The Apple

I dunno, does a car's popularity on ebay count as some kind of indicator? News to me...

kyle jones

Actually......It does....

EBay, as an auction system, represents what the market is willing to pay (and shows what sellers are trying to get) for any given product. It is quite an efficient pricing mechanism (just like the entire economy). In fact, it is so efficient in determining the "market price" of any given good that pawn shops, when they quote you (or someone) a price on a good, they will quote you a price they have just looked up on EBay!

spf4000

Most of those were reasonably priced, but some people are expecting way too much money for their used Z. No one wants to buy a used car for over MSRP of a new car. Pretty lame.

LS350Z

What a pawn shop reflects has no way any indication on what a $30k dollar car reflects. The fact is that December-Feburary is the worst time to sell a car at a reasonable price. History shows that over these 3 months automobile values are up to 20% lower then spring/summer months. I speculate sport cars are the biggest factor in this.

kyle jones

I'm not quite certain what your saying here...

Do you mean that Ebay accurately prices low cost goods, but that it doesn't for automobiles because they are more expensive?

If so, then that isn't correct. Ebay simply allows a viewer to gauge the "market clearing price" of a commodity. Just because the price of a car tends to be seasonal (dropping in the winter) doesn't mean that Ebay or any other auction mechanism isn't able to price the item.

The prices of 350Z's being auctioned on Ebay seems to be dropping. This is a clear reflection of what many on this forum are finding at the actual dealerships. That is, increasingly, more dealers are willing to sell at MSRP, and some are even hinting at selling below sticker. It seems to me that Ebay is quite good at telling us what the market value of a product is!

ares

iTrader: (2)

would you purchase a car off ebay? I wouldnt, I buy cars the normal way, go out and look at it, discuss the terms and purchase the car. it takes a different kind of person to sit here and type in his info to purchase a car he's never seen.

when it comes time to purchase a car, i dont even look on Ebay cause 99% of them arent in my area, and Im not interested in bidding on a sigh unseen car, or picking it up from god knows where.

for these reasons, I think I am not alone in the group that would not get involved with such a huge purchase as a car on such a platform.

now I might call a number, discuss it and go from there, but I still dont just cause they arent near me.

its just not a good platform to sell a car. but anyway, yeah they go low, but that is the idea of an auction... either way, Im not looking to sell my Z, Im happy with it, and if things go according to plan, I dont ever want to sell it, Ill just get a second car and eventually this will transform into a weekend racer and more. so resale value really doesnt interest me.

tbcz

I agree with ares. I think the actual percentage of the car buying public who would purchase a car on eBay is very small. As such, it is not a good indicator of the true market value of the car, since it represents a tiny fraction of the true market. Statistically, it is dangerous to make an assumption about something involving thousands of objects based on five examples. I'm not saying that that the cars are not coming down in price, just that eBay is not a very good place to judge this by. A much more valid indicator would involve a much larger sample of cars.

The Brickyard Rat

iTrader: (1)

Over the weekend I checked eBay Zs looking for a certain combination. There were 25 active auctions & 41 completed; enough to give a feel for activity.

I don't think eBay is the definative word on market price as it is with items that can be easily shipped. On the other hand, the fact that there are few, if any sales, over MSRP is some indication people are finding what they want w/o resorting to eBay.

z_brit

i didn't look at these specific auctions but most of the ones i've seen on eBay recently have been for the touring w/ AT combination which is the one also most likely to be available on a dealership's lot...

i'm still waiting for my 350z to come in (jan '03) but i get calls from other dealerships trying to sell me theirs and invariably they are all also touring models with AT...

no offense to anyone who bought a touring with AT but they are not for me and most other sports car fans which is why they might not be doing so well in the market...

SiGGy

Wait until they are producing 40-50k of them a year. The price will drop even more.

You pay to have the newest toy. But when they stated they were going to produce 35k+ a year. You should have known the price would come down. Especially once the stock exceeds the demand.

The 350z will be like the PT cruiser.

Pretty basic stuff here...

z_brit

of course at some point demand will equal supply that is basic economics however...

right now 350z production figures are slated to be around 30,000 / year and right now it's only available in the NA and Japanese markets...

wait until it's also available in europe and elsewhere and we'll see whether global demand meets global supply for a while yet even if production numbers do rise to what you quoted...

clearly the 350z is not like the PT cruiser which sold 144,000 cruisers in the usa alone alone in 2001 and 147,000 in mexico, that's not a very good analogy...

the 350z will be more akin to it's immediate competitors with similar worldwide production numbers, such as the s2000, and audi tt and still on the whole sell for at or around msrp several years after their introduction...

it's very easy to forget that the usa does not constitute the whole world and that there are other markets that might want to buy a car, there are still 400 million people in the EU who can't get the 350z yet...

anyone who thinks that there will be such a glut of 350zs in the usa in a year or two and who think they will get significant discounts should try walking onto a honda or audi lot and see how far they get asking for a big discount on an s2000 or tt, they may be in for a rude awakening...

importriders

They all didn't meet the reserve price. So how do you know how much they were trying to sell it for??? For all we know the reserve could be higher than MSRP.

z_brit

i'm not surprised, 4 out of 5 of the auctions were for the touring model, 3 of them with the MT which is a pricy option on that model...

if was gonna pay $35k+ for a car then i would have bought the g35 coupe, whereas my enthusiast model with all the trimmings at $29,614 was a bargain for what you get...

if anything the only mistake nissan has made is in it's estimation of demand and pricing for the touring model, whereas the performance and enthusiast models are the ones that are really moving...

SiGGy

I disagree. The #'s do not have to be the same for the analogy to be correct. Nor does the type of vehicle. Your defition of analogy is a bit off.

The PT was produced in very few numbers the 1st year. And was way overpriced. Similar to the people paying 5-10k+ for their 350z.

Once the PT was in full production and it had lost it's "newness" factor. The sales declined. And as such so did the price of the vehicle to below MSRP. Now they have problems getting them off the lot. This will show it's face again once the 350z is in a full production swing.

I don't agree with you on the S2K/Audi TT. They are in adbundance. Especially the TT. However neither vehicle was slated to sell as well as the 350z. Nissan has ambitious goals for the 350z. You can most certainly get a S2K for under MSRP.

z_brit

I don't recall defining what an analogy is. However, it's true that the numbers don't have to be the same. However your analogy would be better suited to a new model similarly mass produced, domestic vehicle, which the 350z is not.

You are missing the point that a *global* production run of a foreign car of even 40k is not the same as producing hundreds of thousands of a domestic brand for the North America market alone.

Anyone paying over MSRP for a 350z is insane. Not to mention that NNA has outlawed their dealers from price gouging. How many people on this board have you seen that have paid $5-10k over MSRP? Very few. You are generalizing in order to make your argument where it's inaccurate to do so.

Again, this shows this is not a good analogy. The PT Cruiser can now be bought off a Chrysler lot for invoice. If you could let me know of any 2003 honda, nissan, toyota or audi that could be bought off a lot for invoice then I'd be interested to know about them. The PT Cruiser is domestically produced and mass produced for the US market. It is not the same as any foreign produced car, especially one with limited production numbers for the global market.

I never said they weren't available, I just said you'd be lucky to get a good discount under msrp on either. The most I was able to get on any S2000 after shopping around was $500 under msrp a few months ago. The fact remains they are foreign produced, have better reliability and resale values, and they will always sell closer to msrp than any us produced vehicles except for something like a vette or a viper.

SiGGy

Good point(s). But the 350z is certainly over MSRP. I have to ageee only an idiot would pay more. But you are also overlooking a lot of the owners on here put down a deposit and agreed on MSRP before the car was even produced.

My analogy was based on the newness factor and the fact that they only produced very few the 1st year of both vehicles. Regardless of the ammount produced in suceeding years. It still shows a pattern. And domestic vs. import in production really doesn't matter. The 350z already is starting to show lack of interest in specific parts of the US. (mainly because of weather) but I was mainly stating that once the newness factor wears off. The cars value will certainly drop.

So I don't agree 100%. The PT cruiser was a "ohh and ahhh" car when it was 1st avilable. Once you saw them 10x times a day driving around it lost it's finess. And also lost value. But I will agree with your statement that having an excess of vehicles from 170k produced (that was not 100% for US markets) vs. an excess from 40k (globally) will certainly have a worse effect on the value. I believe the older Z peaked sales up into the 80k marker some of years. I wonder if Nissan will make the same mistake twice. I still believe 40k will be more than the market will gobble up easily. But I hope not, the 350z is a slick car. However it's "ohhh and ahh" will wear off.

b.t.w.

S2K can be had for $30k in the Chicago area. (about $2k less than MSRP)

z_brit

wow, i'm amazed that people are paying over msrp at all...

when i ordered mine in october there wasn't even a suggestion of over msrp - just straight msrp and i know the mazda dealership i talked to was also only going to charge me msrp for the rx-8 when it comes out too...

that's a great deal on an s2k in chicago... maybe that weather factor has something to do with it because here in sunny austin there are used s2ks selling for over new price msrp!

this is a good thing because i'm much happier to be getting the 350z... eta for mine is jan 13th