Hello all,

I recently purchased a 2006 Enthusiast 5AT. The previous owner installed a set of American Racing Special Edition wheels (Torq Thrust M - by the looks) in the factory specs (225/45/18F and 245/45/18R). I have no idea what the offset may be. He installed Hankook Ventus V4es 225/45/ZR18 95W Front and 245/45/ZR18 100W.

I would like a more balanced, agile, and nimble feel. Reading through much of the information on this site and others I learned that a square setup will help to reduce the understeer for a more a balanced vehicle. I also learned that 265/35/18 wheels are used quite often in square setups.

I am not looking to run the car on the track, except for high performance driving lessons. I intend it to be a mountain road car and daily driver. I am considering Enkei RPF1 wheels (if I can find some Volk TE37s I would prefer them, but I am not sure I need such a high performance wheel). Is it possible to run 265/35/18 with a +30 offset sizes without rolling the front and rear fenders?

As I have read through the plethora of information I noticed that several questions were asked about using a square wheel setup but with different tire sizes. For example, one poster indicated using 18x9.5 +22 in all four corners with 255/40/18F and 275/40/18R. Why not use the same size tire all around? Is there a performance benefit for having different tire sizes on the same size wheels?

Thanks,

BWD

 

FWIW, a stock 225/245 setup can be just as nimble and balanced as a fat meat stagger setup. It's all about the tire itself. Sure, a like for like same type/brand tire with only the size being different, say 225/245 versus 245/275 will have some disadvantage in the smaller tire set up but ONLY at maximum grip. Before that, the stock set is going to be more responsive and more lively.

You are driving on an all season tire, which by sheer virtue of its intended purpose is a compromise tire. The marketeers would have you believe it does great in any weather condition when in reality, it's best to look at it with a jaded eye... "It doesn't do great in either condition."

I assure you, you dump those for a set of sticky Bridgestone or Michelin or ____________, you will see the night and day difference. I am not down on all seasons at all just because I live in "summer tire year 'round" country. No, there's a place for them. But based on your desire seeking the attributes of a performance tire, I'm just saying you can do better, wheel upgrade or not.

OK, personally, I don't see the need to run a square setup. Yes, it helps to reduce understeer to some degree due to the upsized front contact patch and allowing the rears to break traction first. BUT, honestly, 95% of the time, drivers aren't ever pushing their cars hard enough and in demanding enough conditions for this to make any real world difference and of those, probably less than half could tell you when a car is doing either until it's too late.

But if it's square you want, you can go with the a 265 square set up but MOST ASSUREDLY, NOT a 35 aspect tire. Too low.

Here's the most available 18" sizes to consider:

225 45% 18 25.97 Stock Reference Size F
245 45% 18 26.68 Stock Reference Size R

245 40% 18 25.72 Front Alt.
255 35% 18 25.03
255 40% 18 26.03 Front Alt.
255 45% 18 27.04
265 35% 18 25.30
265 40% 18 26.35 Rear/Square Alt
275 35% 18 25.58
275 40% 18 26.66 Rear/Square Alt
285 30% 18 24.73
285 35% 18 25.85
285 40% 18 26.98
295 30% 18 24.97
295 35% 18 26.13
295 40% 18 27.29
305 35% 18 26.41
305 40% 18 27.61

As you can see from this, the only 35 aspect you can run on the rear would be a 305...

Oh, and finally, your last question about equal wheel size, stagger tire set up... most often done for clearance purposes AND to keep the wheel speed sensor happy (which triggers VDC and/or TCS). The tolerance between F&R wheel speed is a height delta of 3%. Technically, anything less than that will trigger it... but a lot of people run square wheel/tire with no probs.

 

MicVelo,

Thanks for your detailed and very helpful reply. As soon as posted I found even more information that you had offered another poster. I greatly appreciate your experience and willingness to share your knowledge. Please allow me to reconsider, utilizing your feedback then return with a better plan. Thanks again.

BWD

 

I just upgraded from stock to 245/40-18 front and 265/40-18 rear... I like the combo. Went with Hankook Ventus RS3 which is a high performance summer tire. Car has tons more grip on the track and the tires just look better. I know many around here go with different rims, varied offsets or add spacers, but just putting 1" wider tires helped fill out to the mud flaps (both front and rear). These tires were about as wide as I could go on the OEM V2 Touring wheels.

 

Im running 275/35r18 square on a base model and i love it.

However, others who drives my car has things they like to say about the amount of oversteer, but i usually counter with: "you just need to go to driving school" lol

(Half true and half stab at mic)

 

Ya missed.

I am impervious to jesters and jokers. Heh heh.....

But I'll say it again.... don't care if no one heeds my advisement. It's worked for me and my family and at the end of the day, dazzall dat matters. Done and done.

 

trust me mic, if i hadnt already, i wouldve gone to driving school because of you. infact, base on your reply from the other thread. i plan to send my child to driving school.

 

To follow up on the driving school for kids topic; I sent my daughter out with a road race car driver several times to learn how to feel the vehicle. She aced the driver's test and has shown to be a pretty solid driver since. Nothing is better than experience, but at least she understands the power of a vehicle and has a glimpse into what they can and cannot do, at her level. She is not a race car driver by any stretch, but I am confident that she is better than most young people her age.

Thanks for the tire and wheel feedback. I have decided to run 18x9.5 with 255/40 upfront. I am contemplating running 19" wheels in the rear, but I think I will be better served rolling the rear fenders and going with 18x10.5 with 275/40/18 both with +15 offset.

I agree with MicVelo that a new tire will better and I will most likely see a big difference there, but I would like to reduce the unsprung weight with a lighter wheel and I think the Ekei RPF1 will give me that. I most likely wait till my current tires are bad and make a full swap then.

Thanks for all of your input!

 

Thats a very popular set-up and looks and performs well. I dont believe you will have any fender clearance issue's even if you are lowered...

Anyways I just thought I would add some more things to think about... If you wanted to run a square set-up 245/40front 245/45 rear will work and keep your electronics happy. Lots of people like this set-up. The benefit of the smaller tire is the weight...

A 275/40/18 is probably going to weigh in around 29 lbs

A 245/45/18 is probably going to weigh in around 27lbs

Rear

A 255/40/18 is probably going to weigh in around 29lbs

A 245/40/18 is probably going to weigh in around 25 lbs
Front

I will now go check my estimates...

So if your looking to get less weight with nice enkei race wheels you might counteract any of the weight reduction with the heavier tires. Not like it will make a huge difference, just something to think about... The 18x9.5 will also save a pound over the 10.5 and can handle the 275/40 just fine

 

From what I can tell the American Racing wheels are 29-33 pounds per wheel. You are right, it may be a wash. I'll compile a list of tires, wheels and their weights to see if I am gaining anything.

Here is a pic of the car as it stands now....the wheels are growing on me, but I am not in love with them.

 

Was thinking that we're splitting hairs here but dayam.... 29-33lbs per wheel?!?!

I gots me a tuna boat in San Francisco bay that need those to keep it right in that one sweet spot for fishing.

Sheesh, was thinking Nismo V3 rears were heavy.....but these, dayam!

 

Damn mic I was going to say boat anchors also, even stock 18s are 24-26lbs... Any of the enkei racing or tuning series wheels available on tire rack would be a big improvement... Those wheels are nice, but look like they would be more at home on a mustang. Rpf1 and any tires would probably make nice big difference...

 

Ce28/te37 are 18lbs in 18x9.5 soooo double espresso anyone? (Probably only mic would get this joke)

Thats over a 10lbs difference in rotational mass per corner. It will REALLY wake up your car.

 

Wait, what?? Thought you sold da espresso soy skinny latte whills.....

On that note.... wait 'til you see my next test project (& post).


Hoooowheeee, I'ma git laffed at! Hahahaha!

 

Dem weels have mo weight dan my bench press.

Geebus, thats like 3 oz right dur. Lol

 

Good eye T'bo..... but a little off.... that there is 3.5 ounces of wheel weights!!! (And there's another .5oz on the opposite side of the wheel! That's a new one on me...) But yeah, bad news. But you'll understand why I even have these when I post up my test project.

But as far as overall weight, well..... 22lb rears, 21lb fronts. As Mike said earlier, even some factory 18s weigh a few lbs more than that.

 

To me over 3 oz means either the tires or the wheels are too imbalance for my preference lol.

Just a personalized thing. But i also believe its how the tires are mounted since theres a heavy side and light side to off balance to the valve stem.

 

I was a little off on the weight of my wheels, but they are still too heavy. It also appears that the wheels are 18x9F and 18x10R. Weights tend to differ, depending on the website, from 27-30 pounds. I decided to go with the number I saw most often, 29 pounds. I put together my current wheel and tire weights and 3 options in the attached chart. Not matter what I decide to do I should see an improvement. I would love to get the Volk TE37s unless I can find a used set I do not think they will be an option. Thank you guys so much for helping me learn.

BWD

 

Glad you're off those growing on you. Not a fan of AR on a Z

 

The car fell in my lap. The previous owner is in his 70s and must have loved the hot rod look. I can tolerate it, but I would rather have performance than looks. If the performance of an item is stellar I will love the looks because it has purpose. If I want looks without purpose, I'll build a model. :-)