TRACK VERSION Can't go on track?
01-30-2005, 08:20 PM
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TRACK VERSION Can't go on track?
I have a 350z for some time but never bring it to track. I am planning thou. However, when i go to a car mechanic, he mention that my Z, a track version, are not suitable to go on track without minor adjustment.
He said that my original tired are not meant for track. In two lap, my tire would be exchausted (my tired has been use for 14000KM).
Then he mention my disc brake is not suitable. He said its not properly ventilated point it to a sample which has hole on it.
So is my brembo brake sufficient or i have to change it? or I have been rip?
He said that my original tired are not meant for track. In two lap, my tire would be exchausted (my tired has been use for 14000KM).
Then he mention my disc brake is not suitable. He said its not properly ventilated point it to a sample which has hole on it.
So is my brembo brake sufficient or i have to change it? or I have been rip?
01-30-2005, 08:41 PM
#4
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You'll be fine.
Prep your car by making sure EVERYTHING is in working order, safety equipment, fluids are topped off, etc.
Make sure you are running a racing pad, as you will quickly wear out the stock Brembo pads.
Then go out and take your time, learning your abilities and your car.
Best of luck.
... and Andretti is a professional racecar driver, westpak is telling you to not going out and go drive like a pro. Make sense?
Prep your car by making sure EVERYTHING is in working order, safety equipment, fluids are topped off, etc.
Make sure you are running a racing pad, as you will quickly wear out the stock Brembo pads.
Then go out and take your time, learning your abilities and your car.
Best of luck.
... and Andretti is a professional racecar driver, westpak is telling you to not going out and go drive like a pro. Make sense?
01-30-2005, 09:16 PM
#5
things I've heard from drivers who are better than me and have driven stock Z's on the track:
the power steering fluid will boil
the stock clutch gets mushy feeling
car overheats because of stock radiator, thermostat, oil pan, lack of oil cooler
differential oil/fluid gets too hot
stock brakes obviously fade, brembos don't, but regardless need racing brake pads
stock tires don't provide tons of grip at racing temps
stock brake fluid loses efficiency
stock LSD isn't very effective
My hasn't been tracked in stock form so I can't comment on anything. I'm just stating what I've heard
the power steering fluid will boil
the stock clutch gets mushy feeling
car overheats because of stock radiator, thermostat, oil pan, lack of oil cooler
differential oil/fluid gets too hot
stock brakes obviously fade, brembos don't, but regardless need racing brake pads
stock tires don't provide tons of grip at racing temps
stock brake fluid loses efficiency
stock LSD isn't very effective
My hasn't been tracked in stock form so I can't comment on anything. I'm just stating what I've heard
01-30-2005, 09:52 PM
#6
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i have a touring model and i track it a few times a year.
i did have brake problems but with some good pads and dot 4 brake fluid youll be fine
actually with the brembo you really dont need aftermarket pads do track it once or twice just bring a set of extra stock ones in case you go through them
there are a lot of cars that track all the time that are not the quality of a Z and they do fine!
good luck
i did have brake problems but with some good pads and dot 4 brake fluid youll be fine
actually with the brembo you really dont need aftermarket pads do track it once or twice just bring a set of extra stock ones in case you go through them
there are a lot of cars that track all the time that are not the quality of a Z and they do fine!
good luck
Last edited by **; 01-30-2005 at 09:54 PM.
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01-31-2005, 03:57 AM
#9
Your mechanic is right. Just some minor tweaking will make your first track day much more pleasurable.
Change to DOT-4 brake fluid and get some track rated pads. Your tires are fine. I know people who have 8-10 track days on the stock tires.
Good luck and have fun out there.
Change to DOT-4 brake fluid and get some track rated pads. Your tires are fine. I know people who have 8-10 track days on the stock tires.
Good luck and have fun out there.
01-31-2005, 04:53 AM
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Guys the mechanic is there to help you not sell you things. Its just precautions.
Your brakes are fine, but like mentioned get new pads. Also where is your tread measured against the tire wear bar? Maybe for safety you dont have enough tread on your tires?
Off Topic:
What is the recomended DOT brake fluid? Also notice any differences with changing it? Will a non tracked car benefit?
Your brakes are fine, but like mentioned get new pads. Also where is your tread measured against the tire wear bar? Maybe for safety you dont have enough tread on your tires?
Off Topic:
What is the recomended DOT brake fluid? Also notice any differences with changing it? Will a non tracked car benefit?
01-31-2005, 05:41 AM
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DOT4 brake fluid is the recommended fluid for track events. tghat is what most of us that track a lot use. there are different brands, and we all chose different ones for different reasons (prices, name, things like that).
brake fluid should be changed, and at least bleed your brakes often. this will keep adding new fluid in and slowly change out the old stuff. i typically tracked my car (either tracks or autocross)2 or 3 times a month during the summer, and would bleed my brakes before every race, and flush the entire system once a month. but i am picky like that. i would change my oil before every race, and change the transmission fluid every other .
i never noticed a big difference on the street. i was using regular fluid and stock brakes. then switched to DOT 4. (later on then switched to a BBK and dot 5.1). for stock brakes (but track pads) and DOt4 there wasn't a real difference on the street. this is because the higher the dot #, the higher the boiling temp, and this temperature is never reached on the street. this is the same as racing pads, they never fully heat up on the street.
so in the short, a non track car will not see a difference from going to DOT 4, 5, or 5.1
brake fluid should be changed, and at least bleed your brakes often. this will keep adding new fluid in and slowly change out the old stuff. i typically tracked my car (either tracks or autocross)2 or 3 times a month during the summer, and would bleed my brakes before every race, and flush the entire system once a month. but i am picky like that. i would change my oil before every race, and change the transmission fluid every other .
i never noticed a big difference on the street. i was using regular fluid and stock brakes. then switched to DOT 4. (later on then switched to a BBK and dot 5.1). for stock brakes (but track pads) and DOt4 there wasn't a real difference on the street. this is because the higher the dot #, the higher the boiling temp, and this temperature is never reached on the street. this is the same as racing pads, they never fully heat up on the street.
so in the short, a non track car will not see a difference from going to DOT 4, 5, or 5.1
01-31-2005, 07:21 AM
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dot 4 won't make much of a difference on the street. you won't really notice a difference
full track pad are bad for the street. They do not start braking very well until they get warmed up, and they will not get to that level on the street. they are also noisier and create more dust.
there are many types of pads out there that are great for dual duty. good for a few track days, but also still safe to use on the street. i used to use EBC green stuff pads. they worked very well for the dual duty roll (daily driver, weekend racer).
full track pad are bad for the street. They do not start braking very well until they get warmed up, and they will not get to that level on the street. they are also noisier and create more dust.
there are many types of pads out there that are great for dual duty. good for a few track days, but also still safe to use on the street. i used to use EBC green stuff pads. they worked very well for the dual duty roll (daily driver, weekend racer).
01-31-2005, 10:58 PM
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Thanks. Point noted.
Will change to 4.1 dot brake fuel.
Just to double confirm, the pad is the one that u can see the brembo brake is attach to. Meaning track version are like those with holes?
Will change to 4.1 dot brake fuel.
Just to double confirm, the pad is the one that u can see the brembo brake is attach to. Meaning track version are like those with holes?
02-01-2005, 05:20 AM
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FYI-
dot 3, 4 and 5.1 are all compatible with each other. dot 5 might not be. please check with your brake manufacturer before using dot 5. (DOT 5 is silicone based, normal brake fluid is Poly Glycol Ether)
here is a good discription
SILICONE BASED FLUID
Fluids containing Silicone are generally used in military type vehicles and because Silicone based fluids will not damage painted surfaces they are also somewhat common in show cars.
Silicone-based fluids are regarded as DOT 5 fluids. They are highly compressible and can give the driver a feeling of a spongy pedal. The higher the brake system temperature the more the compressibility of the fluid and this increases the feeling of a spongy pedal.
Silicone based fluids are non-hydroscopic meaning that they will not absorb or mix with water. When water is present in the brake system it will create a water/fluid/water/fluid situation. Because water boils at approximately 212º F, the ability of the brake system to operate correctly decreases, and the steam created from boiling water adds air to the system. It is important to remember that water may be present in any brake system. Therefore silicone brake fluid lacks the ability to deal with moisture and will dramatically decrease a brake systems performance.
POLY GLYCOL ETHER BASED FLUIDS
Fluids containing Poly glycol ethers are regarded as DOT 3, 4, and DOT 5.1. These type fluids are hydroscopic meaning they have an ability to mix with water and still perform adequately. However, water will drastically reduce the boiling point of fluid. In a passenger car this is not an issue. In a racecar it is a major issue because as the boiling point decreases the performance ability of the fluid also decreases.
Poly glycol type fluids are 2 times less compressible than silicone type fluids, even when heated. Less compressibility of brake fluid will increase pedal feel. Changing fluid on a regular basis will greatly increase the performance of the brake system.
FLUID SPECIFICATIONS All brake fluids must meet federal standard #116. Under this standard is three Department of Transportation (DOT) minimal specifications for brake fluid. They are DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 (for fluids based with Polyalkylene Glycol Ether) and DOT 5 (for Silicone based fluids).
MINIMAL boiling points for these specifications are as follows:
Dry Boiling Point Wet Boiling Point
DOT 3 401ºF 284º F
DOT 4 446º F 311º F
DOT 5 500º F 356º F
DOT 5.1 518º F 375º F
oh, and PS, becareful with brake fluid..... it works as a great paint remover.
for more information regarding brake fluids, and brakes in general, see this page
Brake Fluid Link
dot 3, 4 and 5.1 are all compatible with each other. dot 5 might not be. please check with your brake manufacturer before using dot 5. (DOT 5 is silicone based, normal brake fluid is Poly Glycol Ether)
here is a good discription
SILICONE BASED FLUID
Fluids containing Silicone are generally used in military type vehicles and because Silicone based fluids will not damage painted surfaces they are also somewhat common in show cars.
Silicone-based fluids are regarded as DOT 5 fluids. They are highly compressible and can give the driver a feeling of a spongy pedal. The higher the brake system temperature the more the compressibility of the fluid and this increases the feeling of a spongy pedal.
Silicone based fluids are non-hydroscopic meaning that they will not absorb or mix with water. When water is present in the brake system it will create a water/fluid/water/fluid situation. Because water boils at approximately 212º F, the ability of the brake system to operate correctly decreases, and the steam created from boiling water adds air to the system. It is important to remember that water may be present in any brake system. Therefore silicone brake fluid lacks the ability to deal with moisture and will dramatically decrease a brake systems performance.
POLY GLYCOL ETHER BASED FLUIDS
Fluids containing Poly glycol ethers are regarded as DOT 3, 4, and DOT 5.1. These type fluids are hydroscopic meaning they have an ability to mix with water and still perform adequately. However, water will drastically reduce the boiling point of fluid. In a passenger car this is not an issue. In a racecar it is a major issue because as the boiling point decreases the performance ability of the fluid also decreases.
Poly glycol type fluids are 2 times less compressible than silicone type fluids, even when heated. Less compressibility of brake fluid will increase pedal feel. Changing fluid on a regular basis will greatly increase the performance of the brake system.
FLUID SPECIFICATIONS All brake fluids must meet federal standard #116. Under this standard is three Department of Transportation (DOT) minimal specifications for brake fluid. They are DOT 3, DOT 4, and DOT 5.1 (for fluids based with Polyalkylene Glycol Ether) and DOT 5 (for Silicone based fluids).
MINIMAL boiling points for these specifications are as follows:
Dry Boiling Point Wet Boiling Point
DOT 3 401ºF 284º F
DOT 4 446º F 311º F
DOT 5 500º F 356º F
DOT 5.1 518º F 375º F
oh, and PS, becareful with brake fluid..... it works as a great paint remover.
for more information regarding brake fluids, and brakes in general, see this page
Brake Fluid Link
Last edited by mr2fasterthanyo; 02-01-2005 at 05:22 AM.
02-01-2005, 07:03 AM
#17
Re: TRACK VERSION Can't go on track?
Originally posted by kelvin1704
I have a 350z for some time but never bring it to track. I am planning thou. However, when i go to a car mechanic, he mention that my Z, a track version, are not suitable to go on track without minor adjustment.
He said that my original tired are not meant for track. In two lap, my tire would be exchausted (my tired has been use for 14000KM).
Then he mention my disc brake is not suitable. He said its not properly ventilated point it to a sample which has hole on it.
So is my brembo brake sufficient or i have to change it? or I have been rip?
I have a 350z for some time but never bring it to track. I am planning thou. However, when i go to a car mechanic, he mention that my Z, a track version, are not suitable to go on track without minor adjustment.
He said that my original tired are not meant for track. In two lap, my tire would be exchausted (my tired has been use for 14000KM).
Then he mention my disc brake is not suitable. He said its not properly ventilated point it to a sample which has hole on it.
So is my brembo brake sufficient or i have to change it? or I have been rip?
You could still have a good time without spending a fortune. Just do what the other posters have mentioned, and you'll be fine for your first 3 or 4 track events (proper brake pads and fluid).
02-01-2005, 09:25 AM
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your mechanic is right
you can go on track if you want, you will destroy the car if you track anywhere near the car limits.
to be safe like other have mentioned, you might want to change brake fluid, pads and brake lines. Also you might want to change your engine tranny and diff fluids to 100% synth. Rotors should be fine.
you can go on track if you want, you will destroy the car if you track anywhere near the car limits.
to be safe like other have mentioned, you might want to change brake fluid, pads and brake lines. Also you might want to change your engine tranny and diff fluids to 100% synth. Rotors should be fine.
Last edited by Tex Willer; 02-01-2005 at 09:29 AM.
02-01-2005, 11:43 AM
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I'm no pro, but in the Z I've done Lime Rock Park, Summit Point twice, and Pocono East and I've never experienced overheating or boiling power steering fluid. Three of those four events were in 90 degree heat. I run Motul 600 brake fluid (very high boiling point) and dedicated racing pads, along with R compound tires. My stock enthusiast brakes have been replaced with Stoptech big brakes, and they haven't faded yet with this set-up. So as for boiling power steering fluid and engine overheating, i'm just not sure. I suppose it could happen, but it hasn't happened to me.