Uprev and boltons low gains..
06-05-2013, 09:24 AM
#24
if you didnt touch timing, then you are very lucky to even get the small gains you go. The only place to pick up any power on a NA tune is thru timing, as you can see how little was gained thru just adjusting AFR.
A proper tune will have way more and way less than just 2* across the board. Hopefully you didnt pay the tuner much.
A proper tune will have way more and way less than just 2* across the board. Hopefully you didnt pay the tuner much.
06-06-2013, 04:37 PM
#30
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This is what I thought so I started pulling out timing where it was spiking haven't had a chance to do a few pulls and datalog though.
Yes I realize de aren't great but you can't always have what you want in life. I'm just trying to make do with what I have...
Yes I realize de aren't great but you can't always have what you want in life. I'm just trying to make do with what I have...
06-07-2013, 05:34 AM
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You guys STHAP. You can get a lot of horsepower out of a DE and still stay NA. You can get cams (est. $1200 in cost), all the mods op had (est. about $1500 if you shop around), Don't forget to keep your car in top shape with a tune up and oil changes, replace any worn bushings/parts/engine mounts that maybe worn because when the engine is vibrating out of control instead of staying in place your just wasting energy instead of keeping it in a compact stable place to propel the car forward (engine dampers est. cost around $200), under drive pulleys, new fuel pump, different pistons and rods, hopes, dreams and the tears of baby owls for fuel and you got a nice quick NA. DISCLAIMER: 80% chance you'll be paying more in the end than if you were to get a turbo kit or super charger kit. Unless you know how to shop around, the price of the tears of baby owls is kind of high nowadays.
Last edited by Jah70; 06-07-2013 at 05:46 AM.
06-07-2013, 06:32 AM
#36
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Yup all motor build is pointless for most people and I know that I just can't afford to go turbo my car yet because I know the real life cost is more than anyone thinks when starting.
06-07-2013, 08:27 AM
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Timing is supposed to jump around based on load. That log you have showing it jumping around shows the load right under it is jumping around. When you ease up the pedal the load is released and timing will jump way up. Most of that little screen cap you show is cruising timing in which the car adjusts it constantly and it will go from 0 all the way to 36 in a blink of an eye. You shouldn't mess with the driving timing map. The only thing you need to mess with is the wide open throttle and on the log you show it appears very smooth to me.
It sounds like you are confused about closed loop verses open loop and how timing works on cars. Also, guys that are near 300hp on a DE engine are putting near 20k into these engines. 250hp at the wheels with bolt ons is on par with a DE engine. It depends greatly on humidity, elevation, etc not just outside temp. Also, what is the temp in the shop? it could be -15* outside but in the shop it will be much warmer due to the car running and the heating system. Basically you have to see what your intake temps are not what the temp is outside.
On dynos, even going to the same dyno you can get upwards of a 5% swing in power on the dyno alone the same day pull after pull. Now add a year of time and probably wildly different humidity and environment then you get different numbers even with no change in setup.
It sounds like you are confused about closed loop verses open loop and how timing works on cars. Also, guys that are near 300hp on a DE engine are putting near 20k into these engines. 250hp at the wheels with bolt ons is on par with a DE engine. It depends greatly on humidity, elevation, etc not just outside temp. Also, what is the temp in the shop? it could be -15* outside but in the shop it will be much warmer due to the car running and the heating system. Basically you have to see what your intake temps are not what the temp is outside.
On dynos, even going to the same dyno you can get upwards of a 5% swing in power on the dyno alone the same day pull after pull. Now add a year of time and probably wildly different humidity and environment then you get different numbers even with no change in setup.
06-07-2013, 08:40 AM
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Timing is supposed to jump around based on load. That log you have showing it jumping around shows the load right under it is jumping around. When you ease up the pedal the load is released and timing will jump way up. Most of that little screen cap you show is cruising timing in which the car adjusts it constantly and it will go from 0 all the way to 36 in a blink of an eye. You shouldn't mess with the driving timing map. The only thing you need to mess with is the wide open throttle and on the log you show it appears very smooth to me.
It sounds like you are confused about closed loop verses open loop and how timing works on cars. Also, guys that are near 300hp on a DE engine are putting near 20k into these engines. 250hp at the wheels with bolt ons is on par with a DE engine. It depends greatly on humidity, elevation, etc not just outside temp. Also, what is the temp in the shop? it could be -15* outside but in the shop it will be much warmer due to the car running and the heating system. Basically you have to see what your intake temps are not what the temp is outside.
On dynos, even going to the same dyno you can get upwards of a 5% swing in power on the dyno alone the same day pull after pull. Now add a year of time and probably wildly different humidity and environment then you get different numbers even with no change in setup.
It sounds like you are confused about closed loop verses open loop and how timing works on cars. Also, guys that are near 300hp on a DE engine are putting near 20k into these engines. 250hp at the wheels with bolt ons is on par with a DE engine. It depends greatly on humidity, elevation, etc not just outside temp. Also, what is the temp in the shop? it could be -15* outside but in the shop it will be much warmer due to the car running and the heating system. Basically you have to see what your intake temps are not what the temp is outside.
On dynos, even going to the same dyno you can get upwards of a 5% swing in power on the dyno alone the same day pull after pull. Now add a year of time and probably wildly different humidity and environment then you get different numbers even with no change in setup.
Intake temp on cipher was around 24c I believe. This intake shoots to 40c on a hot day when idling ...
I understand timing will jump around when cruising / as load changes. I'm talking about the spikes where I highlighted from left to right is where I'm WOT and let off throttle.
I know a de won't make a lot of power but should a tuner not adjust timing at all when tuning a car?
The tuning on my car is still stock like I said I made 250whp with my tuning which I never touched timing (I asked Hal for guideline for AFR) and the tuner made 255whp still not touching timing just running a bit leaner which I knew I was running conservative because I had no dyno / wideband.