Poor Decision: No All Wheel Drive
11-30-2005, 12:45 PM
#41
Originally Posted by ZlleH
The Z is my first RWD car as well. Actually, it's my first car that was higher then 110hp as well. So you can just imagine how I'm trying to get used to RWD as well as all the new HP 
I will say this though, I find RWD much more fun then FWD. Love the fish tailing(the deliberate ones)
I will say this though, I find RWD much more fun then FWD. Love the fish tailing(the deliberate ones)
I had a pretty easy FWD Progression with sporty Cars, '96 Sebring V6, '99 Eclipse NA, Turbo S40. the Z was a pretty big jump there... Though I miss the 2nd Gen Eclipse.
11-30-2005, 12:46 PM
#42
Originally Posted by sq40
No, Tricked out Silver S40 1.9t, I have a pretty good list of mods;
Ported and Polished Exhaust Manifold, Ported and Polished Intake manifold, Intake, 3" exhaust, Upgraded Mits 14t turbo, 550cc Injectors, Upsolute ECU, TurboXS MBC, Metal Turbo Ducting, VMS ultra Bore throttle body, 2" Drop, ADR DV8 Wheels and the best stereo in the world (really).
Plants about 275hp on the ground at 18psi.
Ported and Polished Exhaust Manifold, Ported and Polished Intake manifold, Intake, 3" exhaust, Upgraded Mits 14t turbo, 550cc Injectors, Upsolute ECU, TurboXS MBC, Metal Turbo Ducting, VMS ultra Bore throttle body, 2" Drop, ADR DV8 Wheels and the best stereo in the world (really).
Plants about 275hp on the ground at 18psi.
11-30-2005, 01:04 PM
#43
....for your health
Originally Posted by tonystark
Okay, what would help the Z move up in handling over the RX-8 and Mustang?
11-30-2005, 01:15 PM
#45
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Hey guys - speaking of AWD, I just heard on the radio that it is supposed to snow in DC this weekend. The only time that I drive my car is on the weekends. This sucks rotten @ss 
11-30-2005, 01:39 PM
#46
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Don’t get me wrong, I like the car that I have and I just don’t feel a d@mn thing for mustangs or the mazda. But when it comes to improving the Z, I think that something should be done about handling and I am suggesting that AWD maybe a workable solution. Below this says better handling to me. Granted somebody gave a second opinion and give the 350z higher marks but heck, the Z placed third in the main test run. I have seen other articles that have rated the Z lower than these two cars.
“…The tight suspension helps the car attack corners. And thanks to the 18-inch wheels and tires this sport coupe has grip to spare. The Nissan Z is a blast to drive at the limit but unlike the Mustang, the Nissan Z is less forgiving. You get the clear sense that if the Z lets go at speed it will not be pretty. The Mustang is easier to drive hard and hanging the tail out is cause for shouts of "Hell yeah!" rather than "Uh oh."…”
“…The new Mustang is light-years ahead of the previous versions and is simply better than the Mazda RX-8 and Nissan 350Z….”
“…As capable as it is on the track, however, finding the Z's limits on the street requires even more finesse — and guts. Moderate-speed maneuvers barely dig into its formidable grip, while higher-speed corners put you right up against its limits without much of a safety net on the other side. There's stability control on hand to help out, but it's hardly the kind of assistance you want to rely on. Whereas the RX-8 feels forgiving and light on its feet, the 350Z is unyielding and heavy. It doesn't delicately pick its way through turns — it steamrolls right through them…”
“…Unlike the Z that hammers its way through bends, the RX-8 glides through them in a manner that's far less intimidating. Its moderate body roll gives you a better sense of how hard the car is working compared to the ultrastiff 350Z, and when the grip does finally run out, it does so in a more progressive and controllable fashion…”
Originally Posted by failsafe
I'm confused. I've never read one thing about the Mustang outhandling the 350.
“…The new Mustang is light-years ahead of the previous versions and is simply better than the Mazda RX-8 and Nissan 350Z….”
“…As capable as it is on the track, however, finding the Z's limits on the street requires even more finesse — and guts. Moderate-speed maneuvers barely dig into its formidable grip, while higher-speed corners put you right up against its limits without much of a safety net on the other side. There's stability control on hand to help out, but it's hardly the kind of assistance you want to rely on. Whereas the RX-8 feels forgiving and light on its feet, the 350Z is unyielding and heavy. It doesn't delicately pick its way through turns — it steamrolls right through them…”
“…Unlike the Z that hammers its way through bends, the RX-8 glides through them in a manner that's far less intimidating. Its moderate body roll gives you a better sense of how hard the car is working compared to the ultrastiff 350Z, and when the grip does finally run out, it does so in a more progressive and controllable fashion…”
11-30-2005, 01:54 PM
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Haven't read those articles yet but that sounds about right based on my experience.
Originally Posted by mhoward1
Reread the articles. In both they mention that the 350Z was the better handler and more of the pure sportscar...
The RX8 won for being entertaining to drive slow, and the Mustang won for Retro styling and brutish V8 power off the line.
The RX8 won for being entertaining to drive slow, and the Mustang won for Retro styling and brutish V8 power off the line.
11-30-2005, 02:02 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by failsafe
Still nothing there about the Mustang outhandling the 350.
If you read carefully, they deliberately tried to avoid addressing the Mustang's handling shortcomings, but rather repeatedly talk about retro styling and power. I'm shocked to read that they completely disregarded its horrible interior build, which basically made me discredit the whole article. Plus, when you look at their stats, the Mustang is barely faster than the Z in their test runs, and its other performance areas suffer. It really makes you wonder what's going on.
I got the sense that they had to put the Mazda and the Mustang ahead, so they went ahead and tried to blame it on the Z being harder to drive and more rough. That's what they keep mentioning. Honestly, since when does "moderate body roll" a plus over stiff cornering? It's stupid.
I'm not trying to be a biased fanboy, but different magazines/sites always have different conclusions, so don't base your investment on some auto journalist's view.
11-30-2005, 02:07 PM
#51
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Want AWD? Get a truck. Im scared a nissan engineer is reading this and see's a market. But then again, everything can be fixed with a button. Give us the option!
11-30-2005, 02:12 PM
#52
....for your health
Car .................................Lateral g's L/R
2004 Nissan 350Z 6MT..........0.94/0.92
2004 Mazda RX8 6MT............0.93/0.94
2005 Ford Mustang GT 5MT....0.87/0.86
source: http://automobilemag.com/test_data/
Just because they say the Mustang is more forgiving doesn't mean it handles better.
2004 Nissan 350Z 6MT..........0.94/0.92
2004 Mazda RX8 6MT............0.93/0.94
2005 Ford Mustang GT 5MT....0.87/0.86
source: http://automobilemag.com/test_data/
Just because they say the Mustang is more forgiving doesn't mean it handles better.
11-30-2005, 02:51 PM
#53
Originally Posted by tonystark
Don’t get me wrong, I like the car that I have and I just don’t feel a d@mn thing for mustangs or the mazda. But when it comes to improving the Z, I think that something should be done about handling and I am suggesting that AWD maybe a workable solution. [...]
“…Unlike the Z that hammers its way through bends, the RX-8 glides through them in a manner that's far less intimidating. Its moderate body roll gives you a better sense of how hard the car is working compared to the ultrastiff 350Z, and when the grip does finally run out, it does so in a more progressive and controllable fashion…”
“…Unlike the Z that hammers its way through bends, the RX-8 glides through them in a manner that's far less intimidating. Its moderate body roll gives you a better sense of how hard the car is working compared to the ultrastiff 350Z, and when the grip does finally run out, it does so in a more progressive and controllable fashion…”
AWD is not the answer. Tires are. Try ADVAN AO48 tires. It's all the craze in Japan. Just watch any BMI video and you will see ADVAN rubber.
11-30-2005, 03:34 PM
#54
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These is also a big difference between AWD setups, not just in terms of the manufacturer, but how it is layed out
Alot of AWD cars and SUVs are FWD based, meaning most of the time it a front wheeler, the rears kick in when needed. Others are RWD based, it makes a difference at the level as well.
Also AWD does not = better handling in bad weather (snow of example). Too many people think they can drive normally in the snow and the awd will take care of things, which it does not. It will get you unstuck in snow possibly, it doesnt do much of anything when cornering or braking under those conditions.
Alot of AWD cars and SUVs are FWD based, meaning most of the time it a front wheeler, the rears kick in when needed. Others are RWD based, it makes a difference at the level as well.
Also AWD does not = better handling in bad weather (snow of example). Too many people think they can drive normally in the snow and the awd will take care of things, which it does not. It will get you unstuck in snow possibly, it doesnt do much of anything when cornering or braking under those conditions.
11-30-2005, 03:54 PM
#55
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"forgiving" means soft squishy and crappy. Rain tires are "forgiving" because they have TONS of slip available and make lots of noise way before total loss of traction. The stickier the tires, the stiffer the suspension, the faster the breakaway at the limit. That is the compromise you pay for the higher traction limit.
"forgiving" = slow as ***.
The fastest way around a track is with about a 5% slip angle in corners, which is much easier to control in a RWD car than a FWD or AWD car.
If you want a nice comfy idiot proof ride get the rx-8 or mustang.. If you want a car that requires skill and rewards that skill with blistering lap times.. get the Z.
Just like any RWD porsche.. all very difficult to drive, but put in the right hands, can out handle about any car on the road.
"Loose is Fast"
"forgiving" = slow as ***.
The fastest way around a track is with about a 5% slip angle in corners, which is much easier to control in a RWD car than a FWD or AWD car.
If you want a nice comfy idiot proof ride get the rx-8 or mustang.. If you want a car that requires skill and rewards that skill with blistering lap times.. get the Z.
Just like any RWD porsche.. all very difficult to drive, but put in the right hands, can out handle about any car on the road.
"Loose is Fast"
Last edited by sykikchimp; 11-30-2005 at 04:01 PM.
11-30-2005, 05:15 PM
#57
Originally Posted by tonystark
“…The tight suspension helps the car attack corners. And thanks to the 18-inch wheels and tires this sport coupe has grip to spare. The Nissan Z is a blast to drive at the limit but unlike the Mustang, the Nissan Z is less forgiving. You get the clear sense that if the Z lets go at speed it will not be pretty. The Mustang is easier to drive hard and hanging the tail out is cause for shouts of "Hell yeah!" rather than "Uh oh."…”
“…As capable as it is on the track, however, finding the Z's limits on the street requires even more finesse — and guts. Moderate-speed maneuvers barely dig into its formidable grip, while higher-speed corners put you right up against its limits without much of a safety net on the other side. There's stability control on hand to help out, but it's hardly the kind of assistance you want to rely on. Whereas the RX-8 feels forgiving and light on its feet, the 350Z is unyielding and heavy. It doesn't delicately pick its way through turns — it steamrolls right through them…”
“…Unlike the Z that hammers its way through bends, the RX-8 glides through them in a manner that's far less intimidating. Its moderate body roll gives you a better sense of how hard the car is working compared to the ultrastiff 350Z, and when the grip does finally run out, it does so in a more progressive and controllable fashion…”
“…As capable as it is on the track, however, finding the Z's limits on the street requires even more finesse — and guts. Moderate-speed maneuvers barely dig into its formidable grip, while higher-speed corners put you right up against its limits without much of a safety net on the other side. There's stability control on hand to help out, but it's hardly the kind of assistance you want to rely on. Whereas the RX-8 feels forgiving and light on its feet, the 350Z is unyielding and heavy. It doesn't delicately pick its way through turns — it steamrolls right through them…”
“…Unlike the Z that hammers its way through bends, the RX-8 glides through them in a manner that's far less intimidating. Its moderate body roll gives you a better sense of how hard the car is working compared to the ultrastiff 350Z, and when the grip does finally run out, it does so in a more progressive and controllable fashion…”
Originally Posted by tonystark
“…The new Mustang is light-years ahead of the previous versions and is simply better than the Mazda RX-8 and Nissan 350Z….”
11-30-2005, 06:07 PM
#58
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Don't believe everything you read in car magazines!! Good gravy... most of that crap must be taken with a huge grain of salt. People who write that stuff are expressing their opinions and they always have an agenda. Hell, the car manufacturer-du-jour probably paid for the puff piece with advertising money and may have provided the writing as well!
That said, I don't know if AWD is any benefit or not, but if Nissan thinks they can sell it, they probably will, whether or not it fits some abstract "Z heritage."
I don't ascribe to the mentality that says, "[insert fancy new feature here] is not part of the Z heritage!" or "It won't be a Z anymore if they add [fancy new feature]!" Frankly, I just don't get that logic.
The Z car evolves. If it were meant to stay the same, it would still have a 2.4L inline 6. Technology changes, the market changes, and the Z changes. Adding twin-turbos and all-wheel-steering (Z32) was probably a bigger stretch than AWD. Someday, we'll probably get a Flux capacitor and nuclear drive!
...and that's just my opinion!
That said, I don't know if AWD is any benefit or not, but if Nissan thinks they can sell it, they probably will, whether or not it fits some abstract "Z heritage."
I don't ascribe to the mentality that says, "[insert fancy new feature here] is not part of the Z heritage!" or "It won't be a Z anymore if they add [fancy new feature]!" Frankly, I just don't get that logic.
The Z car evolves. If it were meant to stay the same, it would still have a 2.4L inline 6. Technology changes, the market changes, and the Z changes. Adding twin-turbos and all-wheel-steering (Z32) was probably a bigger stretch than AWD. Someday, we'll probably get a Flux capacitor and nuclear drive!
...and that's just my opinion!
11-30-2005, 07:47 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by sykikchimp
...Just like any RWD porsche.. all very difficult to drive, but put in the right hands, can out handle about any car on the road....
I like my Z alot but putting Z and Porsche in the same sentence might get you shot in Germany. Brickyard Rat has a point, there a just somethings that a Z can't have if the price is going to be "reasonable". Too bad that an AWD option maybe on of those things.