I've read that a good set of tires can dramatically improve handling and braking, even more so than a trick suspension or big brakes. In that vain is there such a thing as a good set of trackable street tires? Since my 350Z is my daily driver, and I can foresee getting to a road course track 3-5 times a year, is there a good street tire that noticeably outperforms the RE040 on the track? I really cannot afford to have a separate set of r-compound tires and wheels. Are the BF Goodrich KDs as good as they say? Those full two-page adds are all over the place, and I'm starting to think about those.

Any thoughts?

 

TOYO T1S...

 

I think you will be able to find street tires that are marginally better than the stockers, but I don't think you will find something that makes a night and day difference.

If you want to make a significant difference I think you need to step up to R-compund tires.

As far as street tires go, I've heard only good things about the BFG KD's, and also about Goodyear Eagle DSG or something like that.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I know from AutoXing that it is difficult to be competitive on street tires, no matter how good they are.

-D'oh!

 

my personal favorites:

Bridgestone Potenza S-03 (I have them on my car -- fantastic tire)
Kumho Ecsta MX (Less expensive.. I plan to get them next)
BF Goodrich G-Force KD
BF Goodrich G-Force KDW2 (not quite as good as the KD)

 

I talked to one of the guys at Road Atlanta about this, and he was using the Bridgestone S-03 Pole Position on his club raced MR2. Normally he would have used race tires, but had to drive his car from Virginia and didn't have room to carry them. His experience was that there really is no comparison between high performance street and r-compound tires. And that the difference between stock tires and high performance street is only marginal. This was most evident when he was hussling his car around the course and got loose on two occasions. He said he definitely could not push the car as hard as he could have with the r-tires.

 

That is true, however the Re040s are absolute garbage, they get very greasy compared to the Toyos I have run. The toyos also have a great wear rating. I would attend a few more HPDE on better street tires before you step up to r compounds. With your Touring brakes, you probably have more immediate problems on the track.

 

I ran those Kumho MX's at Buttonwillow last time...I thought they were great. The break away smoothlly...nice big shoulder tread block so no chunking...wore pretty well overall...good grip...I'd give them a big thumbs up. I'd say they are possibly the best pure street tire I've run on the track...out of a 1/2 dozen or so over the past few years on different cars.

 

I plan on trying it this year...on Toyo T1-S. We shall see. The T1-S is/was a spec tire for one of the speedvision series IIRC.

Depending on how they hold up in the wear department, it might end up being cheaper to buy dedicated R-comps.

I've run SZ50s (basically S-02), and Kumho MXs on the track before and found them to perform adequately for HPDEs. Competition is a different story. I try not to get TOO crazy at the HPDEs...I like my car in the un-wadded version.

 

The TOYO T1S used to be the spec tire for one of the Speed challenge series... in 2003 they changed to TOYO RA1. I know of a few people who run the RA1 as their street tire and track tire. Not sure they make it for the 18" size the Z needs, but that is an option.

I used TOYO T1S at several HPDEs and they worked great. I would have bought them again, but they are a bit of a hassle to get. And, I have since gone back to R-compounds (Yokohama AO32R).

I have Bridgestone SO2s right now. I may try them at one HPDE just to see how they do. I suspect they will greatly outperform the RE040.

Other good choices
Yokohama AVS Sport
BFG KD (KDW if you expect to see wet weather a lot)
Goodyear F1-GSD3

Hope that helps,

PeteH

 

Some info that I found. Hope it helps.
------------------------------------------------

Tires .... which are best
We have broken down tires into several catagories and here is a short list of what I have experienced in our
testing. Now remember, we do not have every single tire line in the world so, if your particular favorite is
not in this list it is probably because we haven't tested it. Also, this is my take on the testing that I have
completed here at The Tire Rack on our test track.

Maximum Performance:
These are the absolute best performing tires on the market. Great steering response and wet/dry traction (not
for use in the snow!!!) which is at home on the track.

1.)S-03 Pole Position
2.)Pilot Sport
3.)S-02 Pole Position (discontinued)
4.)AVS Sport
5.)P-Zero Rosso

There is 1 glaring omission in this list. It is the BFG G-Force T/A KD. The reason for this tire not being on
the list is because of its lack of versatility. It is the best performing tire in the dry but, is almost scary
in the wet.

Ultra High Performance:
A step down form the Max tires but, still exceptional performance which fits most application for a street tire
that can be
driven very aggressivley.

1.) Firehawk SZ50 EP
2.) Potenza RE730's (extreme noise issues)
3.) A520
4.) G-Force KDW
5.) Sport 8000
6.) HTR Z II

3-6 are all very close in performance levels.
The noise issues of the 730's are mostly related
to larger/heavier cars with rear wheel drive.

Ultra High Performance All Season
Performance tires which are capable of going through the snow.

1.) Sport 5000
2.) Michelin Pilot Sport A/S
3.) AVS DB (quietest tire I have ever driven)
4.) BFG G-Force KDWS
5.) P7000 Super Sport

Budget Performance Tires
Summer performance with a cost effective tire when your budget is a concern. (based on performance not cost)

1.) Sumitomo HTR Z II
2.) Sumitomo HTR Z
3.) Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 (best ride quality in this group)
4.) Yokohama AVS Intermediate


I hope this helps you in your tire selections

Thanks, Luke@tirerack
800-428-8355 ext. 362

 

incase you don't know who makes the above referenced tires...

1.)S-03 Pole Position .....Bridgestone Potenza
2.)Pilot Sport .................Michelin
3.)S-02 Pole Position .....Bridgestone Potenza
4.)AVS Sport ..................Yokohama
5.)P-Zero Rosso .............Pirelli

 

its hard to beat the KD's in the dry( just ask Mcclasky ). but they are terrible in the wet for something like track days, but around town when its wet they are not bad.

 

I seem to always agree with J Ritt!

I get this question a lot from my students at HPDEs. The answer of course is that it depends on how much compromise you are willing to make in street driving or in track driving.

On the less aggressive side, I recommend a decent street tire with a solid shoulder and heat capacity. My personal favorite (currently) is the Kumho Ecsta MX because they are cheap and last a long time (beefy shoulder blocks). However, they do tend to overheat a bit and get a little greasy towards the end of a session. But most street tires do that. Otherwise, I think the S03s are good as well but a bit more expensive. KDs are great but expensive and hard to find. I really don't like the Toyo T1-S because of its soft, squishy sidewalls which really dull steering response. Of course, the more negative camber you have, the more street tires you can run without destroying the outer shoulder blocks. This opens the door to tires like to the S02 (I know they are discountinued) that are very good but don't last on a front-engined car with less than 2 degrees of camber.

On the other side of the spectrum, there are a bunch of DOT rated R-compounds that are streetable if you are willing to make compromises. Said compromises will be road noise, harshness, short life, poor hydroplaning resistance (particularly after half of their life). But you can do it (I have). Your options there are the Pilot Sport Cup, Pzero Corsa, Yoke A032R, Ecsta Victoracer or V700, Toyo RA1. I would not use Hoosiers on the street. Be aware that depending on street mileage between track events, you may exceed the heat cycle design life of these tires and while you may still have tread, they'll get very greasy on the track (I've driven A032Rs that still looked good but had less grip than a good street tire).

I hope this makes sense - I typed it in a bunch of small chunks.

Jason

 

Thanks for all the data. It's been pretty helpful. I have another question regarding the amount of wear the tires can take.

At the track, one of the drivers said that his S-03 were rated for so many "track" miles/sessions before they no longer provided the extra grip. Is there some kind quantitative designation given to high performance street tires that spells out how many "track" miles it can sustain?

It's also possible he may have been referring to his r-compound tires...

 

There is no real quantitative rating but based on previous experience, people can guage the durability of a tire. The most dependable and transferrable measure would be heat cycles (at least for track usage). So people can figure out more or less how many heat cycles you can get out of a set of tires before they start "going off".

Now, having said that, heat cycles are much more relevant for R-compounds than for streets. Street tires, if used aggressively, tend to die by running out of tread. The rubber compounds used are less temperature sensitive (work over a broader range of temperatures) and are less prone to losing their chemical structure after a certain number of street tires. Ultimately, if you're going with streets and you drive them on both street and track, you're going to be limited by tread wear on the outer shoulder. How long it lasts depends on the amount of camber on your car and your driving style.

Jason