Slow leak...Volk metal valvestem to blame?
02-19-2006, 03:33 PM
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Slow leak...Volk metal valvestem to blame?
Hi everyone
I've searched this to death on a number of forums (including wheel/tire forums, like 1010). The searches have only resulted in more theories as to the cause of my slow leak. So I want to query you folks to see what you think.
I have Volk TE37s all around. 19x10.5 rear with 285/30 S03's, and 19x9.5 with 245/35 on the front.
Both of my passenger-side tires (ie. front and rear) lose about 2psi per day. The driver side tires are fine and do not leak.
I've taken my car in to Discount Tire (the only place I've found that have the tools to handle these wheels and low profile tires without damage). They submerged both wheels and found no leaks.
I've done my own "Windex test" (which is a poor test because Windex is bubbly by itself, so all you see are bubbles popping everywhere) and found nothing. I even focused around the valve stem and found nothing.
So from my research here are my running theories:
1. Leaking from the bead
2. Leaking from the metal valve stem
3. (weak theory) The two times I have noticed the tires losing air occured during very cold temps. To be clear...I understand that cold weather causes the PSI in the tire to drop (1psi for every 10deg drop I believe). And this is NOT the issue. BUT, my (weak) theory is that the cold temps are causing either the tire and/or the valve stem to contract, allowing air to seep out.
One of the service techs at Nissan suggested (based on his experience with his Volks) that the metal valve stem is to blame. He said that they are notorious for seeping air and suggested that I switch to rubber valve stems. He had done so and this corrected his air loss problem.
Has anyone experienced this problem with metal valve stems?
Does anyone have other ideas or tips for things to check? I've run out of ideas.
On the first nice day here next week I'm going take her back to Discount to have the tires dismounted, the valve stems replaced with rubber, and then remount the tires. If the leak continues at that point, then at least this procedure would reduce the likelihood that the leak is caused by a poor bead seat and/or a leaky metal valvestem. I also assume that with the tires removed that the service techs at Discount will be able to inspect the bead seat on the rim, thus ruling out one more possibility.
Any thoughts or other ideas to suggest to the guys at Discount would be much appreciated.
Thx in advance!
-Smoky
I've searched this to death on a number of forums (including wheel/tire forums, like 1010). The searches have only resulted in more theories as to the cause of my slow leak. So I want to query you folks to see what you think.
I have Volk TE37s all around. 19x10.5 rear with 285/30 S03's, and 19x9.5 with 245/35 on the front.
Both of my passenger-side tires (ie. front and rear) lose about 2psi per day. The driver side tires are fine and do not leak.
I've taken my car in to Discount Tire (the only place I've found that have the tools to handle these wheels and low profile tires without damage). They submerged both wheels and found no leaks.
I've done my own "Windex test" (which is a poor test because Windex is bubbly by itself, so all you see are bubbles popping everywhere) and found nothing. I even focused around the valve stem and found nothing.
So from my research here are my running theories:
1. Leaking from the bead
2. Leaking from the metal valve stem
3. (weak theory) The two times I have noticed the tires losing air occured during very cold temps. To be clear...I understand that cold weather causes the PSI in the tire to drop (1psi for every 10deg drop I believe). And this is NOT the issue. BUT, my (weak) theory is that the cold temps are causing either the tire and/or the valve stem to contract, allowing air to seep out.
One of the service techs at Nissan suggested (based on his experience with his Volks) that the metal valve stem is to blame. He said that they are notorious for seeping air and suggested that I switch to rubber valve stems. He had done so and this corrected his air loss problem.
Has anyone experienced this problem with metal valve stems?
Does anyone have other ideas or tips for things to check? I've run out of ideas.
On the first nice day here next week I'm going take her back to Discount to have the tires dismounted, the valve stems replaced with rubber, and then remount the tires. If the leak continues at that point, then at least this procedure would reduce the likelihood that the leak is caused by a poor bead seat and/or a leaky metal valvestem. I also assume that with the tires removed that the service techs at Discount will be able to inspect the bead seat on the rim, thus ruling out one more possibility.
Any thoughts or other ideas to suggest to the guys at Discount would be much appreciated.
Thx in advance!
-Smoky
02-19-2006, 04:53 PM
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To add....
The reason I have a theory related to temps is because we had 40-50 deg highs for a few days, and the tires would lose 1-2 psi per day.
Then the high temps went to the 80s for a few days (yes, 80s in Feb). During this time the air leak stopped and the tires maintained pressure for two or three days straight.
Today the temps are in the 20s as the high (btw the 80's were a couple days ago...lol). And today I'm recording approx. 2 psi drop every few hours.
I say the theory is "weak" because these are my only data points. But it seems plausible.
Thx
-Smoky
The reason I have a theory related to temps is because we had 40-50 deg highs for a few days, and the tires would lose 1-2 psi per day.
Then the high temps went to the 80s for a few days (yes, 80s in Feb). During this time the air leak stopped and the tires maintained pressure for two or three days straight.
Today the temps are in the 20s as the high (btw the 80's were a couple days ago...lol). And today I'm recording approx. 2 psi drop every few hours.
I say the theory is "weak" because these are my only data points. But it seems plausible.
Thx
-Smoky
02-19-2006, 05:16 PM
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That's the plan. When I bring it in to Discount then I hope to knock out several possibilities at once. I realize that isn't the best way to diagnose the exact cause of a problem but if it makes it go away then I'm happy. :-)
Really I'm just wondering if folks have heard of this issue with metal valve stems. And also if there are other possibilities which I have overlooked.
Thx!
-Smoky
Really I'm just wondering if folks have heard of this issue with metal valve stems. And also if there are other possibilities which I have overlooked.
Thx!
-Smoky
02-19-2006, 05:19 PM
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If they did test the wheel, but dipping into a tank to check for bubbles, Im assuming that they would have dipped the area where the vavlestem was located as well.
But lets just go with the valve stem for now...do the spray test around the valve stem again , but wiggle the valve stem while you are at it.... it is possible that the rubber grommet for the valve stem is pinched or crack, which can be the source of the leak. its not the mere fact that its a metal valve stem. Another thing is to check the internal valve of the stem..see if its completely screwed tight as well.
But lets just go with the valve stem for now...do the spray test around the valve stem again , but wiggle the valve stem while you are at it.... it is possible that the rubber grommet for the valve stem is pinched or crack, which can be the source of the leak. its not the mere fact that its a metal valve stem. Another thing is to check the internal valve of the stem..see if its completely screwed tight as well.
02-19-2006, 05:29 PM
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Awesome. Good idea to suggest. Thx!
Honestly I hope it isn't the "metal" and it's just a grommet as you suggest Will. I love the look of them and the peace of mind for durability. But, I also like the peace of mind of knowing my tires keep their air.
And I've just been reading one horror story after another about the problems with metal valve stems. (thx google!)
Thx again!
-Smoky
Honestly I hope it isn't the "metal" and it's just a grommet as you suggest Will. I love the look of them and the peace of mind for durability. But, I also like the peace of mind of knowing my tires keep their air.
And I've just been reading one horror story after another about the problems with metal valve stems. (thx google!)Thx again!
-Smoky
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02-19-2006, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SmokyTyrz
Awesome. Good idea to suggest. Thx!
Honestly I hope it isn't the "metal" and it's just a grommet as you suggest Will. I love the look of them and the peace of mind for durability. But, I also like the peace of mind of knowing my tires keep their air. And I've just been reading one horror story after another about the problems with metal valve stems. (thx google!)
Thx again!
-Smoky
Honestly I hope it isn't the "metal" and it's just a grommet as you suggest Will. I love the look of them and the peace of mind for durability. But, I also like the peace of mind of knowing my tires keep their air.
And I've just been reading one horror story after another about the problems with metal valve stems. (thx google!)Thx again!
-Smoky
02-19-2006, 05:46 PM
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im going to have to say i was a victim from a blow out from my rear left rim. on my week old Volk SF challenge and it was due to a loose valve stem. all 4 were low on air. Due to the guy who was putting my tires on did not tighten the valve stem so the next time i got my tires put on the rims i had them put thread lock or a lock tight to seal the valve stem.
02-19-2006, 06:12 PM
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Wow! That's the kind of story that scares the crap out of me. Gotta get this sorted out. Plus I'm sick of having to leave the air compressor where it doesn't belong in the garage. :-)
And when this is all fixed I'm going nitrogen too. :thumbs:
Thx y'all! Great info!
And when this is all fixed I'm going nitrogen too. :thumbs:
Thx y'all! Great info!
02-19-2006, 07:35 PM
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Well, two tires are losing pressure. That's how I know.
And I have three tire pressure gauges giving me the exact same readings (my recorded numbers above are not from a single gauge).
But there are too many variables to really determine why the tire didn't show air seeping out when submerged that day.
One very possible reason could be that on that day the ambient temps and the tire temps from driving the car to Discount Tire could have been high enough to make the materials expand enough to seal the leak.
But there are hundreds more reasons better and worse than that one. Good question though. I was asking myself that too... too many variables really.
And unfortunately this is seeming like one of those cases where I'll never know *exactly* what the cause is. And it could be a combination of factors. But if the remedy procedures fix the issue permanently then that is all that matters to me.
Cheers,
-Smoky
And I have three tire pressure gauges giving me the exact same readings (my recorded numbers above are not from a single gauge).
But there are too many variables to really determine why the tire didn't show air seeping out when submerged that day.
One very possible reason could be that on that day the ambient temps and the tire temps from driving the car to Discount Tire could have been high enough to make the materials expand enough to seal the leak.
But there are hundreds more reasons better and worse than that one. Good question though. I was asking myself that too... too many variables really.
And unfortunately this is seeming like one of those cases where I'll never know *exactly* what the cause is. And it could be a combination of factors. But if the remedy procedures fix the issue permanently then that is all that matters to me.
Cheers,
-Smoky
02-20-2006, 10:04 PM
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I got a few calls about their valve stem leaking, I ask them to bring it to a wheel/tires tech and they check and the valve stem wasn't tighten correctly.. After that they have no more problem..
02-21-2006, 06:41 AM
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I think extreme temps have something to do with it too, because the air leaks at a faster rate when the temp drops below freezing. Being in SoCal you may not have to worry about that. Lucky. :-)
02-21-2006, 02:27 PM
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Update:
Had the metal valve stems replaced today with rubber ones. So far, so good (crossing fingers, praying, knockin on wood, etc...).
I kept the Volk metal valve stems that were removed from the wheels. When the techs did the swap they found that valve stems were extremely loose. They also found that these Valve stems have no rubber grommit to create a seal. Apparently they are metal-to-metal. Neither I nor the Discount Tire techs knew for sure if they are supposed to have grommits or not.
No grommit could explain why the leak accelerated in sub-freezing weather and stopped in warmer weather. It could also be the reason why they were loose.
They also found that the metal valve stem had carved a small chunk out of the bead from one tire. Now I have to keep an eye on that tire (and all the others, cuz I'm still paranoid about it). You could see that the metal valve stem had begun to corrode and left rust on the tire where the chunk had come out. But the techs were hopeful that the missing chunk was not big enough to prevent the bead from sealing.
In other interesting news... Discount Tire cautioned me that they are technically not supposed to work on modified wheels that do include the tire pressure monitor when the tire pressure monitor was included OEM. I find this difficult to believe since the tire pressure monitor law is not up for review until 2007. Since safety and emissions regulations are never grandfathered, it is simply not appropriate for these vendors to deny service for this reason. We discussed this and they decided to simply not call it in, and perform the service. Crazy stuff huh? I can understand if they won't DO the modification, but if the sensor was removed before they even saw the car for the first time then why would it matter? In what court would a customer be able to hold the tire shop liable for a mod that they did not perform??
I'll post another update in a few days so I have a chance to observe the tire pressures during this time.
Cheers,
-Smoky
Had the metal valve stems replaced today with rubber ones. So far, so good (crossing fingers, praying, knockin on wood, etc...).
I kept the Volk metal valve stems that were removed from the wheels. When the techs did the swap they found that valve stems were extremely loose. They also found that these Valve stems have no rubber grommit to create a seal. Apparently they are metal-to-metal. Neither I nor the Discount Tire techs knew for sure if they are supposed to have grommits or not.
No grommit could explain why the leak accelerated in sub-freezing weather and stopped in warmer weather. It could also be the reason why they were loose.
They also found that the metal valve stem had carved a small chunk out of the bead from one tire. Now I have to keep an eye on that tire (and all the others, cuz I'm still paranoid about it). You could see that the metal valve stem had begun to corrode and left rust on the tire where the chunk had come out. But the techs were hopeful that the missing chunk was not big enough to prevent the bead from sealing.
In other interesting news... Discount Tire cautioned me that they are technically not supposed to work on modified wheels that do include the tire pressure monitor when the tire pressure monitor was included OEM. I find this difficult to believe since the tire pressure monitor law is not up for review until 2007. Since safety and emissions regulations are never grandfathered, it is simply not appropriate for these vendors to deny service for this reason. We discussed this and they decided to simply not call it in, and perform the service. Crazy stuff huh? I can understand if they won't DO the modification, but if the sensor was removed before they even saw the car for the first time then why would it matter? In what court would a customer be able to hold the tire shop liable for a mod that they did not perform??
I'll post another update in a few days so I have a chance to observe the tire pressures during this time.
Cheers,
-Smoky
02-21-2006, 03:53 PM
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Glad to hear that you figured it out......really odd that you didnt have grommet though. Every volk wheel comes boxed with a complete valve stem assembly pre-assembled.... none the less glad it all worked out.
02-17-2008, 12:45 PM
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sorry to bring up an old thread, but iu have a slow leak and it bubbles ever 20 or so sec from the valve area? How do you tighten it. Does the tire have to come off? thanks
02-17-2008, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by blknjz
sorry to bring up an old thread, but iu have a slow leak and it bubbles ever 20 or so sec from the valve area? How do you tighten it. Does the tire have to come off? thanks
02-18-2008, 07:43 AM
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Sounds like the valve stem area.
I got fed up with the leaking metal valve stem real quick. Sure they look cool, but the seal they form really sucks. Especially if you live somewhere where the temps drop below freezing, causing the metal stem to contract and leak even faster.
My recommendation is to go have all your stems swapped for good ol reliable rubber ones. Are they as "pimp"? No. But after 10 minutes you won't notice the difference. And they work reliably.
Just my 0.02. I'm sure plenty of folks will chime in with their personal stories of success with metal valve stems... You decide!
Cheers
I got fed up with the leaking metal valve stem real quick. Sure they look cool, but the seal they form really sucks. Especially if you live somewhere where the temps drop below freezing, causing the metal stem to contract and leak even faster.
My recommendation is to go have all your stems swapped for good ol reliable rubber ones. Are they as "pimp"? No. But after 10 minutes you won't notice the difference. And they work reliably.
Just my 0.02. I'm sure plenty of folks will chime in with their personal stories of success with metal valve stems... You decide!
Cheers
02-18-2008, 07:48 AM
#20
I also had a bad Rays valve stem a few weeks ago.. I was sent a new one and compared the two.. The old stem had a rubber seal only on one side.. The new stem has rubber on both sides where it meets the rim to create a seal.. Im not sure why Rays doesnt make sure all of the stems are inspected for these defects..