Originally Posted by illjim69

O

Similar products come out all the time, it's called free market.

Originally Posted by The_VQ

Sorry, you got me wrong, I don't really care what you buy, don't really care what you put on your car, it is your life, your choices.

Nope, I don't buy anything for the name, I buy something because I appreciate the design, appreciate the craftsmanship, appreciate the work somebody had put into that product, I don't care about marketing, I am more proud of high quality things made by some bordeline, not widely known manufacturer, than big names, the name is irrelevant. I rather save up to buy the product which satisfies my high standards, than cheap imitation... I really don't give of f**k if people will think I do this to impress them, the certains things I buy are for me, not for the others.

The problem is, when it comes to the wheels it is simple, price tag in most of the cases equals quality of both design and craftsmanship...and if the design is stolen, there's your answer why something is cheap and worth nothing for me...

Originally Posted by illjim69

Thing is, it isn't like Rota owners are rampaging threads talking about how stupid Volk owners are for spending money on wheels. Quite the opposite. Wheel snobs enter threads all the time for no reason other than to talk down to people.



And we would all be rolling on stock wheels. Who gives a crap? Welcome to the consumer market. Volks and Works won't sell for a certain price that people are willing to pay......then someone will just make a similar wheel for less money.

Originally Posted by stradaONE8

I told you, it doesn't matter how much you paid or why, that's your business. Like it's my business that I chose to pay for Volks. But telling people that they don't need forged Volks because it's a daily driver is a little odd when you drive what you do to work. Also, 30k is in reference to MSRP.

I was merely pointing out how your argument of necessity is moot because IT'S ALL unnecessary. What you see as 'value' is probably gross overspending to some people who are poorer than you. They likely can see your car already came with wheels, so why/how is it any more necessary/value based to buy another whole set of wheels no matter if they cost 1k or 3k? Step outside of your own perspective for a moment.

The argument is stupid and used far too often by people riding on replicas to make it seem like their purchase was ever so justified because it was only 1k. This argument it about ethics, not perceived value/qualty/service or any of the other issues people use to side step the point at hand.

No innovators, no replicators...

Originally Posted by Cux350z

Umm no its not. If the major players in the market stopped playing by not releasing new designs then the "similar" products would not come out.

Iphone and Blackberry storm are similar products that do mostly the same thing. They are not replicas or knockoffs of each other.

Now the Meizu M8 is a replica/knockoff of the Iphone

Originally Posted by illjim69

Ummmm, YES, it is. If the "major players" didn't make something that people wanted, someone else would. It's the way our economic system works. Supply and demand. Just like if all the car makers in America went out of business, sombody would take over in their absence. There is always another company or person out there with ideas and products. So don't act like if Ray's didn't make a certain wheel design, that design would have never been made. Same can be said about the iPhone. Someone would have come out with it if Apple didn't.

Originally Posted by doug

actually the IPhone isn't an orginal design either.. the first touch screen smart phone was the LG Prada..

Originally Posted by doug

YOUR Argument is stupid... so you would judge someone's car if they had Rota's? are you all of a sudden better than them? LOL amazing

Originally Posted by illjim69

Ummmm, YES, it is. If the "major players" didn't make something that people wanted, someone else would. It's the way our economic system works. Supply and demand. Just like if all the car makers in America went out of business, sombody would take over in their absence. There is always another company or person out there with ideas and products. So don't act like if Ray's didn't make a certain wheel design, that design would have never been made. Same can be said about the iPhone. Someone would have come out with it if Apple didn't.

Originally Posted by stradaONE8

WTF? I just said, it doesn't matter what anyone buys or how much they spend it's a personal decision and no one should judge. I know plenty of people who have Rotas that are friends...

I was pointing out the car thing as a counter example to his argument that people don't need Volks for daily driving. Similarly one could say he doesn't need a sports car for that either, it's a silly argument against buying expensive wheels...

My whole point is we shouldn't judge each other at all based on what the other buys. My gripe is with replica producers not buyers? I'm not even sure how you got that from my statement, but ok...?

Anyways, I'm bored with this, seems you all can't debate something objectively without making it all personal and crying about being judged...or actually stay on topic or follow a logic train of thought for that matter, but hell, it's the internet...

Enjoy your wheels fellas, I'll be enjoying mine.

Originally Posted by stradaONE8

WTF? I just said, it doesn't matter what anyone buys or how much they spend it's a personal decision and no one should judge. I know plenty of people who have Rotas that are friends...

I was pointing out the car thing as a counter example to his argument that people don't need Volks for daily driving. Similarly one could say he doesn't need a sports car for that either, it's a silly argument against buying expensive wheels...

My whole point is we shouldn't judge each other at all based on what the other buys. My gripe is with replica producers not buyers? I'm not even sure how you got that from my statement, but ok...?

Anyways, I'm bored with this, seems you all can't debate something objectively without making it all personal and crying about being judged...or actually stay on topic or follow a logical train of thought for that matter. Yes, it's about being a snob...right. But hell, it's the internet...can't really expect much.

Enjoy your wheels fellas, I'll be enjoying mine.

Originally Posted by The_VQ

You know how mesh style wheels were born? It was not because people wanted it, they didn't even know something similar could exist...Mesh style wheels were designed when back in the 70s and 80s german companies were looking for a way to build a lightweight wheel with a large load capacity, by optimizing various ideas they came up with a new type of wheel. Why I am bringing this? Because it was a true R&D, it was a true innovation, sure if Rays wouldn't make a certain wheel type (not the design), their competition would probably do, but the competition in the same league of technological sophistication, and Rota doesn't belong to this league. Tell me what innovations they do? Do they experiment with new wheel materials like carbon fiber or titanium? Do they experiment with new casting or forging methods? Nope... they replicate somebody's else ideas, nothing besides this.

Originally Posted by doug

ok i may have misunderstood your statements.. thats fine.. but why be mad at Rota? as long as they arn't calling their wheels Work then it shouldn't matter.. as i said.. Work, Volk, HRE and Iforged have simular wheels.. should you get mad at Work or Volk? HRE? IForged? or would it matter if Rotas were made in Japan and cost $1000 a wheel? would it be better then?

Originally Posted by bomber

Get over yourself. The message i consistently put forward was I don't need them. Don't put words in my mouth, it makes you look weak.

Originally Posted by bomber

The point I've been stressing all along is they are oranges and apples. Most folks with daily drivers do not need forged wheels. We consititute a separate and distinct market segment from those who need or want the level of prformance you get from a forged wheel. Let me make this clear for you. Forged wheels are stronger and lighter than cast wheels. The point is, I do not need that level of performance for my daily driver.

Originally Posted by stradaONE8

If Rota made their own designs, I have said many times, I'd probably buy a set for a regular DD. They seem to make a decent product for the price and their reputation among owners is solid, makes sense to me.

It has nothing to do with price, it has to do with all but carbon copying a design. I find that morally bankrupt and have stated why many times. Thus I choose not to support them and voice my opinion that others shouldn't either based on innovation and ethics, not about being cheap.

My arguments are always twisted into personal sob stories about being judged or just plain nonsense about Nissan copying cars...
It's tiresome to debate/converse with people that constantly put up strawman arguments and deflect...

Originally Posted by doug

well like i said.. Volk .. Work... HRE... IForged.. they all don't have simular design.. why not **** on them too?

Originally Posted by stradaONE8

ORLY?



I see that you said that you don't need them, but see the first bold part. You presume to say most people don't need them. You full well are right and I agree with you, most people don't. My argument was to simply point out why it's irrelevant what people need as we don't need any of it depending on your perspective. It was to debunk that argument as it is a very common one used by replica owners, not just you. It wasn't to attack you. Again, taking things a bit personally are we? Grow a bit thicker skin if you want to argue, don't cry when your point is rendered null.

/done

Originally Posted by stradaONE8

I found the quote button too. Again, being a bit sensitive? I debunked your argument once and explained it once more to someone who misread it. Unbunch your panties, jeez.

Anyways, I'm going out, it was a sloppy football day that I spent studying the majority of it.