kcobean

iTrader: (2)

You're probably right. The issue with "doing away with guns" in the U.S. (aside from the constitutional issues) is that it will start with the law-abiding citizens first and it will probably take 100 years (or longer) to flush the guns out of the criminal community which is 100 years that we as Americans have to live in a society where only criminals have guns. Not on my watch.

Additionally, guns are a hobby, sport, etc. to many of us, and in that regard, making guns illegal makes no more sense than making gardening illegal (I could kill you with a shovel just as easily as a gun).

See the predicament?

djnc

iTrader: (8)

i don't think a shovel has the range or power of a gun...and guns as a hobby is fine with rifles, but not assault rifles, shotguns or machine guns...certain guns should be outlawed, since they have no purpose except to kill mass quantities of people

Hraesvelg

iTrader: (1)

lol, and I'm glad I'm not British! We can still own guns here.

RJCTouring

I don't think most people realize what the effect of actually shooting someone would have on their mental condition. I am all for the right to carry firearms, but if you do carry one and do use it, you better be ready for the reality of your actions.

I am not talking about having to face the legal system, but actually seeing the result of your action with your own eyes. Potentially watching someone die before your eyes in a manner that isn't going to clean like on TV.

Ponder that fact when you decide whether or not to "pack".

En-GLaived

The day I turn 21 I am getting my CCW Permit, buying a FN Five-SeveN, buying two crates of 1000 rounds, and then hitting the range for a good few hours. Shouldnt need to buy ammo too often. I have guns in my life for a long time also (one grandfather was in WWII other was in Vietnam) and I have been shooting guns for a long time, I cant wait till the day I can carry. I have been in a lot of situations (sadly) where me or my friends have been in danger, ive been with a friend when he was actually robbed at gunpoint at a stoplight. Just some random guy walking down the street, he had his music playing(my friend) and out of no where the guy runs up to his window, draws a gun and puts it in my friends face and asks for his wallet and cell phone, then he just runs off before the light turns green. I dont live in a bad part of Tampa either, its just criminals today like to hang out and around nice areas of town so they can meet a certain risk vs reward quota they have I guess. Thats just one situation, if I saw my friend, who I have known since 2nd grade (I am now a sophmore in college) get shot I would have hated myself for not being able to stop it. Sad thing, he has the same upbringing as me when it comes to guns, yet neither of us can carry and protect ourselves.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

I'll guarantee you that I could kill another human being with one hit from a shovel just as easily as with one bullet from a gun. The effective range may be less but the effect is the same. The saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is the absolute truth whether you like guns or not.

I fail to understand the logic that an "assault rifle" is more dangerous than a bolt-action rifle. A bullet is a bullet. Just because the assault rifle can repeat faster doesn't mean squat. The assault-rifle *could* kill mass quantities of people. So can your car, yet the states give every a-hole that knows where the gas pedal is a license for that without a background check. I know that argument frustrates people, but if you break it down, its the same thing and cars are more readily available.

If you look at the sniper(s) that were shooting people here in the MD/DC/VA area a few years back, they used an "assault rifle", but did they fire more than one shot at a time? Nope, one shot, one kill. So would banning their "assault rifle" have stopped their killing? No, they could have used a bolt-action rifle to do exactly the same thing. See the point?

Shotguns are ideal for hunting and home-defense, no problem there. Machine guns require a federal license to own and I can't recall a single incident in recent years where a fully automatic weapon was used in the commission of a crime, can you? It's not like you can buy a machine-gun at Wal-mart. That says to me that allowing ownership of them as currently allowed isn't a problem.

Hraesvelg

iTrader: (1)

Five-7 Ammo is expensive!! Plus that's such a fast and small round, I don't think it would be very good for defense unless your attacker has on a vest.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

You are absolutely right....It's an intensely horrific thought. However, I'd survive that a lot better than having to look at my dead 6-year old son or my dead wife because I wasn't prepared to defend myself and my family. I won't place a value on human life, but when it comes down to it, it's something I've come to think of as an acceptable risk.

En-GLaived

It has some good stopping power, look at all the special ops. using it overseas. Of course they get the better variant of the ammo than us civilians do. But I like how it is only 1.6 pounds fully loaded and has a 20 round mag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-seven

I have wanted this gun for a very long time =P

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

My only comments are that a) 1000 rounds and a bunch of range time won't make you a more effective carrier. You NEED to take a class tailored to concealed carry. Much of what you learn will revolve around law and policy which is of paramount importance when you are CCW. You will also learn "space tactics" which involves putting distance/objects between you and your assailant so that you have more time and uninterrupted space to either flee (if required in your state) or to draw your weapon. Carrying a concealed weapon is about so much more than being able to hit your target. b) In the scenario you mention, you would not have been able to stop your friend from getting shot if you had a weapon because if you think about how that would play out you drawing your weapon in the passenger seat of a car on someone already holding a gun on you is a sure-fire way to get you and your friend shot. The best you could have done is to defend yourself after the first shot is fired. The use of a weapon in such a manner is ALWAYS going to be complicated and requires judgement that is as more finely honed than your shooting skill.

All that said....Good for you for getting your CCW Permit. Responsible legal carriers ultimately means less crime in the long run.

Ringo

Back to the "keeping a gun in your z" issue...if you're one of those individuals that gets heated easily, like the first poster, I suggest you carry a realistic-looking pellet pistol in your car. Often times, all the criminal needs to see is the gun and he'll back right off.

There are some pellet pistols available that you can't tell that they're not a real firearm. For instance, I have a semi-auto Gamo P-23, which looks axactly like a P-230, and though I've never had to show it, it makes me feel better without the need to have a permit or true firearm.

I should note that while it won't kill, it'll hurt like hell if I ever need to use it! I know for a fact that it can shoot through several layers of clothing (they weren't being worn). How would you like to have 12 pellets embedded deep in your skin?... So I know it will stop an offender in his tracks.

Hope this helps, Chris

RJCTouring

Agreed, and that is about the only scenario where I think I would consider it, personally. Of course, in the heat of any situation who knows how one might react. I can just say that with any premeditation, that scenario is the only certain one that would invoke a pre-determined response if the threat were serious enough.

RJCTouring

I think this is a bad idea. You are escalating a situation by pulling your "gun" but then if the other individual decides to follow suit, you are standing there with a pellet gun.

You're potentially banking your life on the hope that the other indivual will turn tail and run at the sight of a fire arm.

As has been said, I think if you are pulling our your firearm, you better be using it... not waving it for show.

Hraesvelg

iTrader: (1)

You'll shoot your eye out kid!

Joeys_z

iTrader: (-1)

This is the worst advice I have ever read......You don't use a gun of ANY type to "hurt" someone.

1. You only pull a firearm with the intent to fire.
2. You only fire that gun with the full intent to kill.

En-GLaived

Umm thanks but I was saying I want to go to the range because I havnt ever shot a Five-SeveN (I already have lots of trigger time) but I am in love with it. I have been brought up around two things. Guns and cars. I respect both and learn how to use both to the best of my ability.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

I understand what you're saying. I was just suggesting that you take a CCW class. It will teach you a LOT about using a gun for personal defense.

Here's a few questions:

1) Does your state have a mandatory "attempt to flee" code? Virginia does not, we have a "stand your ground" policy.

2) Are you allowed to conceal in a restaurant that sells alcohol? In VA, we must open carry in such restaurants/bars.

3) Does your state have a "must notify" clause, where you must inform the police of your "weapon status" when confronted (like for a traffic stop)? VA does not require this.

4) At what point in a confrontation are you within the law to draw your weapon.

5) Under what circumstances are you properly using your weapon as a "thread of deadly force" and when are you criminally "brandishing a firearm".

Point being that knowing how to point and shoot and knowing how, when, what do under the CCW laws are quite different, and we want as many well-educated carriers out there as possible.

And to say something on topic....having a gun stored "in your car" is irresponsible gun ownership IMHO.

BENSIN

If someone messes with me i just show them my big pee pee and they get scared and run away.

paco3131

Louisiana we carry guns in are cars. Our car is considered part of our home. no liciense needed!!!!!! just can not be concealed

Ringo

My advice works well for anyone that doesn't live in a major metropolitan area. I live in an area where people don't pack heat- they have baseball bats and crowbars, if anything. The point of having something that looks like a gun, is that people will be afraid of it.

My father was in the military, and I got that advice from him. He keeps a weapon in his car. He's only had to use it (and I don't mean FIRE it) once. ...The man took off running.

Futhermore, he would smack you for saying what you said. In situations like this, he would pull a firearm with the intent NOT to fire it. It's merely meant to scare.

Obviously, if you live in an area where you're likely to be the victim of armed robbery or assult, you could benefit from a true firearm. Even so, a single pellet to the face can blind and incapacitate, leaving you plenty of time to escape, without killing the aggressor.

Last but not least, calm down. This advice will work beautifully for anyone not wanting to pack heat, but desiring protection. If you live in an area with a high crime rate, you're better off owning a firearm (or not pissing people off in the first place, like the original poster.) Fortunately, I live in a relatively crime-free area, and this is all the protection I will ever need, not to mention I'll never have to live with someone's death on my hands.

I realize that not everyone lives in the kind of place I do, and I may disagree with your opinion, but I respect it, and I ask that you give me the same courtesy.

Chris