Gonna wrap it gloss black
05-21-2014, 11:46 AM
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Gonna wrap it gloss black
This project has been on the board for a while. Rather average looking 05MT....and the rather sad looking replacement door I got (not bad for 3 bills) after the Mrs ripped the driver's side door off while backing her car off the driveway:
Interestingly, each time the story about that door is told, the new version blames me more and more. Regardless, it's an excellent reason to expedite an exterior makeover, since everyone in town probably thinks I'm the idiot who drifted his car into a tree on a grocery store parking lot.
Gloss black wrap doesn't seem to have been done too often on Z's. The decision is simple enough for me: If I felt like paying the $4k to get it painted, it would be gloss black. If I had bought one new.....it would've been black. Simple enough. Nonetheless, my time spent reading up on it suggested some things to consider:
1) Gloss installs.....seems the material can change sheen when not done right, which stands out badly in gloss.
2) Lifespan of the installation, the warranty of the 3m 1080 not withstanding.
3) Coverage of door jambs, sills, etc.....after all, I'm trying to approximate a paint job at half the cost.
4) Do-it-yourself, or not.
My circumstances differ somewhat from most of the other installs I've read about and seen, in that, my present paint job sucks. The PO was struck on the driver's side, and the body shop did a crap job on repainting that whole side of the car. So step one is lots of prep - pretty much the same prep as if I were going to paint it: Five or six dents on the body, two big dings on the rear bumper, split front lip, peeling mirrors.....all courtesy of the PO, my old man, who gave it to me because the clutch killed his knees. The old guy beat the crap out of the car with his cane getting in and out of it, but left it mechanically flawless - seriously, runs like new at 90k. He really likes that Cadillac he picked up.....
So I found a shop here in town that seems to be very credentialed. These guys are a commercial advertising outfit. I'll give a full review and account of the experience with them. I'm looking at less than $2k for the full wrap, with a five year warranty on the installation. Hearing that is what made me abandon the idea of doing it myself. Most places seem to offer one year on a couple thousand dollars worth of work. I'm 95% certain of having them do it, pending a follow up.
That answers concerns 1, 2, and 4, getting a gloss black installed right, and it not peeling up at the edges soon thereafter. The guy I talked to agreed with my plan for concern 3, the door jambs and sills. Again, my situation is a bit different in the sense that I'm not trying to save a nice paint job. In fact, if I were having it painted, I'd save some money by painting the jambs and sills myself.....and that's what I'll do. It's made all-the-more easy by the color choice. A funky tangerine or lemon color would require a specially mixed can to do it. So......I'm gonna pop off the doors and rear hatch, paint the insides, reassemble, and after wrapping it should look pretty good, especially with a pro doing nice, clean edges in the jambs. Additionally, they are free to use plenty of the adhesion-promoting 94 Primer I've read about, because the paint job isn't too much of an issue.
Who knows, in ten years maybe someone will re-wrap it, paint it, or drive it through the fancy new selecta-color carwash. Regardless, they'll have the benefit of the bodywork I've done. Dents have been pulled, beaten out, smoothed, primed, painted, and cleared. Bumper has been heated, tweaked, filled, etc. Busted front lip fiberglassed and repainted.
Continuing the theme of "if I were gonna have it painted," everything is coming off before I take it to them: bumpers, headlights, tail lights, mirrors (glass removed, inside painted), emblems, door handles, antenna, A-pillars, rocker panels, splash guards (staying off), and anything else you guys remind me of. I think it's the best way to give this a proper shot.
Interestingly, each time the story about that door is told, the new version blames me more and more. Regardless, it's an excellent reason to expedite an exterior makeover, since everyone in town probably thinks I'm the idiot who drifted his car into a tree on a grocery store parking lot.
Gloss black wrap doesn't seem to have been done too often on Z's. The decision is simple enough for me: If I felt like paying the $4k to get it painted, it would be gloss black. If I had bought one new.....it would've been black. Simple enough. Nonetheless, my time spent reading up on it suggested some things to consider:
1) Gloss installs.....seems the material can change sheen when not done right, which stands out badly in gloss.
2) Lifespan of the installation, the warranty of the 3m 1080 not withstanding.
3) Coverage of door jambs, sills, etc.....after all, I'm trying to approximate a paint job at half the cost.
4) Do-it-yourself, or not.
My circumstances differ somewhat from most of the other installs I've read about and seen, in that, my present paint job sucks. The PO was struck on the driver's side, and the body shop did a crap job on repainting that whole side of the car. So step one is lots of prep - pretty much the same prep as if I were going to paint it: Five or six dents on the body, two big dings on the rear bumper, split front lip, peeling mirrors.....all courtesy of the PO, my old man, who gave it to me because the clutch killed his knees. The old guy beat the crap out of the car with his cane getting in and out of it, but left it mechanically flawless - seriously, runs like new at 90k. He really likes that Cadillac he picked up.....
So I found a shop here in town that seems to be very credentialed. These guys are a commercial advertising outfit. I'll give a full review and account of the experience with them. I'm looking at less than $2k for the full wrap, with a five year warranty on the installation. Hearing that is what made me abandon the idea of doing it myself. Most places seem to offer one year on a couple thousand dollars worth of work. I'm 95% certain of having them do it, pending a follow up.
That answers concerns 1, 2, and 4, getting a gloss black installed right, and it not peeling up at the edges soon thereafter. The guy I talked to agreed with my plan for concern 3, the door jambs and sills. Again, my situation is a bit different in the sense that I'm not trying to save a nice paint job. In fact, if I were having it painted, I'd save some money by painting the jambs and sills myself.....and that's what I'll do. It's made all-the-more easy by the color choice. A funky tangerine or lemon color would require a specially mixed can to do it. So......I'm gonna pop off the doors and rear hatch, paint the insides, reassemble, and after wrapping it should look pretty good, especially with a pro doing nice, clean edges in the jambs. Additionally, they are free to use plenty of the adhesion-promoting 94 Primer I've read about, because the paint job isn't too much of an issue.
Who knows, in ten years maybe someone will re-wrap it, paint it, or drive it through the fancy new selecta-color carwash. Regardless, they'll have the benefit of the bodywork I've done. Dents have been pulled, beaten out, smoothed, primed, painted, and cleared. Bumper has been heated, tweaked, filled, etc. Busted front lip fiberglassed and repainted.
Continuing the theme of "if I were gonna have it painted," everything is coming off before I take it to them: bumpers, headlights, tail lights, mirrors (glass removed, inside painted), emblems, door handles, antenna, A-pillars, rocker panels, splash guards (staying off), and anything else you guys remind me of. I think it's the best way to give this a proper shot.
Last edited by jtbinvalrico; 06-28-2014 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Had to replace lost pictures.
05-21-2014, 12:23 PM
#2
Interesting to say the least.
I own a gloss black Z and to be honest, if I had to do it over again I would have gotten a different color. Black is super hard to keep clean and imperfections show way more on a black car than any other. Also, you can't add black accents to your car like you can other colors because it's already black. If I were to wrap my Z I'd wrap it in a cool color or something that isn't black lol Also, one thing to think about is that any imperfections will show through the wrap. It obviously won't look as bad but it will show through because it's razor thin. Good luck nonetheless but I would either have it painted or wrap it in a cool color.
I own a gloss black Z and to be honest, if I had to do it over again I would have gotten a different color. Black is super hard to keep clean and imperfections show way more on a black car than any other. Also, you can't add black accents to your car like you can other colors because it's already black. If I were to wrap my Z I'd wrap it in a cool color or something that isn't black lol Also, one thing to think about is that any imperfections will show through the wrap. It obviously won't look as bad but it will show through because it's razor thin. Good luck nonetheless but I would either have it painted or wrap it in a cool color.
Last edited by ksuberk54; 05-21-2014 at 12:29 PM.
05-21-2014, 04:05 PM
#4
Bad paint or a weak substrate will peel and flake during the wrap process. Wrapped a z with a crap paint job and the paint would flake each time I had to reposition the vinyl. If that's spray can primer it will peel or not adhere properly during the wrap. What happens is it leaves weak spots and lift points on the panel, turns into bubbles.
05-21-2014, 05:31 PM
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Only been to Miami in my truck....
Yes, unfortunately the PO let the exterior go, along the way it got dinged up, backed into a few things, then the crap repair a body shop did on the whole driver's side - all before I got it.
Good point though on the possibility of peeling paint ruining a wrap. I'm going to have to run that by the installer, not only the spot repairs I'm doing, but the integrity of the entire driver's side.
That's why I said 95% certain, cause you never know.
This is a big 3m certified shop. Either they'll say they can handle it, or they'll send me away for a repaint, in which case I will have already fixed all those dents and dings. Either way, gotta move forward.
The insight of this forum is why I'm here.
Yes, unfortunately the PO let the exterior go, along the way it got dinged up, backed into a few things, then the crap repair a body shop did on the whole driver's side - all before I got it.
Good point though on the possibility of peeling paint ruining a wrap. I'm going to have to run that by the installer, not only the spot repairs I'm doing, but the integrity of the entire driver's side.
That's why I said 95% certain, cause you never know.This is a big 3m certified shop. Either they'll say they can handle it, or they'll send me away for a repaint, in which case I will have already fixed all those dents and dings. Either way, gotta move forward.
The insight of this forum is why I'm here.
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05-22-2014, 03:28 AM
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And here comes SR71, tempting me with that mirror shine, Old Glory reflected, lush green grass......
I wish "the best" was a possibility here. $2k is what I've got to work with....to make the car reasonably presentable. The real question is what I can get done with that amount; and it's therefore a matter of which will look the best: the $2k wrap or a $2k paint job. Comparing either of those two options to a $4k paint job isn't realistic......but then again, if I spend enough time here with you guys, I'll talk myself into a $5k paint job, built motor, turbos, etc.
I'm going to talk to the wrap guys this morning. It's simple. Either they can or can't. Another deal breaker is if they can't do the guarantee on the installation. We'll see.
For reference, here's a wrap that inspired this. It's a Supra done in gloss black in 2011, he reports that it still looks good in 2014:
I wish "the best" was a possibility here. $2k is what I've got to work with....to make the car reasonably presentable. The real question is what I can get done with that amount; and it's therefore a matter of which will look the best: the $2k wrap or a $2k paint job. Comparing either of those two options to a $4k paint job isn't realistic......but then again, if I spend enough time here with you guys, I'll talk myself into a $5k paint job, built motor, turbos, etc.
I'm going to talk to the wrap guys this morning. It's simple. Either they can or can't. Another deal breaker is if they can't do the guarantee on the installation. We'll see.
For reference, here's a wrap that inspired this. It's a Supra done in gloss black in 2011, he reports that it still looks good in 2014:
05-22-2014, 07:00 AM
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Just got back from the shop in east Tampa. This project is a go.
Talked to the manager and head installer, toured the shop. Big facility with a lot going on. We covered all the details, namely, the issue of new paint. My dents are all out, and they approved of my prep so far. I told them I'm not using anything special, just automotive primer, paint, and clear (Duplicolor). We discussed the plan to paint the door jambs and sills, which they liked. They also agreed that the more disassembly the better.
They'll get the car 30 days after the last coat of anything goes on it. That's how long they feel is safe to work with it. Beyond that, they guarantee the installation as they otherwise would.
That's where we're at. I'm shooting for a time frame of 60 days for finish, the first 30 of which should allow me to complete my prep between work and other obligations. I'm going to detail some of the dent and ding repair for those who don't know how, because, in the context of getting an old dinged up car wrapped, there's no reason to pay for a body shop to pull them and prep the car. I'll also cover removing the doors and hatch to paint the jambs and sills. We'll be disassembling the mirrors completely to paint the insides of those as well. Rocker panel and A-pillar removal are already covered on the forum, so I'll leave that part out.
The quality of the work and how well it holds up will be detailed for the curious. Fails and work-arounds will be noted as well.
Talked to the manager and head installer, toured the shop. Big facility with a lot going on. We covered all the details, namely, the issue of new paint. My dents are all out, and they approved of my prep so far. I told them I'm not using anything special, just automotive primer, paint, and clear (Duplicolor). We discussed the plan to paint the door jambs and sills, which they liked. They also agreed that the more disassembly the better.
They'll get the car 30 days after the last coat of anything goes on it. That's how long they feel is safe to work with it. Beyond that, they guarantee the installation as they otherwise would.
That's where we're at. I'm shooting for a time frame of 60 days for finish, the first 30 of which should allow me to complete my prep between work and other obligations. I'm going to detail some of the dent and ding repair for those who don't know how, because, in the context of getting an old dinged up car wrapped, there's no reason to pay for a body shop to pull them and prep the car. I'll also cover removing the doors and hatch to paint the jambs and sills. We'll be disassembling the mirrors completely to paint the insides of those as well. Rocker panel and A-pillar removal are already covered on the forum, so I'll leave that part out.
The quality of the work and how well it holds up will be detailed for the curious. Fails and work-arounds will be noted as well.
05-22-2014, 11:04 AM
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You're killing me, brother......
Here I am, all inspired by cars like yours and everything.....You got some color plans down the road? At least you wouldn't have to do all this prep and bodywork.
I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered other colors, even the matte, but that's just not my scene. BTW, I'll have it all summer, it's just gonna look like crap all summer
The guys at the shop mentioned a Z they did, I forget if it went from orange to red, or vice versa. ksuberk54, orange would look slick with those black wheels!
Here I am, all inspired by cars like yours and everything.....You got some color plans down the road? At least you wouldn't have to do all this prep and bodywork.I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered other colors, even the matte, but that's just not my scene. BTW, I'll have it all summer, it's just gonna look like crap all summer
The guys at the shop mentioned a Z they did, I forget if it went from orange to red, or vice versa. ksuberk54, orange would look slick with those black wheels!
05-22-2014, 02:22 PM
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You're killing me, brother...... Here I am, all inspired by cars like yours and everything.....You got some color plans down the road? At least you wouldn't have to do all this prep and bodywork.
I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered other colors, even the matte, but that's just not my scene. BTW, I'll have it all summer, it's just gonna look like crap all summer
The guys at the shop mentioned a Z they did, I forget if it went from orange to red, or vice versa. ksuberk54, orange would look slick with those black wheels!
Here I am, all inspired by cars like yours and everything.....You got some color plans down the road? At least you wouldn't have to do all this prep and bodywork.I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered other colors, even the matte, but that's just not my scene. BTW, I'll have it all summer, it's just gonna look like crap all summer
The guys at the shop mentioned a Z they did, I forget if it went from orange to red, or vice versa. ksuberk54, orange would look slick with those black wheels!
05-26-2014, 04:33 PM
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Continuing the theme of "if I were gonna have it painted," everything is coming off before I take it to them: bumpers, headlights, tail lights, mirrors (glass removed, inside painted), emblems, door handles, antenna, A-pillars, rocker panels, splash guards (staying off), and anything else you guys remind me of. I think it's the best way to give this a proper shot.
I, like you, dig black. I tried like hell to find a 350 in black when I started looking last spring, and only managed to find a blue one with the all the other things I wanted... Here's my old pair:
By the way, if you are not a professional writer, you should consider it. Your writing is the most literate that I have read in a public forum in probably 10 years...
05-27-2014, 03:50 AM
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Thanks for the compliment and the insight. You're asking a fair question: If you're doing all that prep, can't you have it painted for the same $2k? I think the answer is yes, but the catch is how's it gonna look in three years.
I'd definitely prefer a paint job. My concern is how that $2k paint job is going to look in three years. Specifically, I see cars driving around here with paint jobs that are faded and mottled messes. It seems to me that a significant component of that failure is the quality of the paint that was used. I'm not a paint guy. Even if I was in the body shop while the work was being done, I wouldn't know what I was looking at, nor would I understand the finer points of the process.
I suppose my protection against a paint job that looks great for a few months, then turns to crap, would be a warranty. Of course that warranty would have to be at a place that I knew would be there in a few years.
I've got to continue my prep regardless, and I've got to wait 30 days after my last painting to wrap. In that time I'm going to take your suggestion and get a few estimates on what it would cost to paint a stripped and prepped car, with all the prep I'm willing to do for the wrap. My focus will be on the warranty, and whether that's a realistic expectation within this budget.
I'd definitely prefer a paint job. My concern is how that $2k paint job is going to look in three years. Specifically, I see cars driving around here with paint jobs that are faded and mottled messes. It seems to me that a significant component of that failure is the quality of the paint that was used. I'm not a paint guy. Even if I was in the body shop while the work was being done, I wouldn't know what I was looking at, nor would I understand the finer points of the process.
I suppose my protection against a paint job that looks great for a few months, then turns to crap, would be a warranty. Of course that warranty would have to be at a place that I knew would be there in a few years.
I've got to continue my prep regardless, and I've got to wait 30 days after my last painting to wrap. In that time I'm going to take your suggestion and get a few estimates on what it would cost to paint a stripped and prepped car, with all the prep I'm willing to do for the wrap. My focus will be on the warranty, and whether that's a realistic expectation within this budget.
05-27-2014, 01:10 PM
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I forgot to add (as I had to rewrite the entire message) that body shops typically give you a lifetime warranty. The MR2 in that photo was the very first car I painted complete. The prep was immaculate, and used PPG products all the way through the process. The paint was just as good after 8 years as it was day one. That is a good question to ask body shops, because some will try to save money by using cheaper clear coats, primers, or what have you. Stick with PPG, Dupont, or BASF products, and you should be fine. Also, feel free to judge the shop by the other cars you see there, and as I have said here before, judge them by the front office. If it looks clean and professional, that's your shop.
06-17-2014, 05:12 PM
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Well, a pro paint job just isn't in the works for me. Either they're too busy with other jobs (lots look filled with what look like insurance jobs?), too expensive, or they don't want to play ball with the idea of me doing all the prep.....probably would be a good to to "know somebody," but I don't No sweat. Onward.
Dent and ding removal included the replacement door:
Down to bare metal. Dents and dings removed. Smoothed and painted. Clear coat and polish to follow. All told, there's probably ten spots around the car like this that needed varying degrees of attention. I'm no body man, but I'm proudest of the midline on that door....it was dinged in a few places. It was beat out from the inside, just a little filler skimmed on the surface:
And so on. Pulled the mirrors off, taped them up and shot paint around the inner edges up to where the wrap will meet. Decided against trying to remove the mirror glass after reading up on it:
Hoping to get it all done by the end of the month, so I can wait the 30 days the paint needs before I can wrap it.
No sweat. Onward.Dent and ding removal included the replacement door:
Down to bare metal. Dents and dings removed. Smoothed and painted. Clear coat and polish to follow. All told, there's probably ten spots around the car like this that needed varying degrees of attention. I'm no body man, but I'm proudest of the midline on that door....it was dinged in a few places. It was beat out from the inside, just a little filler skimmed on the surface:
And so on. Pulled the mirrors off, taped them up and shot paint around the inner edges up to where the wrap will meet. Decided against trying to remove the mirror glass after reading up on it:
Hoping to get it all done by the end of the month, so I can wait the 30 days the paint needs before I can wrap it.