Bilstein Shocks + Swift Spec-R Springs Review
#61
Interesting..would think it would rub in front without rolling...especially lowered 1.2" at +15 with 275s. I have the Sprint SpecRs in the rear with 275/30 /19 on 9.5, but I'm +25 there. Plenty of room! I'm still surprised you rub though, since you're only lowered 1" in the rear.
#62
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You're only another 10MM farther out than my set up in the rear..but maybe that's just enough to rub there? Seems that I have plenty of clearance though. Again, I'm 275/30/19 on 9.5 rims (+25) with Spec R springs. In fact, I was 1/4" lower prior to installing Spec-Rs ( had Prokit Springs on) and I still didn't rub. However, when I installed 15mm (-5 over your set up) spacers with Prokit SPRINGS installed (1.2" drop), I rubbed big time and had to remove the spacers.
Last edited by ronn1; 06-18-2014 at 09:49 PM.
#63
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The fenders can be rolled up front - the edge is sort of shaped like a V instead of the lip/L shape in the rear.. my car needs body work anyways - this fender rolling up front will just need to be at the top of the list of to-do's now
#64
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http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...3&autoModClar= Mr.zswicklife what's on your opinion on the B12 pro-kit apparently they are re-valve by bilstein to match the 30mm drop from the springs and the rates are very close to the revised springs..... My plan is to run these and V1 ray's track wheels with 235/45/18 and 255/45/18 only 10mm plus in section width
#65
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...3&autoModClar= Mr.zswicklife what's on your opinion on the B12 pro-kit apparently they are re-valve by bilstein to match the 30mm drop from the springs and the rates are very close to the revised springs..... My plan is to run these and V1 ray's track wheels with 235/45/18 and 255/45/18 only 10mm plus in section width
#66
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Absolutely I think so too , is a great kit ... Is gonna take me a few months to get everything done and I will post the same review layout as you did ... I'm expecting a few HPDE next year so I will report back , I really believe your post is the only sensible damper/spring post and you know what you are talking about ....It has cross my mind to runs a square set up but I have V1 rays so 18x8 and 18x8.5 .. So running a square will make my sidewall in the back look a tiny stretch in the rear .... Plus it is my daily I do understand a square set up will decrease understeer ... What is your tire setup ? Looks very chunky ... And I would call it perfect !!! Is it bigger overall tire height ? Does it affect your VDC or ABS? ..... I got a base so no VCD "nanny" and a open diff but I'm in the transition to get an 05 track with the rev up engine .. I would have both one daily and the track for track
#67
Absolutely I think so too , is a great kit ... Is gonna take me a few months to get everything done and I will post the same review layout as you did ... I'm expecting a few HPDE next year so I will report back , I really believe your post is the only sensible damper/spring post and you know what you are talking about ....It has cross my mind to runs a square set up but I have V1 rays so 18x8 and 18x8.5 .. So running a square will make my sidewall in the back look a tiny stretch in the rear .... Plus it is my daily I do understand a square set up will decrease understeer ... What is your tire setup ? Looks very chunky ... And I would call it perfect !!! Is it bigger overall tire height ? Does it affect your VDC or ABS? ..... I got a base so no VCD "nanny" and a open diff but I'm in the transition to get an 05 track with the rev up engine .. I would have both one daily and the track for track
I appreciate the kind words!
#68
New Member
iTrader: (18)
Back to the OP setup - Bilstein B8 shocks and Swift Spec-R springs - I have to say that I agree with the positive notes on street ride quality and appearance.
But, I am not too happy with the performance on track. Mainly on fast turns (or kinks) - the car takes longer to set. Once the weight shifts to one side, it seems to take longer to settle back. This delays more inputs like more throttle or initiating braking.
I am guessing this is due to the progressive spring rate.
It is still 'trackable'.. I am getting by.. but I liked my OEM shock and Cobb spring combo better on the track. Cobb springs are a linear spring. I will likely just try switching back to Cobb springs on Bilstein shocks and give that a try. I don't know of an alternative/comparable linear spring to try. Suggestions?
But, I am not too happy with the performance on track. Mainly on fast turns (or kinks) - the car takes longer to set. Once the weight shifts to one side, it seems to take longer to settle back. This delays more inputs like more throttle or initiating braking.
I am guessing this is due to the progressive spring rate.
It is still 'trackable'.. I am getting by.. but I liked my OEM shock and Cobb spring combo better on the track. Cobb springs are a linear spring. I will likely just try switching back to Cobb springs on Bilstein shocks and give that a try. I don't know of an alternative/comparable linear spring to try. Suggestions?
#69
Back to the OP setup - Bilstein B8 shocks and Swift Spec-R springs - I have to say that I agree with the positive notes on street ride quality and appearance.
But, I am not too happy with the performance on track. Mainly on fast turns (or kinks) - the car takes longer to set. Once the weight shifts to one side, it seems to take longer to settle back. This delays more inputs like more throttle or initiating braking.
I am guessing this is due to the progressive spring rate.
It is still 'trackable'.. I am getting by.. but I liked my OEM shock and Cobb spring combo better on the track. Cobb springs are a linear spring. I will likely just try switching back to Cobb springs on Bilstein shocks and give that a try. I don't know of an alternative/comparable linear spring to try. Suggestions?
But, I am not too happy with the performance on track. Mainly on fast turns (or kinks) - the car takes longer to set. Once the weight shifts to one side, it seems to take longer to settle back. This delays more inputs like more throttle or initiating braking.
I am guessing this is due to the progressive spring rate.
It is still 'trackable'.. I am getting by.. but I liked my OEM shock and Cobb spring combo better on the track. Cobb springs are a linear spring. I will likely just try switching back to Cobb springs on Bilstein shocks and give that a try. I don't know of an alternative/comparable linear spring to try. Suggestions?
#73
If you read the review - they are not adjustable. This was listed as a positive. 99.99% of the people buying dampers have no clue that you must match your spring rate to the setting of the damper. How many people do you know with a shock dyno and multiple springs to swap out?
#74
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Worth mentioning that I do like how this combo feels on the rest of the track. The typical 90 degree corners, double-apex, etc.. Have you been to Gingerman or Waterford Hills yet?
turn 4 at Gingerman - after I apex there and want to accelerate out - the car just doesn't feel settled after the apex.. it just seems to hang out there and feels like it will let loose if I give it more throttle... by the time it feels settled, I have to brake for turn 5. Could be my line - I don't have too many track days out there.. but I can't be THAT far off to induce this unsettled feel.. in my opinion.
the kink at Waterford (after hilltop-turn 4, before turn 5) - same thing here. I have a lot of track time out at Waterford - so I am less likely to blame my line here (but still possible - I'm no pro).
and maybe my 'feel' wouldn't translate into a spin if I gave it gas - but not something I want to test going 70+ (especially at Waterford).
We can take this offline if you want. Not sure how far off-topic I am getting here. I just wanted to provide my feedback on this setup.
turn 4 at Gingerman - after I apex there and want to accelerate out - the car just doesn't feel settled after the apex.. it just seems to hang out there and feels like it will let loose if I give it more throttle... by the time it feels settled, I have to brake for turn 5. Could be my line - I don't have too many track days out there.. but I can't be THAT far off to induce this unsettled feel.. in my opinion.
the kink at Waterford (after hilltop-turn 4, before turn 5) - same thing here. I have a lot of track time out at Waterford - so I am less likely to blame my line here (but still possible - I'm no pro).
and maybe my 'feel' wouldn't translate into a spin if I gave it gas - but not something I want to test going 70+ (especially at Waterford).
We can take this offline if you want. Not sure how far off-topic I am getting here. I just wanted to provide my feedback on this setup.
Last edited by thekinn; 08-12-2014 at 09:21 AM. Reason: typos, further comments
#75
Worth mentioning that I do like how this combo feels on the rest of the track. The typical 90 degree corners, double-apex, etc.. Have you been to Gingerman or Waterford Hills yet?
turn 4 at Gingerman - after I apex there and want to accelerate out - the car just doesn't feel settled after the apex.. it just seems to hang out there and feels like it will let loose if I give it more throttle... by the time it feels settled, I have to brake for turn 5. Could be my line - I don't have too many track days out there.. but I can't be THAT far off to induce this unsettled feel.. in my opinion.
the kink at Waterford (after hilltop-turn 4, before turn 5) - same thing here. I have a lot of track time out at Waterford - so I am less likely to blame my line here (but still possible - I'm no pro).
and maybe my 'feel' wouldn't translate into a spin if I gave it gas - but not something I want to test going 70+ (especially at Waterford).
We can take this offline if you want. Not sure how far off-topic I am getting here. I just wanted to provide my feedback on this setup.
turn 4 at Gingerman - after I apex there and want to accelerate out - the car just doesn't feel settled after the apex.. it just seems to hang out there and feels like it will let loose if I give it more throttle... by the time it feels settled, I have to brake for turn 5. Could be my line - I don't have too many track days out there.. but I can't be THAT far off to induce this unsettled feel.. in my opinion.
the kink at Waterford (after hilltop-turn 4, before turn 5) - same thing here. I have a lot of track time out at Waterford - so I am less likely to blame my line here (but still possible - I'm no pro).
and maybe my 'feel' wouldn't translate into a spin if I gave it gas - but not something I want to test going 70+ (especially at Waterford).
We can take this offline if you want. Not sure how far off-topic I am getting here. I just wanted to provide my feedback on this setup.
Another sensation that I've noticed is that we often do things to make our cars faster, then complain that it doesn't feel as "settled" or comfortable but forget the fact that we're going 5 or 10 mph faster through the same corner. You increase the maximum grip and the breaking point is more severe.
As for you're exact setup, the fact that you noticed this specifically after changing shocks/springs tells me that you may have gotten by with a setup prior that may not be applicable now due to differing spring rates.
Cobb: 436/535
Swift: 420/460
So the swift springs are definitely softer, however, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Try softening up your rear sway one link - this will give you a bit more traction in the rear and help it settle. Good rule of thumb is as follows (courtesy of tire rack):
#76
New Member
iTrader: (6)
I have this exact same setup and i'm quite satisfied with its performance on the track. the only thing I noticed is that I was running a narrower tire on the front than the rear so I was understeering like crazy in some corners. 245 in front vs 275 rear. I know with a 275 or even a 255 up front, it would have balanced out some more.
hotchkis sways settings: medium soft front, medium rear
camber -1.7 all around
hotchkis sways settings: medium soft front, medium rear
camber -1.7 all around
#77
General & DIY Moderator
MY350Z.COM
MY350Z.COM
iTrader: (64)
If you read the review - they are not adjustable. This was listed as a positive. 99.99% of the people buying dampers have no clue that you must match your spring rate to the setting of the damper. How many people do you know with a shock dyno and multiple springs to swap out?
I agree that most people don't have a clue how to adjust their shocks, but even the single adjustable Koni sport shock offers a degree of rebound adjustment that can help with understeer, riding bumps or curbing (at the racetrack) and other handling deficits. Using them takes time, learning and experience, but they do offer an advantage to certain customers. That the Bilstein is a fully sealed unit with NO adjustability is a disadvantage in my book.
#78
I did read your review and there was nothing to indicate the Bilsteins were non-adjustable for both bounce and rebound. You do NOT need a shock dyno and multiple springs to match springs/dampers in offering low or high speed adjustment settings. You may be thinking of how a shock is valved to handle particular spring loads, but once this is done, the Bilstein (or Koni, or Moton or...) damper may offer a range of adjustability that will aid in tuning the car's handling.
I agree that most people don't have a clue how to adjust their shocks, but even the single adjustable Koni sport shock offers a degree of rebound adjustment that can help with understeer, riding bumps or curbing (at the racetrack) and other handling deficits. Using them takes time, learning and experience, but they do offer an advantage to certain customers. That the Bilstein is a fully sealed unit with NO adjustability is a disadvantage in my book.
I agree that most people don't have a clue how to adjust their shocks, but even the single adjustable Koni sport shock offers a degree of rebound adjustment that can help with understeer, riding bumps or curbing (at the racetrack) and other handling deficits. Using them takes time, learning and experience, but they do offer an advantage to certain customers. That the Bilstein is a fully sealed unit with NO adjustability is a disadvantage in my book.
As for adjustability, I agree it may be a negative for certain people if left out. Think of valving as a coarse adjustment and the damping **** a fine adjustment. You generally valve for a spring rate and fine tune for any variance based on the situation. However, there is only ONE damping setting for each specific spring rate. Correctly setting this is known as the system being critically damped. Cheaper coilovers or non-specifically valved shocks are given the adjustment to make up for the discrepancies and allow for a less precise valving in the shock. Bilstein made it clear to me that these shocks were "very well valved" for my selected spring rate.
They probably aren't perfect and could use a little adjusting I'm sure but as my car sits right now, it's less under/over damped than any <$2k coilover system I've ever had the displeasure of driving. It's a perfect set it and forget it system for the street and occasional track day. That was the point of this setup, not for the user that will constantly mess with every setting based on the track temp that day. If you don't know the exact damping curve of your shock for each individual setting on the adjustable ***** then you're quite possibly making the system farther from critically damped with each setting.
Buying a set of MOTON coilovers is definitely an option. They're better than this setup will ever be. They're also at least 5 times the cost. Koni shocks are twin tube, an old and outdated design. Each setup has its positives and negatives, you just have to pick what is right for you.