you direct the driver to find a (SAFE) road or place to run it.

and with our 2004 and over with dual wide-bands if in real time you see its getting lean you can over their cell phone tell them to back off.

I do not understand why so many can't see how this is possible as the technology is already on your computer.

The biggest expense lies on the customer a g4 stick a cell phone a tuner cable with up-rev software.

The tuners expense will be their Patience as I am sure they will need it to deal with a few customers. The time they spent getting their base maps a fax machine (to send release forms and payment info as well as what mods are on and boost press etc.) computer and high speed Internet.

maXmood

iTrader: (16)

didn't read the whole thread, but i've seen it done before. it's doable, but sometimes not the best practice, since it all depends on your internet connection and the coverage area you're in and what not.

and just like some said, hearing and seeing what's happening gives alot of feedback on what should be the tuner's next step.

if you don't have a tuner next to you (or a reliable one), you have 3 options:

1- learn how to tune.
2- have a tuner travel to your place to do the tuning.
3- get an EMS (like Haltech, Osiris), take it the unreliable tuner and have him speak with a reliable tuner (Vince @ RT Tuning, Hal @ IP, Sharif @ FP) to take him through tuning.

i've been through this before..

binder

iTrader: (8)

i meant preditor, not raptor. preditors are multi million dollar unmanned aircraft.

binder

iTrader: (8)

i'm pretty sure by controlling the throttle on a car you are essentially saying you are going to run the full car remote. You can't say "hey, steer the car while i use the gas for you"....