Bored at work, I decided to do a little number crunching on the inherent horsepower value of the Z and of a Z equipped with the Alpine SC mentioned in another thread.

The raw stats are as provided by autos.yahoo.com and are for 2003 models (with the exception of the Trans Am).

Stats and weight to power ratio are pretty straight forward. To achieve the Power Value, I created an algorithm in which the optimal target car had a weight-to-power ratio of 10lbs/horsepower and a price of $100 per 1hp. Thus the "perfect" production car would be $30,000, would weight 3000 lbs, and have 300hp. How much a car's power and price varies over and under these values affected the "Power value" column.

As you can see below, based on a production models only, the Z is already high on the list.. ranking below the stupidly powerful Mustang SVT, the now discontinued Trans Am, and the light and cheap WRX. Valuewise, it is far ahead of other marquee names, mostly on strength of its relatively low price.

Drop on the Alpine SC, which has been estimated to add +60 rwhp to the Z and the 350Z moves to the top of the list for "Power Value". It also achieves a weight-to-power ratio just short of exotic territory, having 8.9lbs/hp! (I'm also continually amazed by the Dodge Viper... 6.7lbs/hp... unbelievable!!!)

Anywho... just something I thought would be interesting to talk about... here's the table...

car weight power ratio price Power value
350z Perf w/SC 3217 360 8.93 $34,000 0.329
Mustang SVT 3665 390 9.40 $33,300 0.320
Trans Am ('02) 3495 310 11.27 $28,025 0.316
Subura WRX 3085 227 13.59 $24,195 0.304
350z Perf 3217 287 11.21 $30,429 0.293
Honda S2000 2810 240 11.71 $32,600 0.262
Corvette Z06 3118 405 7.70 $51,135 0.254
Viper SRT 3357 500 6.71 $79,995 0.186
Boxter S 2911 258 11.28 $51,600 0.172
BMW M5 4024 394 10.21 $70,400 0.139
911 Carrera 4S 3240 315 10.29 $81,800 0.119
911 Turbo 3388 415 8.16 $116,200 0.105
Acura nsx 3.2L 3153 290 10.87 $89,000 0.103
Ferrari 360 Modena F1
3197 400 7.99 $170,779 0.073
aston martin vanquish V12
4046 460 8.80 $231,260 0.049

 

Let's try that table again...

......CAR.........WEIGHT...HP....RATIO...PRICE.....POWER VALUE
350z Perf w/SC....3217....360....8.93....$34,000....0.329
Mustang SVT........3665....390....9.40....$33,300....0.320
Trans Am ('02).....3495....310...11.27....$28,025....0.316
Subura WRX........3085....227...13.59....$24,195....0.304
350z Perf.............3217....287...11.21....$30,429....0.293
Honda S2000.......2810....240...11.71....$32,600....0.262
Corvette Z06.......3118....405....7.70....$51,135....0.254
Dodge Viper SRT ..3357....500....6.71....$79,995....0.186
Porsche Boxter S..2911....258...11.28....$51,600....0.172
BMW M5..............4024....394...10.21....$70,400....0.139
911 Carrera 4S...3240....315...10.29....$81,800....0.119
911 Turbo...........3388....415....8.16...$116,200....0.105
Acura NSX 3.2L...3153....290...10.87....$89,000....0.103
Ferrari 360 Modena F1
...........................3197....400....7.99...$170,779... .0.073
aston martin vanquish V12
...........................4046....460....8.80...$231,260... .0.049

 

Very interesting. Thanks for working all the details.

BTW, Happy New Year. Hope you can leave work early!

WayneTN

 

LOL so you take the lightest model out there (which is not the majority) then add a fictional blower to make the Z come out on top?

 

Umm... no, I did not take the lightest model Z for my comparison. Per autos.yahoo.com (which gets their data from Nissan just as they get specs about every manufacturer's car)...

Base.... 3188lbs
Enthusiast... 3197lbs
Performance... 3217lbs
Touring... 3247lbs
Track... 3225lbs

As it is, the Performance model is the middle of the pack, thought the real reason I picked it is because that is the model I own. In my comparison table, all cars sampled have weights for their manual versions listed.

Further, the supercharger is far from fictitious... it is currently under development and should be available some time 2nd qtr of 2003. The HP estimate is from a response made to the company about the product. See this thread...

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=12117

Though, I can see by the yellow card you're likely the type that would rather spout off the way you wish the world was rather than taking the time to research information before responding...

 

Now that's the kind of stuff the damn car mags should be printing. Why don't you send it off to R&D, C&D or Automobile?

You never know!

Fly

 

To put further comments to rest about my choice of Z model, I ran the program with other models (again MT versions)

Base model (lightest of the five)
weight-to-power ratio = 11.108lbs/hp
At a price of $26,269, Power value = 0.343!

That beats all comers without even adding the SC!

Base model w/Alpine SC
weight-to-power ratio = 8.86 (only 4 cars on the list can beat this number!)
Power value = 0.378!!!

Now... for the most common model of 350Z (which also happens to be the heaviest, MT or AT)...

Touring model
weight-to-power ratio = 11.314
power value = 0.280 (puts it directly below the 350Z performance model and still ahead of all but those I noted in my original message.

Touring model w/Alpine SC
weight-to-power ratio = 9.02
power value rating = 0.315

What's my point with all this?

Since there is a good chance (50-50) the Alpine SC may become the Nismo SC, I felt this was a good comparison of performance value. Sure you could hop up all these cars so that their motors would be producing 1.5x to 2.5x stock horsepower... but how many others would be under warranty if you did that?

 

Flyingscot...

thanks for the kind words!

I'm sure the reason we've never seen this type of analysis in magazines is that your control point (in this case the 3000lb, 300hp, $30,000 car) is somewhat subjective. Though, the numbers will still crunch the same... final results would be proportional to these numbers.

Could always start our own car magazine ... problem will be keeping it from being 350Z-biased!

 

Fictitious: Of, relating to, or characterized by fiction; imaginary.

The facts are that the supercharger is in fact not out with no final realease date -- and ... da dum ... no final horsepower figures. So both your claims of its release date AND it's horsepower figures are completely without merit. I too read that thread and find it far from conclusive in any way.

The way I wish the world was? Oh you mean like deliberatly making up statistics so that my car comes out at the top of some meaningless list? Yeah, obviously that's me.

Sigh. My original post was simply me chuckling at this humor of your math and procedure, not a personal attack as you turned this in to...

 

Very interesting. Great idea!

 

A) If I were simply chosing figures to put "my car" on top of the list, I would not have even bothered with the Alpine SC... why would I when there is a GReddy Turbo in the works that will be turning over 400rwhp.

B) If a SC add-on for the 350Z won't produce at least 60 hp, I'll eat my socks. What is in question is whether it will be a warrantied add-on...

C) This doesn't change the fact that only two cars currently in production ranked higher than a stock Performance 350Z on the value list and none would rank higher than a Base 350Z.

and
D) YOU (steve c) made this a personal slight to me in questioning my process. I work with statistical modeling for a living. I don't arbitrarily pluck numbers out of the air simply for the sake of bettering my point. I saw something in another post that was reason for great optimism (despite the fact that I'm rarely a 'glass half full' person) and wanted to share with other Z fans.

No hard feelings, but next time you may consider asking about logic behind the assumptions before making accusations of skewing the data.

Ultimately, the legitimacy of the comparison (for the supercharged car figures) will come down to whether it will be warrantied. Regardless, the factory car comparisons are still valid.

 

I agree.

Are you adding in the price of the blower to the 350 price? That's rough to do given we don't have one -- while we are at it why not throw in a blown S2k as well...

 

based on the Alpine SC thread in the performance mods forum and what I know of similar SC kits, assumed a high price point of around $3500 (that's probably overpricing it, though)... added the same figure to all three 350Z models' base prices (base price was used for all cars in the comparison)

Is there an S2000 SC kit that keeps the drivetrain under warranty? If so, I'll run the figures on it and throw it into the mix...

 

he has a point. en easier thing to use would be 100hp and 7000$(atleast when you include labor) for the greddy TT.

I think youd find it still comes out on top tho, since it beats the curve on the 100$ per hp. it is approximatly 70$ per hp.

for comparison if an intake gets 4hp, for 250$. that is 62.5$ per hp.

but hey, intakes are bad bang for the buck right? so many people spouting off useless info.

anyway, good chart, informative.

 

mcduck,
My project/hobby car is an Attack. I'd like to see how it fits into your table. Would you mind running these numbers:

Weight: 1870lbs.
Horsepower: 200HP
Cost: $25,000

And a supercharged version,

Weight: 1900lbs.
Horsepower: 235HP
Cost: $28,000

Thanks!

 

alear...

I'll need to double check these figures tomorrow at work (where original spreadsheet is) to ensure I set up the calculations the same. I think I have. If so, your Attack works up this way...

non-SC
wt-to-hp: 9.35
power value: 0.428

SC-ed
wt-to-hp: 8.085
power value: 0.442


Dat's ah spicy-a meatball!

Is an Attack a kit car or something? I've never heard of it...

 

Very interesting, I've read the initial post a couple of times and I think I understand what you're doing, but does it matter that the weight of the SC model did not increase over the regular performance model after the SC was added?

 

I agree... The problem was that I couldn't find any specs on how much weight a SC kit typically adds. If I go off alear's Attack numbers, it seems to be around 30lbs which seems a little high in my opinion.

Still, if we assume 30lbs, then the 350Z value figures only drop by 0.003 or...

350Z Base w/SC = 0.375 power value
350Z Performance w/SC = 0.326 pv
350Z Touring w/SC = 0.312 pv

Doesn't change the rankings. I still can't get over how much the Base model Z with no mods beats all other competitors.

Is it the best outright? Heck, no... I'd much rather have a Vanquish or a Ferrari... but for the price, it just can't be beat!

 

What are the numbers for the Z w/o the SC?
If you're going to add 60hp at $3500 to the Z, then this number should be factor into the other cars to level the playing ground. Else, some troll could suggest adding 100hp NOS at $500 on the WS6, which would tilt the scale.

 

that would be a fast car. but then shouldnt we figure in time of usable power? turbo may have lag, but nitrous runs for about 8seconds. woohoo, awesome. the Z was not meant to drag race.