19 Inchers and Performance Issues. My Perspective
02-24-2004 | 11:13 PM
#21
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From: Sesame Street
Originally posted by Bassmaster
I went from the stock Rays with Toyo T1-S to LE37T with Godyear F1 GS-D3 tires, the latter in 19" 245/275 35 combo. They are a little louder, and a little harsher, but not much. And performance wise I cant tell much of a difference either. My Rays will now be my "winter" rims (what an idiot). Maybe when I switch back I'll be able to feel something then, we'll see.
I went from the stock Rays with Toyo T1-S to LE37T with Godyear F1 GS-D3 tires, the latter in 19" 245/275 35 combo. They are a little louder, and a little harsher, but not much. And performance wise I cant tell much of a difference either. My Rays will now be my "winter" rims (what an idiot). Maybe when I switch back I'll be able to feel something then, we'll see.
You know I dont think many people would notice this performance loss, but I am very aware of these things. I have a pretty good but dyno too
I would notice power loss/gain on a daily basis. I really feel confident about this performance difference.
02-25-2004 | 12:02 PM
#24
My 19's were a couple pounds lighter than my stock track wheels and tires. The tire you select is a big factor in weight. Overall, my 4 wheels and tires are about 9-10lbs lighter than the stock track stuff. The tires I selected are also a tiny bit shorter than stock which yields a shorter gear ratio.
Did I notice any difference when changing wheels? No, but I only had 200 miles on the car when the stock wheels and tires were replaced with my new wheels.
Did I notice any difference when changing wheels? No, but I only had 200 miles on the car when the stock wheels and tires were replaced with my new wheels.
02-25-2004 | 08:53 PM
#27
Originally posted by sifuK
i say get 19s then ull notice a power loss be upset, then u have the excuse to get a turbo!!! yay!!!
i say get 19s then ull notice a power loss be upset, then u have the excuse to get a turbo!!! yay!!!
02-25-2004 | 09:58 PM
#28
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Re: 19 Inchers and Performance Issues. My Perspective
Originally posted by joust75
As some of you might know I have mounted my 19 inch TE-37s. 19x8.5 front +29 offset 19x9.5 rear +34 offset riding on Goodyear F1 rubber 255/35 and 275/35 respectively.
I have seen many threads in which people are torn between going 18 or 19s and I think that this little review might help those who have this indecision.
First off, the wheels look great. They fill up the fenders and they turn heads. The extra width on the rims and the extra rubber make a night and day difference in traction and handling. It has been raining pretty hard in So Cal and the F1s really inspire confidence in the rain. Their tread pattern also is excellent for rainy weather. I take corners in the rain at above the reccomended speed limit with out any fear. The car is very well planted.
Today the rain cleared and a friend of mine wanted a ride in the Z, so I decide to really test out the new wheel tire combo and put the car through the wringer. We drove through Rancho Santa Fe which has a limitless supply of twisties and I was able to formulate a strong opinion on my new wheels/tires. Going from track model wheels (18x8 front 18x8.5 rear Continental Conti Sport Contact 235/40 255/40) to these really made a difference. Some good some bad.
As I mentioned before, traction is great. I took corners hard. The car is now only held back by its suspension. When I get springs the car will be a menace to the corners!
However the extra weight albeit slight and increased diameter of the wheels took their toll in a number of ways.
#1 braking. I have the stock track Brembo Brakes with ss lines. Pedal effort is noticeably higher. I have to press the brakes harder to stop in the same distance. I have no doubts about this. The added rotational mass is harder on the brakes.
#2 As I said before the car sticks, but it is just noticeably less agile. I am not as sure about this as I am about the braking but I do notice it.
#3 Acceleration. Going from the heavy stock 17s and 18s to the lighter 19inch TE37s would probably be a seamless transition but going from 18lb trackers to the TEs made a huge difference in acceleration. My car basically feels like I am carrying 250lbs of extra weight. The throttle does not feel as responsive because of this extra rotational weight. I noticed this as soon as I put the wheels on. Again, the difference here is quite obvious.
So all in all seeing as I drive my car fast and hard on a daily basis, I believe I made a poor choice in wheels. I thought that the TE37s being some of the lightest 19 inchers on the market would produce no noticeable change in performance. I was wrong.
Dont get me wrong, I am not unhappy, but the loss in performance is something I will have to get used to. One of the reasons I got the TEs was so I could save the track model wheels for the track. but I stilll did not want a performance sapping wheel.
I will keep the TEs because they look so good, but if I had it to do over again. I would have gotten some fat 18x8.5 18x9.5. Do Luck Double six wheels weighing in at 14 lbs for these sizes come to mind. Or maybe SSR proffessor SP1s in 18 would have done, although not lighter than the Rays track wheel.
So there you have it. I have heard many talk about the performance issues of 18s vs 19s, but nothing very definitive. If I had read something like this I might be riding on 18s now.
My advice is if you are upgrading from track wheels, dont go 19 unless all you are after is bling, because you will feel a performance loss. If you are going from the stock 17s or 18s try to get a light weight 19. That way maybe you wont notice a performance loss. I cant say for sure because I have not experienced a before and after but its a pretty educated guess.
I hope this post helps some of you to make a more informed decision. Peace!
As some of you might know I have mounted my 19 inch TE-37s. 19x8.5 front +29 offset 19x9.5 rear +34 offset riding on Goodyear F1 rubber 255/35 and 275/35 respectively.
I have seen many threads in which people are torn between going 18 or 19s and I think that this little review might help those who have this indecision.
First off, the wheels look great. They fill up the fenders and they turn heads. The extra width on the rims and the extra rubber make a night and day difference in traction and handling. It has been raining pretty hard in So Cal and the F1s really inspire confidence in the rain. Their tread pattern also is excellent for rainy weather. I take corners in the rain at above the reccomended speed limit with out any fear. The car is very well planted.
Today the rain cleared and a friend of mine wanted a ride in the Z, so I decide to really test out the new wheel tire combo and put the car through the wringer. We drove through Rancho Santa Fe which has a limitless supply of twisties and I was able to formulate a strong opinion on my new wheels/tires. Going from track model wheels (18x8 front 18x8.5 rear Continental Conti Sport Contact 235/40 255/40) to these really made a difference. Some good some bad.
As I mentioned before, traction is great. I took corners hard. The car is now only held back by its suspension. When I get springs the car will be a menace to the corners!
However the extra weight albeit slight and increased diameter of the wheels took their toll in a number of ways.
#1 braking. I have the stock track Brembo Brakes with ss lines. Pedal effort is noticeably higher. I have to press the brakes harder to stop in the same distance. I have no doubts about this. The added rotational mass is harder on the brakes.
#2 As I said before the car sticks, but it is just noticeably less agile. I am not as sure about this as I am about the braking but I do notice it.
#3 Acceleration. Going from the heavy stock 17s and 18s to the lighter 19inch TE37s would probably be a seamless transition but going from 18lb trackers to the TEs made a huge difference in acceleration. My car basically feels like I am carrying 250lbs of extra weight. The throttle does not feel as responsive because of this extra rotational weight. I noticed this as soon as I put the wheels on. Again, the difference here is quite obvious.
So all in all seeing as I drive my car fast and hard on a daily basis, I believe I made a poor choice in wheels. I thought that the TE37s being some of the lightest 19 inchers on the market would produce no noticeable change in performance. I was wrong.
Dont get me wrong, I am not unhappy, but the loss in performance is something I will have to get used to. One of the reasons I got the TEs was so I could save the track model wheels for the track. but I stilll did not want a performance sapping wheel.
I will keep the TEs because they look so good, but if I had it to do over again. I would have gotten some fat 18x8.5 18x9.5. Do Luck Double six wheels weighing in at 14 lbs for these sizes come to mind. Or maybe SSR proffessor SP1s in 18 would have done, although not lighter than the Rays track wheel.
So there you have it. I have heard many talk about the performance issues of 18s vs 19s, but nothing very definitive. If I had read something like this I might be riding on 18s now.
My advice is if you are upgrading from track wheels, dont go 19 unless all you are after is bling, because you will feel a performance loss. If you are going from the stock 17s or 18s try to get a light weight 19. That way maybe you wont notice a performance loss. I cant say for sure because I have not experienced a before and after but its a pretty educated guess.
I hope this post helps some of you to make a more informed decision. Peace!
I'm just giving you a heads up, it may be worth nothing, or it may be something.
02-26-2004 | 11:03 AM
#29
Disagree!
Originally posted by all_bark
you never mentioned the weight of the rubber! Those could be very heavy tires and by switching to toyo's you may be able to drop quite a bit of weight and get back close to the weight of the track rims.
just something to consider....
you never mentioned the weight of the rubber! Those could be very heavy tires and by switching to toyo's you may be able to drop quite a bit of weight and get back close to the weight of the track rims.
just something to consider....
Goodyear F1 GS-D3 in 245/40-18F, 275/40-18R = 25.7F, 28.9R lbs each
Toyo Proxes T1-S in 245/40-18F, 275/40-18R = 24F, 28R lbs each.
Very little difference in weight between F1 and T1S I'd think!
02-26-2004 | 12:57 PM
#31
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From: Long Island
I have forged 19's and Toyo's. If there is a difference in acceleration it is not noticeable. I'm not saying there isn't a difference. I'm just saying you can't tell from everyday use. Unless you are horsepower obsessed, I wouldn't be scared off from getting a good quality lightweight 19'. I'm gonna drop 20lbs. from my fat *** to lower my ET's.
02-26-2004 | 02:25 PM
#32
Joined: Jun 2002
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Re: Re: 19 Inchers and Performance Issues. My Perspective
Originally posted by Boomer
Jules, you may want to find a copy of the latest Sports Car Illustrated. They tested a Mitsu EVO?, 271HP, Corvette Z06 and a Porsche 911 GT3. They said the Goodyear F1 tires were a letdown on the track, so it may not be just your wheels. It came as a big surprise to me, the Goodyears had received a lot of positive press. The testers were using a track, but your driving venue is close to track speeds, I guess from your description.
I'm just giving you a heads up, it may be worth nothing, or it may be something.
Jules, you may want to find a copy of the latest Sports Car Illustrated. They tested a Mitsu EVO?, 271HP, Corvette Z06 and a Porsche 911 GT3. They said the Goodyear F1 tires were a letdown on the track, so it may not be just your wheels. It came as a big surprise to me, the Goodyears had received a lot of positive press. The testers were using a track, but your driving venue is close to track speeds, I guess from your description.
I'm just giving you a heads up, it may be worth nothing, or it may be something.
02-26-2004 | 08:48 PM
#35
The static mass of a rim+tire versus the rotational mass of a rim+tire is HUGE.
I was about to type out all the formulas for rotational inertia (i majored in math) but I found this spreadsheet instead. Saves me a whole lot of typing
It makes a lot of assumptions, but I think it's accurate enough for our purposes. In particular, it assumes that you've got the same weight for all four wheels; but for argument sake, you can get a fairly accurate estimate by considering just the rear wheels.
http://www.the-welters.com/racing/rotational.xls
Just punch in the weight of the two rims+tires you want to compare and it will handle the rest.
I was about to type out all the formulas for rotational inertia (i majored in math) but I found this spreadsheet instead. Saves me a whole lot of typing
It makes a lot of assumptions, but I think it's accurate enough for our purposes. In particular, it assumes that you've got the same weight for all four wheels; but for argument sake, you can get a fairly accurate estimate by considering just the rear wheels.
http://www.the-welters.com/racing/rotational.xls
Just punch in the weight of the two rims+tires you want to compare and it will handle the rest.
02-27-2004 | 07:31 AM
#37
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From: Sesame Street
Originally posted by Thanos
Anyone have any problems with the Traction Control (SLIP Warning light) kicking in with the 19's? On sweeping turns I have to shut the TCS system off.
Sux.
T
Anyone have any problems with the Traction Control (SLIP Warning light) kicking in with the 19's? On sweeping turns I have to shut the TCS system off.
Sux.
T
Your tire combo is not staggered enough. You need the proper staggerbetween front and rear.
When I had my 18s I changed tires on the rear and it screwed up my VDC until I changed my fronts to the appropriate size.
Do a search for 'stagger' You will get all the info you need.
Bassmaster, cool name for a band! Question though...
What is "presumpsous" ?
02-27-2004 | 08:11 AM
#38
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From: City of Lost Angels
i love my 19"s...i can't really give some accurate input...but it actually feels faster to me(i have a good sense of feel). It could also be that my car just got faster. switched around 6000 miles. the car just feels quicker could be it's fully broken in? I'll just have to hurry up and dyno my car and see how off my feelings are.
02-27-2004 | 10:37 AM
#39
Originally posted by Strife350z
The static mass of a rim+tire versus the rotational mass of a rim+tire is HUGE.
The static mass of a rim+tire versus the rotational mass of a rim+tire is HUGE.
02-28-2004 | 07:09 AM
#40
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From: Savannah, Ga
I went from OEM 6-spoke 18's with stock rubber to 19" TE-37's with Dunlop SP 9000, 245/35 and 27/35, with NO loss of performance. I dropped weight with my new wheels/tires. Thumbs up for for quicker steering response, better traction in the rear, and a MUCH quieter ride with the Dunlops.