Is it BS, or is EVERYONE going FI???
08-16-2005, 07:06 PM
#81
yeah you're right this could go back and forth forever
anyway, I think the Z is a great car for modding despite some of the issues it has.
I guess to summarize things up, it is much cheaper to make a fast street FI Z than a track worthy FI Z.
driving long sessions on a road course track needs so many more precautions in terms of heat, traction, suspension, fuel, etc than you need on the street. I'm more oriented towards making a track Z and so I consider $20k the minimum to get a properly functioning track FI Z.
For the street, $10k or even less is probably just fine and all you really need to leave that C6 in the dust at a stoplight race.
But on a road course, FI can create more problems than it solves. You 'll have a hard time beating a C6 if something on the car overheats, or if your tires aren't up to the task of putting the power to the ground and keep you from spinning out. Then you need good brakes too which you don't need on the street or for drag racing.
Drag racing and street driving don't really push the car all that hard as far as endurance and that's the angle I look at modding cars. So yeah I guess I agree with you in that there's a lot of stuff I'd want on my FI Z that would be almost worthless other than the bling factor for a street/drag racing FI Z
anyway, I think the Z is a great car for modding despite some of the issues it has.
I guess to summarize things up, it is much cheaper to make a fast street FI Z than a track worthy FI Z.
driving long sessions on a road course track needs so many more precautions in terms of heat, traction, suspension, fuel, etc than you need on the street. I'm more oriented towards making a track Z and so I consider $20k the minimum to get a properly functioning track FI Z.
For the street, $10k or even less is probably just fine and all you really need to leave that C6 in the dust at a stoplight race.
But on a road course, FI can create more problems than it solves. You 'll have a hard time beating a C6 if something on the car overheats, or if your tires aren't up to the task of putting the power to the ground and keep you from spinning out. Then you need good brakes too which you don't need on the street or for drag racing.
Drag racing and street driving don't really push the car all that hard as far as endurance and that's the angle I look at modding cars. So yeah I guess I agree with you in that there's a lot of stuff I'd want on my FI Z that would be almost worthless other than the bling factor for a street/drag racing FI Z
Last edited by sentry65; 08-16-2005 at 07:11 PM.
08-22-2005, 09:53 AM
#82
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I think it is funny how everyone starts talking 1/4 mile drag racing when talking about modding a vehicle. Slicks this slicks that. Point is, if you want to run at a circuit, you need the C6 or to dump some serious money into your Z.
If you want to run at the 1/4 mile, then you can mod the heck out of just about anything and get better times then just about any stock Ferrari, let alone a C6 or 350z. I would still rather be driving the Ferrari, though, then your modded minivan that can beat me at the 1/4 mile track with your huge slicks.
If it is for street, then I would rather have an F/I 350z. I like how it looks more then the C6.
If you want to run at the 1/4 mile, then you can mod the heck out of just about anything and get better times then just about any stock Ferrari, let alone a C6 or 350z. I would still rather be driving the Ferrari, though, then your modded minivan that can beat me at the 1/4 mile track with your huge slicks.
If it is for street, then I would rather have an F/I 350z. I like how it looks more then the C6.
08-22-2005, 10:13 AM
#83
well what sort of benchmark should we use other than 1/4 mile?
stoplight to stoplight?
How many G's you can take in a 90 degree turn on the street?
how fast of a lap time that can be done on a specific track at a specific time during the year?
A lap time of some sort of universal autocross course?
slalom speed?
skidpad?
80-0 or 60-0 braking?
dyno?
how many high school kids look at your car and do the waynes world "we're not worthy" bow to you on a friday night?
I mean, really what real world benchmark to feel is the best way to benchmark a car in the real world that's easily accessible to everyone and has pretty much roughly the same testing parameters from place to place?
stoplight to stoplight?
How many G's you can take in a 90 degree turn on the street?
how fast of a lap time that can be done on a specific track at a specific time during the year?
A lap time of some sort of universal autocross course?
slalom speed?
skidpad?
80-0 or 60-0 braking?
dyno?
how many high school kids look at your car and do the waynes world "we're not worthy" bow to you on a friday night?
I mean, really what real world benchmark to feel is the best way to benchmark a car in the real world that's easily accessible to everyone and has pretty much roughly the same testing parameters from place to place?
08-22-2005, 11:53 AM
#85
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I don't have an issue with the 1/4 mile benchmark. What I have an issue with is the modded 1/4 mile benchmark. In other words, the 1/4 mile ran on slicks, with weight reduction, and a cold engine. I'm not saying there isn't a place for the modded 1/4 mile, but it has nothing to do with the "real" world. There is good reason why magazines don't post modded 1/4 mile times. Because, when the consumer is looking at buying a car, they don't care. It won't tell you anything about how the car performs on a daily basis.
08-22-2005, 12:02 PM
#86
so then we need to benchmark stoplight to stoplight. rolling 10-60mph tests etc?
BTW, how in the hell are you supposed to benchmark a car in day to day traffic without it being purely subjective?
People want hard numbers and the only way to get that is on some form of track where there isn't traffic.
I totally understand that people don't drive slicks on the street. Which is why I bring up TT Z's
a TT Z will not get full traction until 3rd or 4th gear at WOT on the street using street tires - even wide sticky street tires with an aftermarket LSD. I guess some people might perceive that as fast as in "I'm so fast I'm not going anywhere because my car has so much torque" but I'd rather actually go fast.
BTW, how in the hell are you supposed to benchmark a car in day to day traffic without it being purely subjective?
People want hard numbers and the only way to get that is on some form of track where there isn't traffic.
I totally understand that people don't drive slicks on the street. Which is why I bring up TT Z's
a TT Z will not get full traction until 3rd or 4th gear at WOT on the street using street tires - even wide sticky street tires with an aftermarket LSD. I guess some people might perceive that as fast as in "I'm so fast I'm not going anywhere because my car has so much torque" but I'd rather actually go fast.
08-22-2005, 12:28 PM
#88
I don't even know what we're talking about anymore
what was issue at hand?
I'm more interested in cars with street tires since that what I use on the street and even track events at this point.
I think it's interesting to know how slicks/racing tires perform in comparison to street tires.
All the people that want big turbo power with huge dyno numbers can't put their huge power down on the street with street tires. Some might even call that rice. Having something on the car that isn't actually functional and more for show (dyno queen). Have all this huge power, and the gearing and Z's design etc aren't set up to put that huge dyno number of torque to the ground out on the street.
I have never ever ever ever seen anywone run 1/4 mile faster than 12.2 on street tires with a turbo setup
People with superchargers and dramatically less torque are capable of running the same times on street tires because even though they have less power, they have traction
what was issue at hand?
I'm more interested in cars with street tires since that what I use on the street and even track events at this point.
I think it's interesting to know how slicks/racing tires perform in comparison to street tires.
All the people that want big turbo power with huge dyno numbers can't put their huge power down on the street with street tires. Some might even call that rice. Having something on the car that isn't actually functional and more for show (dyno queen). Have all this huge power, and the gearing and Z's design etc aren't set up to put that huge dyno number of torque to the ground out on the street.
I have never ever ever ever seen anywone run 1/4 mile faster than 12.2 on street tires with a turbo setup
People with superchargers and dramatically less torque are capable of running the same times on street tires because even though they have less power, they have traction
Last edited by sentry65; 08-22-2005 at 12:30 PM.
08-22-2005, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by alpine
Someone already posted a reply to this, but I can provide some input as well, perhaps some of it will be repetitive.
(8) You want to build the VQ to tolerate more? All you should need is about
10K to get it done, and maybe another 2K to monitor it all, plus the
additional 15K for turbos, installation, exhaust, wheels, tires....
(8) You want to build the VQ to tolerate more? All you should need is about
10K to get it done, and maybe another 2K to monitor it all, plus the
additional 15K for turbos, installation, exhaust, wheels, tires....
To me, running with the big dogs on the street or the track is worth every single dollar spent on my TT project.
Last edited by jdx911; 08-22-2005 at 03:47 PM.
08-22-2005, 03:46 PM
#91
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Originally Posted by sentry65
yeah I agree, and you'll have much much fewer issues than the street TT Z's.
most street cars don't run much more than 400whp though
most street cars don't run much more than 400whp though
Agreed.
Don't get me wrong, most of the SC, ST and TT kits out there are safe at around 360-400 whp with proper tuning.