Do Not Buy Falken Tires!!
03-15-2008, 04:25 PM
#102
New Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: small home.
Posts: 10,459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DDS_RACER
I appreciate the support I've gotten from most of you. I've been silent lately because I wanted to take the time to reflect objectively on this matter and respond when I was ready to look at this from all angles and set aside my biases. Also, for those of you who don't know me, I'm in my last year of dental school. Hence, I don't get to play very much on here during the week as I am completely consumed by clinic and lab work.
Almost a week has passed since this incident. I've had the chance to calm down, read all the posts, and also talk with people who I trust and are well-informed. There are several theories that consistently surface in this thread and in my conversations with others. I will discuss ideas which have probable merit in this case, but obviously methodologies that would provide the most accurate and conclusive findings would best be saved for forensic analysis (as someone already mentioned). However, the work of such scientific analysis would be pricey and I would not have the resources to do that. Therefore, despite the exchange of reliable information in this section, this discussion remains speculative at best. There's no harm, however, in trying to understand what caused my tire to fail so that others can learn from this and prevent a similar occurence.
Let me also take the time to address information requested by some which I failed to share...that of my offset sizes. Front: 18 x 8.5, Rear: 18 x 9.5. It was not my intention to hide this information from anyone (how could I...it's public information on the Wheelmax.com website). The reason I didn't come out with this information from the get-go was because I knew my offsets were a non-issue in this case. These offsets are within normal limits given my tire sizes, and thus should not be given anymore further consideration.
Tires just don't violently blow-up! This begs the question, what caused my left-rear tire to fail on me during a normal highway commute? After all there was no debris on the road, no pot holes I encountered, and no noticeable road hazards. The tire appeared sound; most of the tread remained; there was no weathering degradation evident. The vehicle was kept inside away from weathering elements. In short there was nothing to indicate a potential problem. Tire pressure was at mfgr's specification. No noticeable road hazards were encountered. What then? I will discuss three possibilities (in no particular order) that in my estimation hold the most merit:
#1 This one was so apparent as to a contributing factor that frankly I was annoyed at myself for not noticing this. As some have mentioned, the thread indices on the tires were such that they were in need of replacement and thus I was driving on "borrowed time." If this is the case, clearly I would accept responsibility for my tire's blowout. Part of why I posted pics in the first place was so I could get advice/possible clues as to the cause of this. Obviously figuring out how much tread I have left does not require a forensic scientist -- when I get some time, I will take the blown tire along with the (intact) right rear tire (for comparison purposes) to a tire replacement shop for an opinion.
#2 Another contributing factor, brought up by many, was that my tire was improperly inflated, specifically under-inflated. In my last post, I discounted this theory because I check my tire pressure regularly, keep my car in meticulous mechanical condition, and because for the simple fact that I am certain I did NOT have a low pressure reading to begin with. However, a good friend of mine as well as some keen readers posted, that it would have been possible to get a low reading had a foreign object punctured my tire unbeknownst to me, which slowly caused a leak, causing the subsequent loss of pressure and overheating. After careful examination of the tire, I did not find any evidence of a foreign object which could have caused this. Could the foreign object have been expelled during the blow-out? Absolutely. But it's been my experience with previous flat tires that foreign objects, such as nails, don't just bounce off once they've penetrated the tire....in fact, they are usually still found while the tire is being repaired. Also, because the distance between point A (home) and point B (the location of the blowout) was less than 4 miles I really don't think this is sufficient enough time for a tire to become overheated to the point of failure IF one is driving conservatively. Had I been speeding, driving aggressively, or perhaps taking a long distance trip maybe, but I was not...it was a Sunday evening cruise, the weather was cool, around 65-75 deg (versus 100+ degree Texas heat), and I was taking my time driving. I'm really skeptical that this is what caused the tire failure.
#3 The last possibility I will consider pertains to subpar tire manufacturing process. The following information supports this as a valid consideration:
"Of all the known problems resulting in tire tread and belt separation, the leading cause of belt separation is failure of the metal tire components to stick to the rubber. The method most often used to bond these elements involves plating the metal with brass and then applying a rubber compound containing sulfur. If the sulfur and other compounds are not to the correct mixture, then incomplete adhesion occurs. If the brass plating is allowed to oxidize, poor adhesion will likely occur. If there is a shiny brass look to the belts, then most likely there was a deficiency in the tread bonding process, which could also be compounded by other defects. Tread and belt separations can also occur from poor adhesion of the tire components. Poor adhesion results from the use of old and expired adhesives, improper temperatures and unclean manufacturing facilities used in the manufacturing process. Poor adhesion may also be the result of contaminants introduced during manufacturing such as rust, moisture, oxidation, grease, sawdust, gum wrappers and even cigarette butts."
"Many tires sold in the U.S. look normal but may have defects or manufacturing short-cuts that lead to fatal car accidents.
Although it comes as a shock to most consumers, many tire-manufacturing companies employ short-cuts to reduce the cost of products and labor in the tire manufacturing process. The bottom-line profit drives many tire manufacturers to produce large quantities of tires with low overhead.
As an example, tire-manufacturing workers are paid on a commission or pay plus bonus basis, which creates a powerful incentive for factory workers to complete as many tires as possible on each shift in order to maximize their personal income. As a result, quality control in tire manufacturing can be minimal and possibly superficial which leads to the subsequent distribution of millions of substandard or defective tires.
Another way tire manufacturers try to save money is by reducing the strength and durability of a tire - thereby shortening the integral lifespan of the rubber and thread, forcing the consumer to replace the tires more frequently."
In case anyone wonders what to do in the event of a blowout I found this (interestingly I did this instinctively):
"The proper action following a blow-out is to slightly accelerate. This will keep the vehicle momentum constant and will compensate for the pulling of the vehicle towards the flat tire. The steering wheel should be held straight and firm. Once the vehicle is under control and away from traffic, the driver should decelerate or brake lightly to stop the vehicle."
In conclusion, any one of these reasons could be responsible for the blowout I encountered. In the process of researching this topic I read some horrible and real eye-opening statistics on the number of fatalities of victims with blow-outs on highways, specifically, which occur on rear tires (as was mine). Again, I truly feel like I was being watched over on that day. At any rate, as far as where I stand among these 3 possibilities....for one, I've eliminated possibility #2 for the several reasons I listed above. Possibility #1 is still pending further examination from a tire repair specialist (I'm pretty sure any competent employee working at a tire shop can tell me if the tire was past its recommended age based on tread pattern). If possibility #1 can be ruled out, #3 by process of elimination would represent my best guess here. Again, all this is speculative. I will consider changing the title of this thread when new light is shed on this case....I got to get some sleep now.
Almost a week has passed since this incident. I've had the chance to calm down, read all the posts, and also talk with people who I trust and are well-informed. There are several theories that consistently surface in this thread and in my conversations with others. I will discuss ideas which have probable merit in this case, but obviously methodologies that would provide the most accurate and conclusive findings would best be saved for forensic analysis (as someone already mentioned). However, the work of such scientific analysis would be pricey and I would not have the resources to do that. Therefore, despite the exchange of reliable information in this section, this discussion remains speculative at best. There's no harm, however, in trying to understand what caused my tire to fail so that others can learn from this and prevent a similar occurence.
Let me also take the time to address information requested by some which I failed to share...that of my offset sizes. Front: 18 x 8.5, Rear: 18 x 9.5. It was not my intention to hide this information from anyone (how could I...it's public information on the Wheelmax.com website). The reason I didn't come out with this information from the get-go was because I knew my offsets were a non-issue in this case. These offsets are within normal limits given my tire sizes, and thus should not be given anymore further consideration.
Tires just don't violently blow-up! This begs the question, what caused my left-rear tire to fail on me during a normal highway commute? After all there was no debris on the road, no pot holes I encountered, and no noticeable road hazards. The tire appeared sound; most of the tread remained; there was no weathering degradation evident. The vehicle was kept inside away from weathering elements. In short there was nothing to indicate a potential problem. Tire pressure was at mfgr's specification. No noticeable road hazards were encountered. What then? I will discuss three possibilities (in no particular order) that in my estimation hold the most merit:
#1 This one was so apparent as to a contributing factor that frankly I was annoyed at myself for not noticing this. As some have mentioned, the thread indices on the tires were such that they were in need of replacement and thus I was driving on "borrowed time." If this is the case, clearly I would accept responsibility for my tire's blowout. Part of why I posted pics in the first place was so I could get advice/possible clues as to the cause of this. Obviously figuring out how much tread I have left does not require a forensic scientist -- when I get some time, I will take the blown tire along with the (intact) right rear tire (for comparison purposes) to a tire replacement shop for an opinion.
#2 Another contributing factor, brought up by many, was that my tire was improperly inflated, specifically under-inflated. In my last post, I discounted this theory because I check my tire pressure regularly, keep my car in meticulous mechanical condition, and because for the simple fact that I am certain I did NOT have a low pressure reading to begin with. However, a good friend of mine as well as some keen readers posted, that it would have been possible to get a low reading had a foreign object punctured my tire unbeknownst to me, which slowly caused a leak, causing the subsequent loss of pressure and overheating. After careful examination of the tire, I did not find any evidence of a foreign object which could have caused this. Could the foreign object have been expelled during the blow-out? Absolutely. But it's been my experience with previous flat tires that foreign objects, such as nails, don't just bounce off once they've penetrated the tire....in fact, they are usually still found while the tire is being repaired. Also, because the distance between point A (home) and point B (the location of the blowout) was less than 4 miles I really don't think this is sufficient enough time for a tire to become overheated to the point of failure IF one is driving conservatively. Had I been speeding, driving aggressively, or perhaps taking a long distance trip maybe, but I was not...it was a Sunday evening cruise, the weather was cool, around 65-75 deg (versus 100+ degree Texas heat), and I was taking my time driving. I'm really skeptical that this is what caused the tire failure.
#3 The last possibility I will consider pertains to subpar tire manufacturing process. The following information supports this as a valid consideration:
"Of all the known problems resulting in tire tread and belt separation, the leading cause of belt separation is failure of the metal tire components to stick to the rubber. The method most often used to bond these elements involves plating the metal with brass and then applying a rubber compound containing sulfur. If the sulfur and other compounds are not to the correct mixture, then incomplete adhesion occurs. If the brass plating is allowed to oxidize, poor adhesion will likely occur. If there is a shiny brass look to the belts, then most likely there was a deficiency in the tread bonding process, which could also be compounded by other defects. Tread and belt separations can also occur from poor adhesion of the tire components. Poor adhesion results from the use of old and expired adhesives, improper temperatures and unclean manufacturing facilities used in the manufacturing process. Poor adhesion may also be the result of contaminants introduced during manufacturing such as rust, moisture, oxidation, grease, sawdust, gum wrappers and even cigarette butts."
"Many tires sold in the U.S. look normal but may have defects or manufacturing short-cuts that lead to fatal car accidents.
Although it comes as a shock to most consumers, many tire-manufacturing companies employ short-cuts to reduce the cost of products and labor in the tire manufacturing process. The bottom-line profit drives many tire manufacturers to produce large quantities of tires with low overhead.
As an example, tire-manufacturing workers are paid on a commission or pay plus bonus basis, which creates a powerful incentive for factory workers to complete as many tires as possible on each shift in order to maximize their personal income. As a result, quality control in tire manufacturing can be minimal and possibly superficial which leads to the subsequent distribution of millions of substandard or defective tires.
Another way tire manufacturers try to save money is by reducing the strength and durability of a tire - thereby shortening the integral lifespan of the rubber and thread, forcing the consumer to replace the tires more frequently."
In case anyone wonders what to do in the event of a blowout I found this (interestingly I did this instinctively):
"The proper action following a blow-out is to slightly accelerate. This will keep the vehicle momentum constant and will compensate for the pulling of the vehicle towards the flat tire. The steering wheel should be held straight and firm. Once the vehicle is under control and away from traffic, the driver should decelerate or brake lightly to stop the vehicle."
In conclusion, any one of these reasons could be responsible for the blowout I encountered. In the process of researching this topic I read some horrible and real eye-opening statistics on the number of fatalities of victims with blow-outs on highways, specifically, which occur on rear tires (as was mine). Again, I truly feel like I was being watched over on that day. At any rate, as far as where I stand among these 3 possibilities....for one, I've eliminated possibility #2 for the several reasons I listed above. Possibility #1 is still pending further examination from a tire repair specialist (I'm pretty sure any competent employee working at a tire shop can tell me if the tire was past its recommended age based on tread pattern). If possibility #1 can be ruled out, #3 by process of elimination would represent my best guess here. Again, all this is speculative. I will consider changing the title of this thread when new light is shed on this case....I got to get some sleep now.
03-15-2008, 07:51 PM
#103
New Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think the OP is a moron.. possibly a nail was stuck in the tire.. slowly leaking.. then decided to go flat during the highway commute... at those speeds wouldn't it be possible to shred a tire like that? i mean.. happens to semi's and cars all the time on the highway *shrugs* and yeah, those tires looked pretty worn.. guessing OP prolly shoudn't gun it everywhere
03-15-2008, 09:01 PM
#104
Originally Posted by 3m wol8
i think the OP is a moron.. possibly a nail was stuck in the tire.. slowly leaking.. then decided to go flat during the highway commute... at those speeds wouldn't it be possible to shred a tire like that? i mean.. happens to semi's and cars all the time on the highway *shrugs* and yeah, those tires looked pretty worn.. guessing OP prolly shoudn't gun it everywhere
03-15-2008, 09:09 PM
#107
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by davidv
Tires are made from petroleum distillates. Oil comes from the Middle East. George Bush invaded Iraq. I see something much bigger than a simple blow-out.
03-15-2008, 09:36 PM
#109
New Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2TH PWR
I PM'ed the OP. Looks like it blew up due to wear to me, perhaps in combination with low tire pressure.
03-15-2008, 10:28 PM
#110
Well, the OP is the dumbass who noticed there was a problem which caused his car to pull to one side, yet he didn't pull over to inspect what magically changed since he didn't hit anything or debris.
So, he notices a problem, ignores the problem, then when problem becomes emphasized, he says it shouldn't have happened.
OP, you should've pulled your *** over, instead you put your own safety at risk as well as everyone else's safety at risk when you continued to drive your vehicle knowing that there was a problem.
So, he notices a problem, ignores the problem, then when problem becomes emphasized, he says it shouldn't have happened.
OP, you should've pulled your *** over, instead you put your own safety at risk as well as everyone else's safety at risk when you continued to drive your vehicle knowing that there was a problem.
03-16-2008, 04:15 AM
#111
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by russ713
Well, the OP is the dumbass who noticed there was a problem which caused his car to pull to one side, yet he didn't pull over to inspect what magically changed since he didn't hit anything or debris.
So, he notices a problem, ignores the problem, then when problem becomes emphasized, he says it shouldn't have happened.
OP, you should've pulled your *** over, instead you put your own safety at risk as well as everyone else's safety at risk when you continued to drive your vehicle knowing that there was a problem.
So, he notices a problem, ignores the problem, then when problem becomes emphasized, he says it shouldn't have happened.
OP, you should've pulled your *** over, instead you put your own safety at risk as well as everyone else's safety at risk when you continued to drive your vehicle knowing that there was a problem.
I'll respond to your comments, but to insult me as I am trying to learn from this experience myself is unnecessary.
Had I pulled over and inspected the tire right away, would I have been able to tell that I was on the verge of a blow-out? I seriously doubt it. I don't think one can predict this just by conducting a simple observation. Also I don't think most people currently driving with a misalignment, including myself prior to this event, are aware of just how dangerous it can be:
"...Driving in a vehicle without proper alignment is a dangerous idea. A car that is out of alignment can pull or drift away from a straight road, resulting in a possibly fatal situation. Excessive tire wear—another result of bad car alignment—can lead to tire blow-outs and poor traction, which also has potentially disastrous consequences..."
If you took the number of people currently driving with a misalignment and told them to pull over onto the shoulder of a busy hwy to inspect their tires, how many people would actually perform this inspection especially given the fact they thought their tires were in fairly brand new condition? This was my first set of performance tires and they had less than 10K miles on them; therefore, the possibility of a blowout was the last thing that crossed my mind on that day as a potential consequence....
I'll state again, it was a very slight veer to the left not anything that would raise any serious concerns or red flags from what I knew at the time about a misalignment. Obviously if I knew it was indicative of a more serious, underlying problem I would have pulled over and had my Z towed. Hindsight is 20/20...
Last edited by DDS_RACER; 03-16-2008 at 04:52 AM.
03-16-2008, 04:36 AM
#112
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 3m wol8
i think the OP is a moron.. possibly a nail was stuck in the tire.. slowly leaking.. then decided to go flat during the highway commute... at those speeds wouldn't it be possible to shred a tire like that? i mean.. happens to semi's and cars all the time on the highway *shrugs* and yeah, those tires looked pretty worn.. guessing OP prolly shoudn't gun it everywhere
Where the hell did you read that I "gun it everywhere"? As far as the foreign object possibility, this has already been discussed and acknowledged. And yes at those speeds it is possible for a tire to shred....duh! You obviously don't read very well or just choose to be a d!ck, either way I've got no time for your BS -- your name is now on my ignore list.
Last edited by DDS_RACER; 03-16-2008 at 05:03 AM.
03-16-2008, 04:43 AM
#113
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2TH PWR
I PM'ed the OP. Looks like it blew up due to wear to me, perhaps in combination with low tire pressure.
You have PM.
03-16-2008, 05:25 AM
#114
So out of no where you start to have a slight pull and you brushed it off knowing that the roadway was clear and you didn't hit anything?
When a tire goes low on air the handling characteristics of a vehicle change. From the sounds of it, you're not used to the feeling or know what to look for.
For a future tip, if you notice a similar feeling in the future, pull over and check.
btw, how many miles were on the tires?
When a tire goes low on air the handling characteristics of a vehicle change. From the sounds of it, you're not used to the feeling or know what to look for.
For a future tip, if you notice a similar feeling in the future, pull over and check.
btw, how many miles were on the tires?
03-16-2008, 08:23 AM
#115
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DFW
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by russ713
So out of no where you start to have a slight pull and you brushed it off knowing that the roadway was clear and you didn't hit anything?
When a tire goes low on air the handling characteristics of a vehicle change. From the sounds of it, you're not used to the feeling or know what to look for.
For a future tip, if you notice a similar feeling in the future, pull over and check.
btw, how many miles were on the tires?
When a tire goes low on air the handling characteristics of a vehicle change. From the sounds of it, you're not used to the feeling or know what to look for.
For a future tip, if you notice a similar feeling in the future, pull over and check.
btw, how many miles were on the tires?
That's correct: I noticed the slight misalignment on the highway 30 seconds before the blowout occured. Although I'm embarrassed to admit b/c I know I was idiot back then, when I would drive to campus (not on the Z but on my daily driver), I remember going upward to a week on a noticeable misalignment for longer spans at higher speeds, with much older tires, and never encountered any serious consequence. That's why on that day my logic (but lack of wisdom) told me that on fairly new tires and with very minor misalignment I should be okay as long as I drive conservatively. This experience has taught me that I am in need of some training as far as what characteristics to look for in a tire.
The number of miles I would estimate to be approx less than 10K.
Last edited by DDS_RACER; 03-16-2008 at 08:32 AM.
03-16-2008, 11:06 AM
#116
New Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DDS_RACER
Russ,
That's correct: I noticed the slight misalignment on the highway 30 seconds before the blowout occured. Although I'm embarrassed to admit b/c I know I was idiot back then, when I would drive to campus (not on the Z but on my daily driver), I remember going upward to a week on a noticeable misalignment for longer spans at higher speeds, with much older tires, and never encountered any serious consequence. That's why on that day my logic (but lack of wisdom) told me that on fairly new tires and with very minor misalignment I should be okay as long as I drive conservatively. This experience has taught me that I am in need of some training as far as what characteristics to look for in a tire.
The number of miles I would estimate to be approx less than 10K.
That's correct: I noticed the slight misalignment on the highway 30 seconds before the blowout occured. Although I'm embarrassed to admit b/c I know I was idiot back then, when I would drive to campus (not on the Z but on my daily driver), I remember going upward to a week on a noticeable misalignment for longer spans at higher speeds, with much older tires, and never encountered any serious consequence. That's why on that day my logic (but lack of wisdom) told me that on fairly new tires and with very minor misalignment I should be okay as long as I drive conservatively. This experience has taught me that I am in need of some training as far as what characteristics to look for in a tire.
The number of miles I would estimate to be approx less than 10K.
03-21-2008, 07:23 PM
#117
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even with a good alignment our Zs have accelerated wear on the inside shoulder of the rear tires. You have to kneel down and look at them.
I check and adjust my alignment if needed every month and I get the wear.
I check and adjust my alignment if needed every month and I get the wear.
03-21-2008, 10:29 PM
#119
New Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Motormouth
guys, this just in:
DO NOT BUY KFC TWISTER SANDWICHES. Mine seriously was dripping out the bottom when I ate it. I could've died. or something, or atleast got messy.
DO NOT BUY KFC TWISTER SANDWICHES. Mine seriously was dripping out the bottom when I ate it. I could've died. or something, or atleast got messy.
