zswickliffe

iTrader: (2)

The fronts are flush from the factory. I don't think you can really roll them much anyway. But the rear fenders have a nasty lip that needs to be at least rolled a little bit if you want any decent fitment.

ronn1

iTrader: (1)

You're only another 10MM farther out than my set up in the rear..but maybe that's just enough to rub there? Seems that I have plenty of clearance though. Again, I'm 275/30/19 on 9.5 rims (+25) with Spec R springs. In fact, I was 1/4" lower prior to installing Spec-Rs ( had Prokit Springs on) and I still didn't rub. However, when I installed 15mm (-5 over your set up) spacers with Prokit SPRINGS installed (1.2" drop), I rubbed big time and had to remove the spacers.

thekinn

iTrader: (18)

Not sure of the Ops wheel/tire size, but yes- I have Bilstein b8/Swift spec r setup. and the rubbing is up front - not in the back.

The fenders can be rolled up front - the edge is sort of shaped like a V instead of the lip/L shape in the rear.. my car needs body work anyways - this fender rolling up front will just need to be at the top of the list of to-do's now

yellowspecv

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...3&autoModClar= Mr.zswicklife what's on your opinion on the B12 pro-kit apparently they are re-valve by bilstein to match the 30mm drop from the springs and the rates are very close to the revised springs..... My plan is to run these and V1 ray's track wheels with 235/45/18 and 255/45/18 only 10mm plus in section width

zswickliffe

iTrader: (2)

I think that's a great kit! Just know you're going to have to play with settings until you get something you like. I would run a square tire setup because it has a much better feel but all-in-all you'll be happy with all of that.

yellowspecv

Absolutely I think so too , is a great kit ... Is gonna take me a few months to get everything done and I will post the same review layout as you did ... I'm expecting a few HPDE next year so I will report back , I really believe your post is the only sensible damper/spring post and you know what you are talking about ....It has cross my mind to runs a square set up but I have V1 rays so 18x8 and 18x8.5 .. So running a square will make my sidewall in the back look a tiny stretch in the rear .... Plus it is my daily I do understand a square set up will decrease understeer ... What is your tire setup ? Looks very chunky ... And I would call it perfect !!! Is it bigger overall tire height ? Does it affect your VDC or ABS? ..... I got a base so no VCD "nanny" and a open diff but I'm in the transition to get an 05 track with the rev up engine .. I would have both one daily and the track for track

zswickliffe

iTrader: (2)

You could always find two more rear wheels for your car and run 18x8.5 all the way around. My setup is 18x9.5 all the way around with 275/35 front and 275/40 rear. The height difference between the front and rear keep VDC happy. But with your base you don't have to worry about that. You would be very happy with 255/40 all the way around your car.

I appreciate the kind words!

thekinn

iTrader: (18)

Back to the OP setup - Bilstein B8 shocks and Swift Spec-R springs - I have to say that I agree with the positive notes on street ride quality and appearance.

But, I am not too happy with the performance on track. Mainly on fast turns (or kinks) - the car takes longer to set. Once the weight shifts to one side, it seems to take longer to settle back. This delays more inputs like more throttle or initiating braking.

I am guessing this is due to the progressive spring rate.

It is still 'trackable'.. I am getting by.. but I liked my OEM shock and Cobb spring combo better on the track. Cobb springs are a linear spring. I will likely just try switching back to Cobb springs on Bilstein shocks and give that a try. I don't know of an alternative/comparable linear spring to try. Suggestions?

zswickliffe

iTrader: (2)

My understanding is that spring rate is used to control dive/squat mainly while sway bars are for body roll. Using very high spring rates to control weight transfer from side to side is incorrect.

thekinn

iTrader: (18)

sway bars and settings on them are unchanged (Cobb).. however.. tires and front camber have also changed with the shocks/springs. I went and changed too much at once after my accident..

zswickliffe

iTrader: (2)

Yeah generally speaking the springs should be soft enough to allow full shock stroke but the sways take care of roll in the corners. Weight transfer is a good thing, despite what people seem to believe these days.

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

One question about your review: are the Bilsteins adjustable for either bounce or rebound?

zswickliffe

iTrader: (2)

If you read the review - they are not adjustable. This was listed as a positive. 99.99% of the people buying dampers have no clue that you must match your spring rate to the setting of the damper. How many people do you know with a shock dyno and multiple springs to swap out?

thekinn

iTrader: (18)

Worth mentioning that I do like how this combo feels on the rest of the track. The typical 90 degree corners, double-apex, etc.. Have you been to Gingerman or Waterford Hills yet?

turn 4 at Gingerman - after I apex there and want to accelerate out - the car just doesn't feel settled after the apex.. it just seems to hang out there and feels like it will let loose if I give it more throttle... by the time it feels settled, I have to brake for turn 5. Could be my line - I don't have too many track days out there.. but I can't be THAT far off to induce this unsettled feel.. in my opinion.

the kink at Waterford (after hilltop-turn 4, before turn 5) - same thing here. I have a lot of track time out at Waterford - so I am less likely to blame my line here (but still possible - I'm no pro).

and maybe my 'feel' wouldn't translate into a spin if I gave it gas - but not something I want to test going 70+ (especially at Waterford).

We can take this offline if you want. Not sure how far off-topic I am getting here. I just wanted to provide my feedback on this setup.

zswickliffe

iTrader: (2)

I see what you're saying - that feeling can be caused by just about anything. Too much camber or not enough camber can cause you to have less tire on the ground and feel less stable in a straight line or in a turn, respectively. Changing tires could mean softer or stiffer sidewalls, giving a completely different feel and cause it to feel unsettled. Lastly, the shock/spring combination could potentially be over or under damped causing the suspension to not travel or the car to undulate.

Another sensation that I've noticed is that we often do things to make our cars faster, then complain that it doesn't feel as "settled" or comfortable but forget the fact that we're going 5 or 10 mph faster through the same corner. You increase the maximum grip and the breaking point is more severe.

As for you're exact setup, the fact that you noticed this specifically after changing shocks/springs tells me that you may have gotten by with a setup prior that may not be applicable now due to differing spring rates.

Cobb: 436/535
Swift: 420/460

So the swift springs are definitely softer, however, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Try softening up your rear sway one link - this will give you a bit more traction in the rear and help it settle. Good rule of thumb is as follows (courtesy of tire rack):

clubhopper

iTrader: (6)

I have this exact same setup and i'm quite satisfied with its performance on the track. the only thing I noticed is that I was running a narrower tire on the front than the rear so I was understeering like crazy in some corners. 245 in front vs 275 rear. I know with a 275 or even a 255 up front, it would have balanced out some more.

hotchkis sways settings: medium soft front, medium rear
camber -1.7 all around

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

I did read your review and there was nothing to indicate the Bilsteins were non-adjustable for both bounce and rebound. You do NOT need a shock dyno and multiple springs to match springs/dampers in offering low or high speed adjustment settings. You may be thinking of how a shock is valved to handle particular spring loads, but once this is done, the Bilstein (or Koni, or Moton or...) damper may offer a range of adjustability that will aid in tuning the car's handling.

I agree that most people don't have a clue how to adjust their shocks, but even the single adjustable Koni sport shock offers a degree of rebound adjustment that can help with understeer, riding bumps or curbing (at the racetrack) and other handling deficits. Using them takes time, learning and experience, but they do offer an advantage to certain customers. That the Bilstein is a fully sealed unit with NO adjustability is a disadvantage in my book.

zswickliffe

iTrader: (2)

My apologies, I thought I had made that clear.

As for adjustability, I agree it may be a negative for certain people if left out. Think of valving as a coarse adjustment and the damping **** a fine adjustment. You generally valve for a spring rate and fine tune for any variance based on the situation. However, there is only ONE damping setting for each specific spring rate. Correctly setting this is known as the system being critically damped. Cheaper coilovers or non-specifically valved shocks are given the adjustment to make up for the discrepancies and allow for a less precise valving in the shock. Bilstein made it clear to me that these shocks were "very well valved" for my selected spring rate.

They probably aren't perfect and could use a little adjusting I'm sure but as my car sits right now, it's less under/over damped than any <$2k coilover system I've ever had the displeasure of driving. It's a perfect set it and forget it system for the street and occasional track day. That was the point of this setup, not for the user that will constantly mess with every setting based on the track temp that day. If you don't know the exact damping curve of your shock for each individual setting on the adjustable ***** then you're quite possibly making the system farther from critically damped with each setting.

Buying a set of MOTON coilovers is definitely an option. They're better than this setup will ever be. They're also at least 5 times the cost. Koni shocks are twin tube, an old and outdated design. Each setup has its positives and negatives, you just have to pick what is right for you.

CptWiggles

Might anyone have some pictures of the rear spring installed on this setup?

clubhopper

iTrader: (6)

Here you go. The look will change depending on tire choice.

245/40-18 front
275/40-18 rear