WheelDude.com

iTrader: (58)

Once again more misinformation regarding Rota Wheels.. All current Rota Wheels and all Rota Wheels for the 350Z use low pressure casting.


Which wheel manufacture do you work for again?

-Dan

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

haha.

at least they admit to copying..

GeauxLadyZ

iTrader: (9)

I donno, Wheeldude stop responding.

GeauxLadyZ

iTrader: (9)

Low pressure.

The_VQ

iTrader: (5)

Update your website then.

bomber

iTrader: (1)

You made an assumption based upon a dark picture. Maybe you should do better research


Funny how many people who are crying "support the companies that come up with original designs......" are unpaid members here. I got an idea, how about supporting this forum?

stradaONE8

iTrader: (2)

First, many unpaid members here are premier members at our own respective forums, ever notice how G35driver, myG37, my350, etc are all linked up as they are owned by IB?

But more importantly for those who are just regular members currently, supporting this forum has what to do with optionally supporting a company with unique wheel designs by purchasing their product? Draw me a parallel, please.

bomber

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for pointing out that you and others maybe paid members via G35driver, myG370, etc. Didn't consider that.

As far as parallels are concerned, I'm not sure why I need to state the obvious. At the base level, it's an opinion just like those who think I should only buy certain products. On the next level, it comes accross as disingenuous to fault others for not supporting companies by purchasing $3000 wheels when they haven't even ponied up 1% of that to support this website.

YMMV

stradaONE8

iTrader: (2)

Fair enough, but this isn't even about supporting the companies that make 3000 dollar wheels. The people with 1000 dollar budgets are not considering those more high end wheels, so those respective companies aren't really losing profit from customers not even thinking about making that purchase.
Mackin Industries (Rays, etc) could give a crap about Rota because most budget customers won't consider their products anyways, so their customer share isn't really affected. Those people who want the real thing rarely will settle for a set of knock offs.

But there are plenty of more 'budget' wheel companies that make their own designs and try to make a unique product that are overlooked because companies like Rota, Linea, Drag, R-1, Ruff, etc etc piggyback on the success of proven designs from Volk, Work, BBS. And as I explained before, this disincentivizes those companies from making unique wheels at a relatively lower pricepoint.

This is why you don't see Dan ever reply to me, only to those with 'misinformation' about how they friggin cast their wheels...
But he avoids any of the REAL ethical points I bring up like the plague.
Now if another company came out and made a budget budget wheel that was a Rota knockoff and started to eat into his market share, I guarantee you his feathers would be ruffled.

You run Work CR Kai knockoffs, maybe you can or can't afford the real thing. I don't care and it doesn't matter, it's a personal choice how much to spend on wheels. But for what you spent on your Rotas, you could have easily supported a company making their own design but you wanted the look of Works without paying the actual price. That's BS to me, because if Rota didn't make a knockoff you'd easily find another wheel for that price that looked just as good if not better...

The_VQ

iTrader: (5)

Do some research on why I have my350z picture in my profile... you will find other so called "free" members having the same, guess why.

bkultra

iTrader: (2)

That is the same point I was making in my post (the one you quoted). I own the TE37s, but I did not want people to think all manufacturers produce forged monoblocks. In my original post I pointed out most forged wheels are 2 or 3 pieces, because they are. I tried to be fair and honest with my comparisons. I often suggest people buy an original wheel design, but I will not use false claims about Rota's quality to get them to side with me. I pointed out the differences in the quality, strength, and weight without being dishonest.

bomber

iTrader: (1)

In my post above I already pointed out I hadn't considered that some folks joined the forum thru one of the sister sites.

Highway Riding

iTrader: (6)

+1 it's getting old. If you like a wheel and can afford it then buy it and enjoy it. Honestly if you look at any of the wheels other than the baller boys ie: (volk, work, ame, hre, etc..) the wheels are all heavy as *&^% and all have crappy looking rivets and chrome lips and or crappy offsets. I think it's cool that a company like Rota can offer an alternative specifically for Z owners and other highly desirable car like BMW, Subaru, etc..

The_VQ

iTrader: (5)

Thing is, there are cheaper companies offering good quality wheels (strong and light), yet not copycatting any designs, for example see Enkei.

Or better, a more recent example - Vossen, they have stormed the market of luxury wheels with a decent product but nowhere near as good as Volk or HRE. Yet they are not copying anything, every single design is their own, and it seems they are doing wheel on the market. I have a lot of respect for them for their lineup, which I cannot tell about Linea Corse.

WheelDude.com

iTrader: (58)

The reason I don't reply to your posts is because it's all opinion. Every month or two there is a new "member" who goes on a tirade against Rota Wheels and or WheelDude. You have your opinion on the subject and I have my opinion, it is obvious we see things different so why should I debate it with you in every single thread?

There are other companies that do this, you mentioned one company in your posts which is Drag Wheels. They have a lower price and offer many wheels that are exact copies in terms of appearance. There are also other vendors that take images we use for marketing and use them in their emails, posts, and or Ebay listings to help sell wheels (wheel pictures, images of the wheels on cars, etc..). There is really nothing I can do about this, so instead of crying about it, I work hard on areas that I can control. We pride ourselves in offering great customer support (can be seen in our itrader rating/reviews of various forum members), stocking all of our items so we can get our customers their orders in a timely manner, offering fitments/sizes/colors other wheel manufactures don't, actually visiting the manufacture so we know 100% everything about the product we carry, etc.. It may not be as apparent in this market however in other markets some manufactures don't offer wheels in certain fitments, don't offer certain colors, require special ordering which takes 3+ months to arrive, etc.. You mention risk when making a new style but that is just one aspect of the big picture.


Yes, all current Rota's are inspired by other wheel designs. This doesn't mean every wheel is an exact copy though as you describe. The SVN has a larger lip, the Grid has more concave, the Torque has a different spoke shape, etc.. (read below for my full response on this)
You mention the Rota DPT which is a new model we just released. Upon the release of this wheel I marketed it as a Rota Wheel because that's exactly what it is.. If I was to say "Here's a brand new CE28 replica" that would be unethical in my opinion. By saying it's a replica I am implying that it's made of the same materials, it uses the same manufacturing process, etc.. and it's an exact reproduction of the Volk Racing CE28 wheel. The Rota DPT is not though and this is why I market it as a Rota Wheel. This is why our wheels come in a Rota Wheel box, they come with Rota Wheel center caps, and they have no markings on the wheel to imply that it's a Volk Racing product.

A very fine example was posted earlier in this thread regarding a body kit.
Post for reference
https://my350z.com/forum/7771514-post25.html

Forum member "TSG-Z" was under the impression that this kit is a "replica" and thus it must have the same/better materials, the same/better fitment, etc.. but because it's a "replica" it is priced at a much lower price than the original product. This is clearly not the case though as pointed out by forum member "engiNERD350Z" in his post regarding this body kit. I feel that by saying it's a "replica" you are implying that it's the exact same product, which to me is misleading.


-Dan

GeauxLadyZ

iTrader: (9)

Dan, you life on this forum is an uphill battle, and you make the best of it....ill give you that, man.

You catch alot of shet on here for sure. Are the Bimmer forums and such just the same?

You need to start new trend: PDM"!!!

quakerroatmeal

iTrader: (9)

I seriously don't know how Dan deals with it. Dudes a great guy with top notch customer service.

And The VQ.. The thing is people want those wheels but they cannot afford it thus having to go with a replica for cheaper. I still see it the same way as buying a Shine Nismo V2 instead... which 99.9% of the people on this board do. I like volks rota's and all but if it's going to cost me taking out a loan to purchase some volks..I'd deal with the replica.

stradaONE8

iTrader: (2)

First, thanks for actually replying. You have never done that before to any of the points I bring up. To me that conveyed a message that you had nothing to say to me. However, you'll note that I never bash your quality or your service. I have said many times for the price point, you make a very nice product. I even mentioned your solid reputation among your buyers and the people who you sponsor on the track or vice versa. I'm not some brand nut hugger who thinks Volk/Work/etc are God's gift to cars, they are just wheels. I just appreciate their quality and their originality but I offer equal opportunity critiquing. I don't like the Volk G10, I don't really like a lot of Volks 2 pieced options. I don't like a majority of Work wheels...I judge based on what I like not on brand loyalty or any of that crap.


Risk and originality is a major aspect of any business. You and I both know that. Quality and service are a matter of caring to strive for that, but you can have those in spades and never have an idea people want. Plain and simple. That is the hardest part.

Products succeed when demand is high, and that comes from making something people want, if you can't do the latter, it doesn't matter how much service you can offer. As for waiting lists, buy a Ferrari, there is a list. That means demand is high, not service is low.

I help my friend run business that stemmed from his very original idea in my limited spare time. A large part of my anger towards companies like Rota and etc, comes from people we have talked to and have essentially stolen our idea and gone to people to undercut us with a knockoff version of it because it's not against the law. It's ********, it's not honorable. There isn't much of that left in the world, but instead of looking down upon a lack of it, it's brushed aside more and more.

I can understand your frustration when people steal your work, but your wheels, while not 100% replicas, ARE design copies. I could ask 100 random people with the pictures I posted of the 10 spoke wheels and I guarantee 95 of them would ID the Rota and the Drag is copies of the CE28. Not just my 'opinion', it's how it is.

But, again see above where I have never knocked your quality or service, not once.


Yes, well no kidding it's not a 100% replica, but again, you know exactly how close they are and how you arrived at each design. It's not as if you started with a blank sheet of paper and stumbled to that final draft that was just a bit off in angle and lip from an existing wheel that happens to be selling like hotcakes. You and I both know that. You pick the designs to 'inspire' you because you know people want the real thing but wont work to get it so that is your niche. But those people could afford other wheels that cost less and are unique but wont because you offer them a way to get what other people have, minus the cost. This makes it harder for companies not using your 'inspirational' model to design wheels to succeed...if this plays out long enough, we are stuck with one great original and hundred progressively shittier copies of it. Then who are you going to copy off?

Your market is cut out for you to have to do as little as possible when coming up with a new wheel. That to me is moral relativism and ********. That is my opinion, but again, come up with a truly original idea and have someone copy it 99% and pretend it's theirs, and you will understand. I'm not sure you've really had that happen other than had some pictures stolen, and look how it made you feel.


I can make chicken parmesan a hundred ways, but just because it has a little less parm and bit more tomato sauce doesn't change what it is nor does it matter if I added a bit less salt and my chicken was processed meat instead of organic free range. It's chicken parm.

I get that your wheels are not 100% identical in material or spec, but in a jury of 100, I guarantee 95% side with me that it's a replica and not a 'inspired' or 'reimagined' design. It's chicken parm, just not as good.


I get your argument and I get why you don't market it as a replica. But again, you pretend like it's not completely based off something that exists, not to mention that exists with many many people wanting it. But when it comes down to it, people wouldn't throw Volk or BBS stickers on what you sell if they and you didn't know it happened to be just a bit more than similar to something people wanted...


You say it's just my opinion, but my opinion is backed while your seems to rely on minor nuances in definition to make you look not as bad as you might really be in terms of copying designs. But again, thanks for replying, I do appreciate it.

The_VQ

iTrader: (5)

So 99.9% have bought the Z because they couldn't afford 911?

Replica wheels are like sporting fake watch Rota is not only giving nothing to the industry, but their whole business is a major step back (why, because they make business much harder for honest producers, who do their R&D - BBS nearly went down because of the replicas, huge OEM orders have saved them), this is why I have no respect for Rota.

bomber

iTrader: (1)

There are a lot of folks here who do not understand Marketing and Product Development in the real world.