Can Moderators Chill On Deleting Posts?
07-10-2002, 08:40 AM
#21
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Originally posted by Scafremon
The straw that broke the camels back was just a straw. Without knowing the history, it's probably not a good example to raise in support of your opening statement.
You've got me curious iMR2, as I honestly didn't think the mods were overstepping their boundaries. And to tell them to Chill, and suck-it-up, I think they deserve a bit more explanation.
If you are new here, and don't have much to support your claim, some people might assume your intentions with this thread were only to start some type of argument. I'm going to assume you do an excellent job of moderating the spyderchat forum. Assume ours here do to, unless you have information otherwise.
Thank you!
The straw that broke the camels back was just a straw. Without knowing the history, it's probably not a good example to raise in support of your opening statement.
You've got me curious iMR2, as I honestly didn't think the mods were overstepping their boundaries. And to tell them to Chill, and suck-it-up, I think they deserve a bit more explanation.
If you are new here, and don't have much to support your claim, some people might assume your intentions with this thread were only to start some type of argument. I'm going to assume you do an excellent job of moderating the spyderchat forum. Assume ours here do to, unless you have information otherwise.
Thank you!
Originally posted by Zbarrister BTW...iMR2, a mod from a Spyder board, on a 350z board? Spying on the enemy? Or simply jealous? HAHAHAHA!!
Last edited by iMR2; 07-10-2002 at 08:53 AM.
07-10-2002, 08:51 AM
#22
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I'm in the same boat as scafremon, the Z brought me to message boards, so I'm new to all this. I'd say that <i>if</i> they are a little overzealous it's because of the things that go on at zcar.com, which I think is the reason this board was started. Knowing where to draw the line is a difficult thing, you need to let people have their opinions, but you also have to let them know that they can't do whatever the heck they want. I'm happy so far, there hasn't been a deletion yet that I've cared enough about to take note of.
07-10-2002, 08:54 AM
#23
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Originally posted by iMR2
I don't think i need to know the history to notice a post missing. I gave the title of the thread and the member who posted it, isn't that claim sufficient? That's all I have and was by chance I happened to remember it. It was my own observation since frequenting the board.
I don't think i need to know the history to notice a post missing. I gave the title of the thread and the member who posted it, isn't that claim sufficient? That's all I have and was by chance I happened to remember it. It was my own observation since frequenting the board.
I don't think it's sufficient to start a thread asking the moderators to Chill out and suck-it-up.
If there have been other similiar instances, then I could see a more agressive post. And there very well could be others, and I wouldn't expect you to remember them on-the-fly. That's why I included a suggesstion in my previous post (saving deleted threads), so that arguments that the mods are supressing too much can be substantiated.
I'm just trying to assist both you and mods.
07-10-2002, 09:08 AM
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Sorry, I am with iMR2 on this one. I can understand stepping in once the name name calling starts, but otherwise I think you really start to have that country club snobbery atmosphere that alienates many people and keeps them from speaking at all. Otherwise, what the hell's the point of a discussion forum?? If you don't like a particular user than don't waste your time reading a thread started by that user!! Common sense is pretty amazing huh?
I remember on another board a link was posted that contained some nudity. It was posted in the General Discussion forum where it was explicitly stated that the first ammendment rules and that adult content may be encountered. Keep in mind this was just a link and not even the actual picture!! There was a warning that nudity would be encountered if the link was clicked on. Well, a mod removed the link. Then another user writes how happy they were because what if they were at work and had clicked on it, they might have been fired. Well, if you are so stupid that you ignore 3 warnings and are looking at a car board at work (probably shouldn't even be doing that) and then click the link anyway and get caught, YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET!
Let me make my own decisions on who's threads I will and won't read. Don't make them for me.
I remember on another board a link was posted that contained some nudity. It was posted in the General Discussion forum where it was explicitly stated that the first ammendment rules and that adult content may be encountered. Keep in mind this was just a link and not even the actual picture!! There was a warning that nudity would be encountered if the link was clicked on. Well, a mod removed the link. Then another user writes how happy they were because what if they were at work and had clicked on it, they might have been fired. Well, if you are so stupid that you ignore 3 warnings and are looking at a car board at work (probably shouldn't even be doing that) and then click the link anyway and get caught, YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET!
Let me make my own decisions on who's threads I will and won't read. Don't make them for me.
07-10-2002, 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by Scafremon
If there have been other similiar instances, then I could see a more agressive post. And there very well could be others, and I wouldn't expect you to remember them on-the-fly.
If there have been other similiar instances, then I could see a more agressive post. And there very well could be others, and I wouldn't expect you to remember them on-the-fly.
Maybe people missed this issue the first time around...
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....&threadid=1436
07-10-2002, 09:28 AM
#26
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I think the moderators have been doing a fine job on this board (gee, now maybe they won't delete THIS post....j/k
). But seriously, Jeff15 has been given every chance in this community. His MO was to start a thread . . . with some negative (although not outlandish) post, and then whenever he wanted to reply, he would start a new thread. I once counted 5 active threads all started by him, on the first page of threads....3 of which were his whining about tire sizes. I think this is an excellant community and I have learned a lot of useful things here...BUT once a member has proven to be a "bad apple" over and over again, I think he should be kicked out of the community and his "with holding [sic] thread should be deleted.
If anyone thinks their free speech rights are violated, zcar.com doesn't delete anything and you should enjoy the free-for-all over there.
). But seriously, Jeff15 has been given every chance in this community. His MO was to start a thread . . . with some negative (although not outlandish) post, and then whenever he wanted to reply, he would start a new thread. I once counted 5 active threads all started by him, on the first page of threads....3 of which were his whining about tire sizes. I think this is an excellant community and I have learned a lot of useful things here...BUT once a member has proven to be a "bad apple" over and over again, I think he should be kicked out of the community and his "with holding [sic] thread should be deleted. If anyone thinks their free speech rights are violated, zcar.com doesn't delete anything and you should enjoy the free-for-all over there.
07-10-2002, 10:09 AM
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I'm with Scaf on this one. I think most of us escaped Zcar to avoid all the NOISE from useless posts.
I don't think the editing here is excessive at all. I think many of us have an urge to post inflammatory remarks on a subject we are passionate about, the problem is the message gets lost in the delivery.
The editing I have seen has restored the message without corrupting the content.
$0.02
I don't think the editing here is excessive at all. I think many of us have an urge to post inflammatory remarks on a subject we are passionate about, the problem is the message gets lost in the delivery.
The editing I have seen has restored the message without corrupting the content.
$0.02
07-10-2002, 10:22 AM
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Well, my guess is here is the banned member:
http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/u...;f=11;t=001005
Funny thing is the guy doesn't even mention my350z by name and expresses it was just his opinion. I think that shows a hell of a lot more class than banning the guy!! It makes this place look bad and elitist. So the guy was excited or had some concerns, big deal. I looked at some of the guys here with the higher post counts and in looking over their recent posts, most of the stuff was useless (IMHO)!! Does that mean they should all be banned or the posts deleted? Truth is there really is no new info right now and it seems like some people here are just whiney little you know what's. Some people are just discovering this place. They will settle down, let them explore. Maybe they never belonged to a carboard before. Maybe they would have eventually offered up some really valuable information that will now never be seen.
http://forums.freshalloy.com/forum/u...;f=11;t=001005
Funny thing is the guy doesn't even mention my350z by name and expresses it was just his opinion. I think that shows a hell of a lot more class than banning the guy!! It makes this place look bad and elitist. So the guy was excited or had some concerns, big deal. I looked at some of the guys here with the higher post counts and in looking over their recent posts, most of the stuff was useless (IMHO)!! Does that mean they should all be banned or the posts deleted? Truth is there really is no new info right now and it seems like some people here are just whiney little you know what's. Some people are just discovering this place. They will settle down, let them explore. Maybe they never belonged to a carboard before. Maybe they would have eventually offered up some really valuable information that will now never be seen.
Last edited by raceboy; 07-10-2002 at 10:26 AM.
07-10-2002, 10:32 AM
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Okay, here's the info on posts being deleted etc., then I'll get to what happened with Jeff15.
When someone is out of line or says something that I or other mods get complaints on, we edit the thread. We will usually, if not always edit the thread when someone starts getting racial or making sexist comments etc. We're not perfect and we do miss things but we try and keep this forum a pretty tight ship.
I cannot vouch for what other mods delete or edit, as I am not them but I know for myself, I don't delete a thread outright unless the person is really asking to be deleted.
If down the road though, after my three strike rule has been broken, I delete a user. In doing so, I clear their posts as well. If they started a thread and say that thread had 20 comments.... when I strike the user from the database, the thread dies as well. Thus, the 20 comments vanish and people start to think there is some conspiracy or whatever.
Jeff15 had a long history of posting things that would get remarks like "another useless thread" "use the search feature!" among others. I am all for people posting questions, but this guy would make a post, then after a day if it wasn't given the attention he thought it deserved, he'd create a new post using the same words/arguement etc. Trying to stir up things between the G35 Coupe vs. The 350Z being a prime example.
I as well as other mods PMed and emailed him asking him to not do this. He was given three seperate chances to not post things that had been covered time and time again (usually by him as well), and to be fair, he was given more like 5 chances. I turned a blind eye as often as I could to this guy.
He would post things in the geberal forum that were better suited for the off topic area and he basically ignored all the warnings. I removed him and with that, all his threads that were not serving any purpose.
He's not the first to go, and he most definately won't be the last. It's not like we ****-moderate and tell everyone "the way it is". We're pretty open and if you spend some time and look around, you'll see a lot of people get away with a great many things. I run this site with a three strike rule, and that's pretty much that.
There have been three people since we opened to hit the three strike area where they just weren't cluing in so I removed them. Out of near 1600 people, I accept that ratio and gladly pat myself on the back. We're not as bad as some might think, but we can't always make everyone happy now can we?
We'll ease up on moderating, when people give us a chance to. Until then though, our hands are tied. As a new idea though, to better understand things in the site, I will ask in future that if a thread is edited or removed, the user is emailed so we know why. I will also create a seperate forum for the mods where we can explain our actions to each other so if Nizl for example is wondering who did what and why, he'd get a PM or email from the mod explaining what happened and why, and then the mod will also tell us mods in the mod forum so we can better understand things as well.
Sound fair?
-j-
When someone is out of line or says something that I or other mods get complaints on, we edit the thread. We will usually, if not always edit the thread when someone starts getting racial or making sexist comments etc. We're not perfect and we do miss things but we try and keep this forum a pretty tight ship.
I cannot vouch for what other mods delete or edit, as I am not them but I know for myself, I don't delete a thread outright unless the person is really asking to be deleted.
If down the road though, after my three strike rule has been broken, I delete a user. In doing so, I clear their posts as well. If they started a thread and say that thread had 20 comments.... when I strike the user from the database, the thread dies as well. Thus, the 20 comments vanish and people start to think there is some conspiracy or whatever.
Jeff15 had a long history of posting things that would get remarks like "another useless thread" "use the search feature!" among others. I am all for people posting questions, but this guy would make a post, then after a day if it wasn't given the attention he thought it deserved, he'd create a new post using the same words/arguement etc. Trying to stir up things between the G35 Coupe vs. The 350Z being a prime example.
I as well as other mods PMed and emailed him asking him to not do this. He was given three seperate chances to not post things that had been covered time and time again (usually by him as well), and to be fair, he was given more like 5 chances. I turned a blind eye as often as I could to this guy.
He would post things in the geberal forum that were better suited for the off topic area and he basically ignored all the warnings. I removed him and with that, all his threads that were not serving any purpose.
He's not the first to go, and he most definately won't be the last. It's not like we ****-moderate and tell everyone "the way it is". We're pretty open and if you spend some time and look around, you'll see a lot of people get away with a great many things. I run this site with a three strike rule, and that's pretty much that.
There have been three people since we opened to hit the three strike area where they just weren't cluing in so I removed them. Out of near 1600 people, I accept that ratio and gladly pat myself on the back. We're not as bad as some might think, but we can't always make everyone happy now can we?
We'll ease up on moderating, when people give us a chance to. Until then though, our hands are tied. As a new idea though, to better understand things in the site, I will ask in future that if a thread is edited or removed, the user is emailed so we know why. I will also create a seperate forum for the mods where we can explain our actions to each other so if Nizl for example is wondering who did what and why, he'd get a PM or email from the mod explaining what happened and why, and then the mod will also tell us mods in the mod forum so we can better understand things as well.
Sound fair?
-j-
07-10-2002, 04:35 PM
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From the Rockey Horror Picture Show "It was a mercy killing"
I agree with J. But as long as we are allowed to voice our opinions even if they are not 100% pro-Z I think we will be OK.
My only suggestion is it might be a good idea to start another catigory for the existing posts called The Killing Floor (or something clever) and put the deleted threads here. That way if no one wants to be bothered by them they don't have to see them, but they will still exist.
I agree with J. But as long as we are allowed to voice our opinions even if they are not 100% pro-Z I think we will be OK.
My only suggestion is it might be a good idea to start another catigory for the existing posts called The Killing Floor (or something clever) and put the deleted threads here. That way if no one wants to be bothered by them they don't have to see them, but they will still exist.
07-10-2002, 05:23 PM
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Yippie!
Imr2. Jmanz did our little z community a large favor. I want to have fun and get good information on this board. That has been the case since this was started. Jeff15 is a Chimp! I get enough of that at work. We don't need that here. Thanks again Jmanz
07-10-2002, 06:58 PM
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You mod's are doing great, dont change a thing!
iMR2, I think Sca was just trying to point out that there was already a history of problems with Jeff15, and that it might have been better of you to simple ask what happened instead of jumping to conclusions about over zealous moderators.
JmanZ makes some great points. A banning ratio of 3 out of 1600 is perfectly acceptable.
iMR2, I think Sca was just trying to point out that there was already a history of problems with Jeff15, and that it might have been better of you to simple ask what happened instead of jumping to conclusions about over zealous moderators.
JmanZ makes some great points. A banning ratio of 3 out of 1600 is perfectly acceptable.
07-10-2002, 07:14 PM
#34
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Originally posted by JmanZ
I will also create a seperate forum for the mods where we can explain our actions to each other so if Nizl for example is wondering who did what and why, he'd get a PM or email from the mod explaining what happened and why, and then the mod will also tell us mods in the mod forum so we can better understand things as well.
I will also create a seperate forum for the mods where we can explain our actions to each other so if Nizl for example is wondering who did what and why, he'd get a PM or email from the mod explaining what happened and why, and then the mod will also tell us mods in the mod forum so we can better understand things as well.
But secondly, there was a ton of stuff in the post, completely uninflammatory, and rather than just edit it and change "****" to "f***", the entire post was just deleted. Which I think was a bit excessive.
Finally, I just want to say this. I'd hate to see this forum ruled by the whiny few, like our country currently is. I am definitely agreeable to deleting racist, sexist, or inflammatory posts. Otherwise, though, I would hope sometimes the moderators say "I disagree, that post is fine" to overly nitpicky or uptight complaints. Maybe you're doing this already, I have no idea.
Thanks.
07-10-2002, 08:12 PM
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This is a very nice site. It is very Informative, with alot of peoples different ideas. I really enjoy my350z.com and hope it does stay the way it is. But, and when you say but Dr. Laura says you erase everything that you have previously said. The balance between a clean site and one in which you can "flame", i hate that term, is a fine line . Once they start everyone is doing it and thus wrecks this nice 350z site. I think everyone is doing a very good job. Im also sure it does take alot of thier time. Time which we get to enjoy. Our time is free , and i for one enjoy it.
Thanks 350z.com people.
Keep up the good work!!!!!!!
Thanks 350z.com people.
Keep up the good work!!!!!!!
07-10-2002, 08:17 PM
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nizl, I have to totally agree with you and raceboy and a couple others on this issue. I used to post quite a bit on this forum, but after getting aggressively edited by TBCZ and another mod, and then seeing it happen to others, I decided it wasn't worth my time anymore. I still think this is THE best place for info on the Z and a fantastic site and amazing job done by Jay, but the mods are a little too Gestapo for my liking. In fact, Jay has cussed in a fair amount of his own posts, and I don't see him getting edited 
Anyway, I think the mods should ease up a bit, or this wonderful forum will die eventually. I hope not, but something needs to change for sure. Ok, maybe a couple of you get to read this before it gets deleted too
Jay- not a knock on you man, you do a great job! Thanks for the site!
Anyway, I think the mods should ease up a bit, or this wonderful forum will die eventually. I hope not, but something needs to change for sure. Ok, maybe a couple of you get to read this before it gets deleted too
Jay- not a knock on you man, you do a great job! Thanks for the site!
Last edited by infinite z; 07-10-2002 at 08:58 PM.
07-10-2002, 08:36 PM
#39
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WELL YOU CANT PLEASE ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME. I think the mods are doing a comendable job given their very unenvyable position. This form does allow different opions via the moderators (some members do really allow it by jumping all over these).
07-10-2002, 08:48 PM
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Let me say that using the word "Gestapo" to make your point is extremely out of line. Either you were purposely trying to use an inflammatory rhetoric or you simply do not know your history!
Comparing what you call "aggressive editing" to the utter atrocities inflicted by the Geheime Staatspolizei (German for Secret Police, abbreviated to Gestapo) is simply out of line.
If you think that this is "THE best place for info on the Z" then why not simply discuss your issues without the inflammatory rhetoric. Instead you choose a word to describe a situation which is in no way, shape or form comparable.
As much as you may like to think it is, this board is not and has never been a democracy. I have no complaints, however other persons do, fair enough all our perceptions are different.
However, make your arguments without using images and concepts you clearly do not understand. It's simply bad form and does not help those reading your posts understand your side of things.
The old adage seems to run true: Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it!
Comparing what you call "aggressive editing" to the utter atrocities inflicted by the Geheime Staatspolizei (German for Secret Police, abbreviated to Gestapo) is simply out of line.
If you think that this is "THE best place for info on the Z" then why not simply discuss your issues without the inflammatory rhetoric. Instead you choose a word to describe a situation which is in no way, shape or form comparable.
As much as you may like to think it is, this board is not and has never been a democracy. I have no complaints, however other persons do, fair enough all our perceptions are different.
However, make your arguments without using images and concepts you clearly do not understand. It's simply bad form and does not help those reading your posts understand your side of things.
The old adage seems to run true: Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it!