Spacers vs. Offsets... confused
03-10-2011, 06:10 PM
#1
Spacers vs. Offsets... confused
Ok, bear with me in my ignorance. I'm trying to understand why people get spacers period. Why do people choose spacers over just getting rims that are offset correctly to begin with?
Example:
Get a rim with a +25mm offest vs. Getting rim with no offset and a 25mm spacer
I'm confused on why spacers are needed at all. Wouldn't an offset rim set the rims out more flush without the need of spacers, or am I confused on what the meaning of "offsets" is?
I have read the spacer FAQ and all the stickies on the subjects... quite frankly its pretty confusing. Please no flames, I'm just trying to learn.
With that being said lets have another example here.
Example:
Lets say I want to buy some 19" rims that are 10.5" wide and no offset. I understand that tire size has something to do with the offset you need, but I'm unclear why. I know you can fit a 285 tire on this particular rim size. (yes I know fender roll is needed)
So a 19" rim with a 285 tire. If I where to buy this set-up, I understand I need to measure the tire to the fender to see how big of a spacer I would need to make it flush. Lets say its 20mm.
Is there any difference at all between buying the 20mm spacer to make it flush, or buying the rim with a +20 offset?
Sorry for the long read, just trying to figure out what's going on before I start buying rims and such. Any intelligent input is much appreciated!
Example:
Get a rim with a +25mm offest vs. Getting rim with no offset and a 25mm spacer
I'm confused on why spacers are needed at all. Wouldn't an offset rim set the rims out more flush without the need of spacers, or am I confused on what the meaning of "offsets" is?
I have read the spacer FAQ and all the stickies on the subjects... quite frankly its pretty confusing. Please no flames, I'm just trying to learn.
With that being said lets have another example here.
Example:
Lets say I want to buy some 19" rims that are 10.5" wide and no offset. I understand that tire size has something to do with the offset you need, but I'm unclear why. I know you can fit a 285 tire on this particular rim size. (yes I know fender roll is needed)
So a 19" rim with a 285 tire. If I where to buy this set-up, I understand I need to measure the tire to the fender to see how big of a spacer I would need to make it flush. Lets say its 20mm.
Is there any difference at all between buying the 20mm spacer to make it flush, or buying the rim with a +20 offset?
Sorry for the long read, just trying to figure out what's going on before I start buying rims and such. Any intelligent input is much appreciated!
03-10-2011, 06:29 PM
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offset vs spacer
I'm no expert, but in my case the following figured into my decision -
Offset also determines where the face of your wheel is within the lip of your wheel. Some people may want the face to be X inches deep into the lip of the wheel, but also want the edge of their wheel flush with their fender.
By choosing the offset that they like to place the face of the wheel at the appropriate depth for the asthetic look of their wheel and lip to be pleasing - and then choosing a spacer to make the distance between wheel edge and their fender - the best of both worlds can be had.
I'm sure one of the experts on here can elaborate, but these were the simple two facts that affected my decisions on offset & spacers.
Offset also determines where the face of your wheel is within the lip of your wheel. Some people may want the face to be X inches deep into the lip of the wheel, but also want the edge of their wheel flush with their fender.
By choosing the offset that they like to place the face of the wheel at the appropriate depth for the asthetic look of their wheel and lip to be pleasing - and then choosing a spacer to make the distance between wheel edge and their fender - the best of both worlds can be had.
I'm sure one of the experts on here can elaborate, but these were the simple two facts that affected my decisions on offset & spacers.
03-10-2011, 08:57 PM
#3
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This will help you a little http://www.1010tires.com/wheeloffsetcalculator.asp
19x10.5 +0 (Zero offset) will not clear with a 285/35-19. Lets take a typical rear setup, 19x10.5 +22 (clears the tires you mention) then add a 22mm spacer. The spacer pushes the wheel 22mm further out, this also now makes your wheel a +0 offset.
Play around on the offset calc, stock rear wheels are 8.5 wide with 33 offset. Common setup is 10.5 +22, +12 and 0 offset. Hope this helps.
19x10.5 +0 (Zero offset) will not clear with a 285/35-19. Lets take a typical rear setup, 19x10.5 +22 (clears the tires you mention) then add a 22mm spacer. The spacer pushes the wheel 22mm further out, this also now makes your wheel a +0 offset.
Play around on the offset calc, stock rear wheels are 8.5 wide with 33 offset. Common setup is 10.5 +22, +12 and 0 offset. Hope this helps.
03-10-2011, 09:25 PM
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ok... your examples are wrong. NOT trying to be a dick, trying to help. when an offset is said to positive (+20 for example) it is 20mm TOWARDS the car, 0 offset means that it is centered (as per the wheels i mean). then negative (-) offset is pushed out more AWAY from the car. So the difference is that with a spacer it pushes it away from the car making the offsets lower. a plus 20mm offset wheel, therefore, is actually 40mm away from a no offset, or 0 offset, wheel with a 20mm spacer because that would make it a -20mm offset. i hope that helps and wasnt too wordy...
easy way...
positive offset is closer to car and negative or lower offsets are away from car... so spacers push the wheels out for more flush if the wheel doesnt have good (low) offset...
easy way...
positive offset is closer to car and negative or lower offsets are away from car... so spacers push the wheels out for more flush if the wheel doesnt have good (low) offset...
03-10-2011, 09:49 PM
#5
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"good (low)offset" is dependent of the car. For wide tires on a Z good offset should be 20 to 30, where if your dealing with a C6 Z06 you would run a +70 rear offset!!!! Some people are just dumb and think everything should have a single digit or lower offset.
03-10-2011, 10:01 PM
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Lower (single digit) the better in my honest opinion.
03-10-2011, 10:03 PM
#7
Not all wheels are available in "flush" offsets, nor does everyone want a low offset wheel. Plus, you can dick with wheel placement by running a low offset "aggressive" with an improperly small tire (stretch).
Plus, as people lower their cars, get more willing to roll fenders, and/or add more camber, that changes the placement of the wheel. So today my 19x10.5 +28 with a 305/30/19 tire sits nicely because it's a fatty, but tomorrow I get ill and decide to run a 225/35/19 tire and stuff a 25mm spacer to make up for the lack of tire width. Now I sit at 10.5 +3 with a 225, but I'm cool cuz my reeemz poke out from the car, but the tires tuck in since they're too small. I changed my mind - I added spacers. I got medicine which cured my sickness, and went back to standard sized rear tires (275-305 on a 10.5) and tossed the spacers.
Plus, as people lower their cars, get more willing to roll fenders, and/or add more camber, that changes the placement of the wheel. So today my 19x10.5 +28 with a 305/30/19 tire sits nicely because it's a fatty, but tomorrow I get ill and decide to run a 225/35/19 tire and stuff a 25mm spacer to make up for the lack of tire width. Now I sit at 10.5 +3 with a 225, but I'm cool cuz my reeemz poke out from the car, but the tires tuck in since they're too small. I changed my mind - I added spacers. I got medicine which cured my sickness, and went back to standard sized rear tires (275-305 on a 10.5) and tossed the spacers.
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03-10-2011, 11:07 PM
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i said low or good because most people want to tun +12 or +22 or somewhere in between which is LOWER and BETTER than stock offsets... like someone else said... this had nothing to do with anything BUT the Z... either way if the OP wants flush or just a nice look i dont think a higher offset, esp. on a wide wheel, will work or look particular nice on a Z... i would like more info on what he wants as far as looks go and what he wants as far as performance... sorry if i sounded like a douche at all...
03-11-2011, 04:49 AM
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Terrasmak and Scott300 will know better than me, but I look at this as either you're going to compromise or use the best looking offset for your wheel and the best spacer for flushness.
Compromise
---------------
Do most people use only wheel offset to make the wheel close to flush and sacrifice the best placement of their spokes in the lip? If so, I would consider this a compromise since you're trying to accomplish two different goals with one moving part.
Best Offset
-------------
I want to run whatever offset makes my wheel look good, so that is the only thing that I consider when looking at the offset of the wheel.
If my wheel would look good with the spokes/face deep set and a big lip, I'm going to choose a more negative offset (move the spokes towards the car). If my wheel looks best with the spokes/face closest to the rim with no lip, I'm going to choose a positive offset (move the spokes away from the car).
Best Spacer
--------------
I want to then run whatever spacer makes my wheel sit flush with the fender by using a caliper to measure the space and choose the appropriate spacer to move the wheel out to where I want it.
Possible Gotchas
--------------------
I do realize that:
1) if I pick a very wide wheel with a negative offset (big lip) and fat tire with relatively neutral camber that it may already be close to the fender without any spacer. (i.e. 19x10 0 offset 295/35R19)
2) if I pick a very wide wheel with too much negative offset (huge lip) and fat tire with relatively neutral camber, the edge could sit out past the fender and rub (i.e. 19x10 -20 offset 295/35R19)
3) if I pick a very wide wheel with too much positive offset (no lip) that is not concave with a fat tire and relatively neutral camber, I won't be able to mount the tire because it will hit the inside wall of the fender before my tire can reach the studs for mounting
4) if I'm running stretched tires (low tire width compared to wheel width) versus fat tires (wide tire width compared to wheel width), this will have an impact on "flushness"
5) if I'm running more/less camber (tilting the top of the tire inward for more negative camber), this will have an impact on "flushness"
I'm not sure how everyone else tackles it, but that's how I look at it. I may pay more for the look that I want by paying for spacers as well as a custom offset, and the spacers do add rotational mass/weight... but if I'm picky about the look, I feel that I must make the best decisions using BOTH offset and spacer.
Compromise
---------------
Do most people use only wheel offset to make the wheel close to flush and sacrifice the best placement of their spokes in the lip? If so, I would consider this a compromise since you're trying to accomplish two different goals with one moving part.
Best Offset
-------------
I want to run whatever offset makes my wheel look good, so that is the only thing that I consider when looking at the offset of the wheel.
If my wheel would look good with the spokes/face deep set and a big lip, I'm going to choose a more negative offset (move the spokes towards the car). If my wheel looks best with the spokes/face closest to the rim with no lip, I'm going to choose a positive offset (move the spokes away from the car).
Best Spacer
--------------
I want to then run whatever spacer makes my wheel sit flush with the fender by using a caliper to measure the space and choose the appropriate spacer to move the wheel out to where I want it.
Possible Gotchas
--------------------
I do realize that:
1) if I pick a very wide wheel with a negative offset (big lip) and fat tire with relatively neutral camber that it may already be close to the fender without any spacer. (i.e. 19x10 0 offset 295/35R19)
2) if I pick a very wide wheel with too much negative offset (huge lip) and fat tire with relatively neutral camber, the edge could sit out past the fender and rub (i.e. 19x10 -20 offset 295/35R19)
3) if I pick a very wide wheel with too much positive offset (no lip) that is not concave with a fat tire and relatively neutral camber, I won't be able to mount the tire because it will hit the inside wall of the fender before my tire can reach the studs for mounting
4) if I'm running stretched tires (low tire width compared to wheel width) versus fat tires (wide tire width compared to wheel width), this will have an impact on "flushness"
5) if I'm running more/less camber (tilting the top of the tire inward for more negative camber), this will have an impact on "flushness"
I'm not sure how everyone else tackles it, but that's how I look at it. I may pay more for the look that I want by paying for spacers as well as a custom offset, and the spacers do add rotational mass/weight... but if I'm picky about the look, I feel that I must make the best decisions using BOTH offset and spacer.
03-11-2011, 05:01 AM
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"safe distance" from mounting surface to fenders
@Terrasmak
I know that each car is going to be a little bit off, but wouldn't it help if there was an offset calculator with an extra field for the safe distance from the wheel mounting surface/plane to the inner fender well and outer fender well so that people could calculate their offsets and see how close that puts them to the inside and outside limits?
I know that this "safe distance" would vary depending on tire overall diameter and suspension drop (along with camber/caster/toe) since the wheel well is rounded and the "safe distance" decreases as you increase the OD or drop the suspension, but I've always wished that I could see the "whole picture" in a calculator before actually purchasing.
The more that I think about it, the more I can see that it would be difficult (especially considering camber/caster/toe differences can greatly vary how much "safe distance" a person might have to work with).
I know that each car is going to be a little bit off, but wouldn't it help if there was an offset calculator with an extra field for the safe distance from the wheel mounting surface/plane to the inner fender well and outer fender well so that people could calculate their offsets and see how close that puts them to the inside and outside limits?
I know that this "safe distance" would vary depending on tire overall diameter and suspension drop (along with camber/caster/toe) since the wheel well is rounded and the "safe distance" decreases as you increase the OD or drop the suspension, but I've always wished that I could see the "whole picture" in a calculator before actually purchasing.
The more that I think about it, the more I can see that it would be difficult (especially considering camber/caster/toe differences can greatly vary how much "safe distance" a person might have to work with).
03-11-2011, 05:31 AM
#12
Not all wheels are available in "flush" offsets, nor does everyone want a low offset wheel. Plus, you can dick with wheel placement by running a low offset "aggressive" with an improperly small tire (stretch).
Plus, as people lower their cars, get more willing to roll fenders, and/or add more camber, that changes the placement of the wheel. So today my 19x10.5 +28 with a 305/30/19 tire sits nicely because it's a fatty, but tomorrow I get ill and decide to run a 225/35/19 tire and stuff a 25mm spacer to make up for the lack of tire width. Now I sit at 10.5 +3 with a 225, but I'm cool cuz my reeemz poke out from the car, but the tires tuck in since they're too small. I changed my mind - I added spacers. I got medicine which cured my sickness, and went back to standard sized rear tires (275-305 on a 10.5) and tossed the spacers.
Plus, as people lower their cars, get more willing to roll fenders, and/or add more camber, that changes the placement of the wheel. So today my 19x10.5 +28 with a 305/30/19 tire sits nicely because it's a fatty, but tomorrow I get ill and decide to run a 225/35/19 tire and stuff a 25mm spacer to make up for the lack of tire width. Now I sit at 10.5 +3 with a 225, but I'm cool cuz my reeemz poke out from the car, but the tires tuck in since they're too small. I changed my mind - I added spacers. I got medicine which cured my sickness, and went back to standard sized rear tires (275-305 on a 10.5) and tossed the spacers.
I chuckled
03-11-2011, 05:37 AM
#13
In my case, wheels I got (Advan RS-D) weren't avaiable in a lower offset which I would have preferred - but I really liked the wheel and had to have them. Added spacer to have it the wheels more flush.
Won't be my last/only set anyway so next time i will get the wheels done to not need the spacers.
Won't be my last/only set anyway so next time i will get the wheels done to not need the spacers.
03-11-2011, 08:26 AM
#14
ok, I think everyone's input was helpful. I suppose when finally figure out what rims I want I'll try and see the available offsets the rims come in first. From there I'll just have to find pictures to see what the tire size I want will look like on each offset. Once I find the one I like then I'll add spacers to sit it flush. With as wide as my tire will be, I doubt it will clear and I'm going to have to roll my fenders.
I see now why people choose spacers with offsets, mainly becuase I didn't realize it affected the look of the tire to the rim. Thanks guys, appreciate the help.
Now to decide on the 10million differnt rims to chose from...
I see now why people choose spacers with offsets, mainly becuase I didn't realize it affected the look of the tire to the rim. Thanks guys, appreciate the help.
Now to decide on the 10million differnt rims to chose from...
03-11-2011, 09:16 AM
#15
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@Terrasmak
I know that each car is going to be a little bit off, but wouldn't it help if there was an offset calculator with an extra field for the safe distance from the wheel mounting surface/plane to the inner fender well and outer fender well so that people could calculate their offsets and see how close that puts them to the inside and outside limits?
I know that this "safe distance" would vary depending on tire overall diameter and suspension drop (along with camber/caster/toe) since the wheel well is rounded and the "safe distance" decreases as you increase the OD or drop the suspension, but I've always wished that I could see the "whole picture" in a calculator before actually purchasing.
The more that I think about it, the more I can see that it would be difficult (especially considering camber/caster/toe differences can greatly vary how much "safe distance" a person might have to work with).
I know that each car is going to be a little bit off, but wouldn't it help if there was an offset calculator with an extra field for the safe distance from the wheel mounting surface/plane to the inner fender well and outer fender well so that people could calculate their offsets and see how close that puts them to the inside and outside limits?
I know that this "safe distance" would vary depending on tire overall diameter and suspension drop (along with camber/caster/toe) since the wheel well is rounded and the "safe distance" decreases as you increase the OD or drop the suspension, but I've always wished that I could see the "whole picture" in a calculator before actually purchasing.
The more that I think about it, the more I can see that it would be difficult (especially considering camber/caster/toe differences can greatly vary how much "safe distance" a person might have to work with).
03-11-2011, 10:18 AM
#17
Just me, but...
Spacers (usually) < $300-$400
New rims + tires?...yeah you could get wayyy up around $4k just for rims if you go the BBS or Volk route.
If you like your current rims, why not run a spacer to bring 'em out a little and run a bit fatter tire? Personally, I think a 265/40 on the rear of my stock Track V1 Rays with a 20-25mm spacer is going to look great and still give me the performance I need...That's a 10.4in. rear tire.
I figure I can save plenty of money going the spacer route, get a good look, and an improvement in performance...then I can put my $$$ into other stuff until I NEED a wider tire someday.
Just my .02
Spacers (usually) < $300-$400
New rims + tires?...yeah you could get wayyy up around $4k just for rims if you go the BBS or Volk route.
If you like your current rims, why not run a spacer to bring 'em out a little and run a bit fatter tire? Personally, I think a 265/40 on the rear of my stock Track V1 Rays with a 20-25mm spacer is going to look great and still give me the performance I need...That's a 10.4in. rear tire.
I figure I can save plenty of money going the spacer route, get a good look, and an improvement in performance...then I can put my $$$ into other stuff until I NEED a wider tire someday.
Just my .02
03-11-2011, 12:19 PM
#19
Just me, but...
Spacers (usually) < $300-$400
New rims + tires?...yeah you could get wayyy up around $4k just for rims if you go the BBS or Volk route.
If you like your current rims, why not run a spacer to bring 'em out a little and run a bit fatter tire? Personally, I think a 265/40 on the rear of my stock Track V1 Rays with a 20-25mm spacer is going to look great and still give me the performance I need...That's a 10.4in. rear tire.
I figure I can save plenty of money going the spacer route, get a good look, and an improvement in performance...then I can put my $$$ into other stuff until I NEED a wider tire someday.
Just my .02
Spacers (usually) < $300-$400
New rims + tires?...yeah you could get wayyy up around $4k just for rims if you go the BBS or Volk route.
If you like your current rims, why not run a spacer to bring 'em out a little and run a bit fatter tire? Personally, I think a 265/40 on the rear of my stock Track V1 Rays with a 20-25mm spacer is going to look great and still give me the performance I need...That's a 10.4in. rear tire.
I figure I can save plenty of money going the spacer route, get a good look, and an improvement in performance...then I can put my $$$ into other stuff until I NEED a wider tire someday.
Just my .02
also, wheels don't cost 4 grand unless you buy some seriously expensive ones.
SSRs can be had under 2 grand
plenty of decent enkeis for 300-400/wheel
heck, I have been quoted just over 3 grand for some custom colored volk TE37s
