Turned off from the Z
11-22-2002, 04:08 PM
#21
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i had the same experience. at multiple dealers. what's surprsing is that I went into the infiniti dealership the first day they got the G35 Coupe and the salesman gave me the keys and let me take it out by myself.
i like the Z enough where this wasnt a deterent but i wonder about those customers who are on the fence. and if nissan wants to sell as many as they do, they better make the dealers invest in some demos or something to finalize the sales for the iffy buyers.
i like the Z enough where this wasnt a deterent but i wonder about those customers who are on the fence. and if nissan wants to sell as many as they do, they better make the dealers invest in some demos or something to finalize the sales for the iffy buyers.
11-22-2002, 04:36 PM
#22
I pulled up to a dealer (Long Beach) in August and some guy who looked younger than me practically laughed when I asked if they'd have any Z's to see. He said I couldn't even buy one till '03. So I just walked away and bought it from a good dealer (Kathie Fullerton, Corona), and she was always totally professional. If anyone I know ever buys a Nissan, it will most likely be from her.
11-22-2002, 04:51 PM
#23
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Actually, I disagree with all but one post here...
This is a performance car that requires a special break in. Unless you think all dealers should fork over $40K for a test car, then their policy is good.
Here's my point, if I go to a dealer and ask for a Z to buy, I don't want one that has been driven ANY miles. I especially would be pissed if I heard people were "getting into it" as one post mentioned. (no insult intended 350zSpeedRacer)
Go to a Porche dealer and ask, "can I drive that little turbo job there?" You will get laughed out of the dealership. (and rightfully so)
These aren't Accords (a great car, but an off-the-shelf car), these are sports cars. I stand by the dealers decision to not allow test drives. In fact, I would never buy a Z that was allowed to be test driven. I want to know how every mile got on that Z.
Flame away,
Todd
This is a performance car that requires a special break in. Unless you think all dealers should fork over $40K for a test car, then their policy is good.
Here's my point, if I go to a dealer and ask for a Z to buy, I don't want one that has been driven ANY miles. I especially would be pissed if I heard people were "getting into it" as one post mentioned. (no insult intended 350zSpeedRacer)
Go to a Porche dealer and ask, "can I drive that little turbo job there?" You will get laughed out of the dealership. (and rightfully so)
These aren't Accords (a great car, but an off-the-shelf car), these are sports cars. I stand by the dealers decision to not allow test drives. In fact, I would never buy a Z that was allowed to be test driven. I want to know how every mile got on that Z.
Flame away,
Todd
11-22-2002, 05:36 PM
#24
Hey I totally agree with you, Todd. (And a fine first name you have, BTW.)
I put down a $2000 deposit and waited 2 months to get my test drive, and I wouldn't have had it any other way.
I put down a $2000 deposit and waited 2 months to get my test drive, and I wouldn't have had it any other way.
11-22-2002, 05:44 PM
#25
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I agree with the no test-drive policy until the dealership can get a dedicated demo car for people to test-drive. I know if I went on a test drive for a Z-car I wouldn't take it easy (much less follow the break-in instructions), and I'm sure most people are the same way. So if I were to be shopping for a Z I would want to know that the car I'm interested in hasn't been test-driven. Fortunately, I pre-ordered my car so I didn't have to worry about that (my dealer didn't even open the doors of my car for people to look in).
11-22-2002, 05:52 PM
#26
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Originally posted by ParadoxxNYC
Uhm, I bust my *** for my money every day. And I would like to know what I'll be sending around half a grand for every month, before I sign on the dotted line.
Uhm, I bust my *** for my money every day. And I would like to know what I'll be sending around half a grand for every month, before I sign on the dotted line.
When mine comes in I am going to test drive it and if it isn't all that people say, I have no problem walking away. If the dealer rep acts like an a$$ then I am gone too.
11-22-2002, 06:04 PM
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Dealers have non-pre-order cars NOW. Any one of them could be a demo. That's exactly what Infiniti is doing with the G coupe. The dealers around here are selling all of the Gs that come in, but they still retain the demo to keep the orders going.
Also, not all people care about a proper break-in. Just search here for "break-in" and you'll find many who think it's some kind of conspiracy by Nissan to keep them from paying warranty claiims. When the dealer finally does sell the demo, sure they'll have to take off a few hundred, but someone will buy it without thinking twice.
Lastly, ALL Zs have miles on them. All of them have been driven by factory, dock, and dealership personnel. If you think all of them are always gentle with all the cars, I would have to disagree.
I think the economy is lousy enough right now that it won't be too long before some dealers have Zs on the lot that they can't sell. I'm going to make a special effort to taunt them when the time is right - the dealers that are mistreating me now anyway.
-TB
Also, not all people care about a proper break-in. Just search here for "break-in" and you'll find many who think it's some kind of conspiracy by Nissan to keep them from paying warranty claiims. When the dealer finally does sell the demo, sure they'll have to take off a few hundred, but someone will buy it without thinking twice.
Lastly, ALL Zs have miles on them. All of them have been driven by factory, dock, and dealership personnel. If you think all of them are always gentle with all the cars, I would have to disagree.
I think the economy is lousy enough right now that it won't be too long before some dealers have Zs on the lot that they can't sell. I'm going to make a special effort to taunt them when the time is right - the dealers that are mistreating me now anyway.
-TB
11-22-2002, 07:10 PM
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Come to Nassau Col.
Doc,
This Sunday a group of us are meeting at the Nassau Col. If your free come on down and take a look at the different cars that will be there.
A pic from this Summer.
This Sunday a group of us are meeting at the Nassau Col. If your free come on down and take a look at the different cars that will be there.
A pic from this Summer.
11-22-2002, 08:23 PM
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In defense of dealers
While blatant rudeness from a dealer should never be tolerated, it is understandable that it might not be so easy to get a test drive in the Z, at least not right now.
I was a car salesman (Hondas, VWs) from 1985-1987. Though we never sold anything as hot as the 350 demand-wise, when the CRX-Si and the Scirocco 16v first came out, the management kept a pretty tight leash on the cars.
Whether you were a brain surgeon or a student, it didn't make any difference. I can personally vouch for the fact that in most cases, the better off somebody is financially, the less respect they have for the dealer. PLENTY of doctors and lawyers wasted my time on test drives with absolutely no intention of buying a car. They usually mentioned that they really weren't interested in buying when we were just leaving for the drive, before they even had a chance to evaluate the car.
Keep in mind, it's not the dealer's job to pay for an auto maker's PR for a new car by giving test drives to anyone who wants one. Test drives cost money, and lots of it. It's VERY common practice for a dealer to at least get as far as a credit check before they'll let you drive. After all, if you CAN'T buy the car, why should they have to pay for your personal enjoyment of that car? Go buy a car magazine until you can manage to pay your bills on time.
Test drives cost a dealer money in several ways besides gas costs:
1. Accidents, which increase the dealer's insurance premiums significantly. Believe it or not, accidents VERY often happen on test drives. The hotter the car, the more accidents they have. I once had a customer damage THREE VW Scirocco 16Vs in one incident.
2. Loss of value: Are you going to pay full retail for a Z with 500 or more test drive miles on it? NO, you're not. Test drives depreciate an average car by about $5.00 per mile, initially. Who pays? The dealer does. When you're talking about a Honda Accord, which there are typically 40 plus of at any Honda dealership, it's no real big deal. The customer can drive a 'demo' car. There is no such thing as a 'demo' 350. Most dealers have only one or two cars. They can't afford to run up the miles on them to show them to anyone who thinks they look cool.
3. Loss of income: If a salesman is out joy riding with someone who can't or does not want to buy a car, that saleman is not selling cars or pursuing leads. That's what he/she is getting paid to do.
I'm not saying it's right for the dealer to outright refuse a test drive, especially in the case of someone who really wants to buy. But it's wrong to slam them so hard for protecting themselves from loss.
They have no idea how serious you are until you SHOW them. In the case of the 350, I think you should expect no less. It is a high demand car.
Don't take it personally.
Dead
I was a car salesman (Hondas, VWs) from 1985-1987. Though we never sold anything as hot as the 350 demand-wise, when the CRX-Si and the Scirocco 16v first came out, the management kept a pretty tight leash on the cars.
Whether you were a brain surgeon or a student, it didn't make any difference. I can personally vouch for the fact that in most cases, the better off somebody is financially, the less respect they have for the dealer. PLENTY of doctors and lawyers wasted my time on test drives with absolutely no intention of buying a car. They usually mentioned that they really weren't interested in buying when we were just leaving for the drive, before they even had a chance to evaluate the car.
Keep in mind, it's not the dealer's job to pay for an auto maker's PR for a new car by giving test drives to anyone who wants one. Test drives cost money, and lots of it. It's VERY common practice for a dealer to at least get as far as a credit check before they'll let you drive. After all, if you CAN'T buy the car, why should they have to pay for your personal enjoyment of that car? Go buy a car magazine until you can manage to pay your bills on time.
Test drives cost a dealer money in several ways besides gas costs:
1. Accidents, which increase the dealer's insurance premiums significantly. Believe it or not, accidents VERY often happen on test drives. The hotter the car, the more accidents they have. I once had a customer damage THREE VW Scirocco 16Vs in one incident.
2. Loss of value: Are you going to pay full retail for a Z with 500 or more test drive miles on it? NO, you're not. Test drives depreciate an average car by about $5.00 per mile, initially. Who pays? The dealer does. When you're talking about a Honda Accord, which there are typically 40 plus of at any Honda dealership, it's no real big deal. The customer can drive a 'demo' car. There is no such thing as a 'demo' 350. Most dealers have only one or two cars. They can't afford to run up the miles on them to show them to anyone who thinks they look cool.
3. Loss of income: If a salesman is out joy riding with someone who can't or does not want to buy a car, that saleman is not selling cars or pursuing leads. That's what he/she is getting paid to do.
I'm not saying it's right for the dealer to outright refuse a test drive, especially in the case of someone who really wants to buy. But it's wrong to slam them so hard for protecting themselves from loss.
They have no idea how serious you are until you SHOW them. In the case of the 350, I think you should expect no less. It is a high demand car.
Don't take it personally.
Dead
Last edited by futuredeadguy; 11-22-2002 at 08:32 PM.
11-22-2002, 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by ParadoxxNYC
...I pulled up in my E320 Benz, wearing my suit (I'm not bragging at all, I'm a doctor, that's what I wear to work...
...I pulled up in my E320 Benz, wearing my suit (I'm not bragging at all, I'm a doctor, that's what I wear to work...
Just curious - some doctors are really careful to make sure everyone KNOWS they are a doctor so they can go ahead and have everyone start sprinkling rose petals on the floor in front of them, then some are just everyday people who know they aren't any more important than anyone else in the world.
Attitude (or lack thereof) is everything in any business transaction. You may have blown your load a bit early on this one, Doc. Just a guess, I could be wrong.
Dead
Last edited by futuredeadguy; 11-22-2002 at 10:45 PM.
11-22-2002, 11:15 PM
#32
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Originally posted by futuredeadguy
Gack! I think the REAL story may be unfolding. No wonder they told you to go away. Never saw a doctor wear a suit before and I deal with them daily in my work designing hospitals. Did you TELL the salesman you were a doctor right off the bat or did you wait a few minutes?
Just curious - some doctors are really careful to make sure everyone KNOWS they are a doctor so they can go ahead and have everyone start sprinkling rose petals on the floor in front of them, then some are just everyday people who know they aren't any more important than anyone else in the world.
Attitude (or lack thereof) is everything in any business transaction. You may have blown your load a bit early on this one, Doc. Just a guess, I could be wrong.
Dead
Gack! I think the REAL story may be unfolding. No wonder they told you to go away. Never saw a doctor wear a suit before and I deal with them daily in my work designing hospitals. Did you TELL the salesman you were a doctor right off the bat or did you wait a few minutes?
Just curious - some doctors are really careful to make sure everyone KNOWS they are a doctor so they can go ahead and have everyone start sprinkling rose petals on the floor in front of them, then some are just everyday people who know they aren't any more important than anyone else in the world.
Attitude (or lack thereof) is everything in any business transaction. You may have blown your load a bit early on this one, Doc. Just a guess, I could be wrong.
Dead
Actually, I don't bother trowing my profession or status in anybody's face. I just mentioned that fact simply to indicate that the dealer complained about the kids who run to them to get a fun ride. And I only assumed that since they ask you what you do and what you drive about 10 minutes into the converstaion, that it made a difference to them when deciding whether to let you drive the car or not. I came into the dealership as a serious buyer, not to flash my degree or income. I don't need reassurance from my local Nissan dealer that I am successful in life. I actually came in there ready to put down a deposit after a testdrive, which I was 100% sure I would love. But, alas, I was denied.
11-22-2002, 11:29 PM
#33
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Originally posted by futuredeadguy
Never saw a doctor wear a suit before and I deal with them daily in my work designing hospitals.
Dead
Never saw a doctor wear a suit before and I deal with them daily in my work designing hospitals.
Dead
11-23-2002, 03:08 AM
#34
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Originally posted by ExoticZ
I think you're missing the point here.
Yes, 8000 people pre-ordered the car, sight unseen. But, that was YOUR choice. This gentleman chose not to put money down first and look at the goods before making a final decision -- a very wise decision might I add.
I think you're missing the point here.
Yes, 8000 people pre-ordered the car, sight unseen. But, that was YOUR choice. This gentleman chose not to put money down first and look at the goods before making a final decision -- a very wise decision might I add.
11-23-2002, 07:04 AM
#35
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Re: In defense of dealers
Originally posted by futuredeadguy
There is no such thing as a 'demo' 350.
There is no such thing as a 'demo' 350.
The rest of the things you mentioned are just the cost of doing business. As I said before, Infiniti dealers have set aside a G for demo purposes. There are fewer of them and they are more expensive than the Z, so explain the logic there. What we're experiencing is simply the arrogance of dealers who have realized that they don't have to do anything to sell this car. They can just sit back, be rude to potential customers, and watch the $$$ roll in. That leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I will not return to those dealers EVER.
To your comment about doctors and lawyers wasting your time...Bull ****! Doctors and lawyers are busy enough at their jobs and don't have time to waste driving a car they don't want to buy. Why would a doctor be hell bent on driving a Civic Si of all things if he wasn't going to buy it? The only reason someone like that would even think about buying a turd like the Civic is if it's for his/her kid. (Disclaimer: Minor stereotyping going on here, but this is generally true and you know it!)
Dealers shouldn't let people drive or even sit in the pre-orders, but that's over now. There is regular stock coming all the time and people are only going to keep ordering them w/o a test drive for so long. I hope everyone remembers how they were treated when it's time to make the final purchase decision.
-TB
11-23-2002, 01:30 PM
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Re: Re: In defense of dealers
Originally posted by Them Bones
...There are fewer of them and they are more expensive than the Z, so explain the logic there. ...
...To your comment about doctors and lawyers wasting your time...Bull ****! ....Why would a doctor be hell bent on driving a Civic Si of all things if he wasn't going to buy it? ....I hope everyone remembers how they were treated when it's time to make the final purchase decision.
-TB
...There are fewer of them and they are more expensive than the Z, so explain the logic there. ...
...To your comment about doctors and lawyers wasting your time...Bull ****! ....Why would a doctor be hell bent on driving a Civic Si of all things if he wasn't going to buy it? ....I hope everyone remembers how they were treated when it's time to make the final purchase decision.
-TB
Not sure why you chose the Civic Si to make your point about my comment about doctors and lawyers wasting my time. It weakens your argument. I sold plenty of Accords, Quantums and Vanagons to doctors and lawyers - never a Civic. Regardless, the Vanderbilt transplant surgeon who lives across the street from me drives a '98 Honda Passport. His only other car is a '99 Camry. Don't ask me why. I guess he can afford a 350z if he wants one. Or a G35 or a Lamborghini for that matter. But then again, he's not the pompous, arrogant type who's out to impress people and demand special attention like a spoiled child. Pretty cool guy, actually.
Anyway, back to the topic. This thread started about NYC area dealers and how horrible they are. I beg to differ. I flew to NY with Dougrace to pick up his 350 in October from *** Nissan in The Bronx (see thread https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....&threadid=7962) I can't think of a single complaint about our experience other than the car was a few hours late arriving to the dealer - not their fault. We had a great time with their staff while we waited and the other customers there were well-treated, too. I'd go back to them in a heartbeat.
Like most things in life, I guess success is all in the approach you take.
Dead
Last edited by futuredeadguy; 11-23-2002 at 02:41 PM.
11-23-2002, 04:06 PM
#37
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it's all about profit of course, they'd rather sell all they get than to set one aside as a demo.
it's a shame because if someone who's on the fence about this car actually had a chance to drive the car, they'd be sold. it's one of those cars that surprises with how well it drives.
if i owned a dealership, i would use the demo as a competitive advantage over the other dealers who cant seem to take the long term view.
what's interesting is that the first dealer that wouldnt allow a test drive had no problem calling me everyday for a week trying to get me to put down money on the car.
i think the dealership practice with the 350Z leaves alot to be desired...test drive being just one.
it's a shame because if someone who's on the fence about this car actually had a chance to drive the car, they'd be sold. it's one of those cars that surprises with how well it drives.
if i owned a dealership, i would use the demo as a competitive advantage over the other dealers who cant seem to take the long term view.
what's interesting is that the first dealer that wouldnt allow a test drive had no problem calling me everyday for a week trying to get me to put down money on the car.
i think the dealership practice with the 350Z leaves alot to be desired...test drive being just one.
11-23-2002, 04:18 PM
#38
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Dead, I did not come in there holding up my diploma and income tax forms. I came there with an interest in the car. The fact that I was dressed the way I said I was, was because I just came in from work. I didn't dress up to go drive a car. I know that people don't like pompousness or stuck-up attitudes. I was asked about my car and my occupation, and I did not see a reason to lie about them.
11-23-2002, 04:41 PM
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Test Driving Z
It may be that some "Inventory" Z's are on hand by now, but last I observed only pre-ordered cars were on-deck at dealers. If any mileage showed on the odometer other than mandatory make-ready (3-10) I would not want to purchase any performance auto. Therefore, it is understandable that dealers would refuse "test drives". This is assuming that the car is pre-ordered and also that the prospective buyer is well screened and very serious about buying. Would you buy a "performance" auto that someone "Redlined" before proper breakin? I've purchased many, and in all cases the odometer has to be minimal, or no sale!
Last edited by will; 11-23-2002 at 04:45 PM.
11-23-2002, 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by ParadoxxNYC
Dead, I did not come in there holding up my diploma and income tax forms. I came there with an interest in the car. The fact that I was dressed the way I said I was, was because I just came in from work. I didn't dress up to go drive a car. I know that people don't like pompousness or stuck-up attitudes. I was asked about my car and my occupation, and I did not see a reason to lie about them.
Dead, I did not come in there holding up my diploma and income tax forms. I came there with an interest in the car. The fact that I was dressed the way I said I was, was because I just came in from work. I didn't dress up to go drive a car. I know that people don't like pompousness or stuck-up attitudes. I was asked about my car and my occupation, and I did not see a reason to lie about them.
My point is that they apparently weren't letting ANYBODY do test drives - which is very common on a high demand, low supply car - they WERE NOT discriminatory against you.
You got mad when they wouldn't let you drive when you came in with your Benz and your suit, as if that was supposed to magically change their house rules on test drives.
Then you condemned the CAR because of it. That's not fair. You don't have to buy the 350 - that's your choice. It's perfectly OK to feel that way.
But to publicly slam the CAR and Nissan because of your run in with a dealer was also your choice. It's my choice to defend both the car and Nissan and explain why I think you're wrong based on my personal experience at a NYC dealership. And that's OK, too. Right?
Dead