looks like JUN hates us, bummer.
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
see, thats just the thing..everyone has a different definition of a sports car. I wouldnt rely on Consumer Reports to tell me anything more than what refridgerator I should buy.
a 650i is a sports car? It's got 2 doors... but thats about it
An SC430 - huh?
A Jag - they have not made a sports car since the 60's
an XLR?
That's what JUN was saying - by their definition, the Z is not a sports car, but rather, is sporty. However, it has the making of a sports car lurking inside with the right parts
a 650i is a sports car? It's got 2 doors... but thats about it
An SC430 - huh?
A Jag - they have not made a sports car since the 60's
an XLR?
That's what JUN was saying - by their definition, the Z is not a sports car, but rather, is sporty. However, it has the making of a sports car lurking inside with the right parts
I especially like this part of his post:
"But most 350Z owners will never see this, as they don't read a magazine dedicated to turbocharged/forced induction engines."
Please. I've been reading Turbo since before they became an import mag. Besides, half of the articles in Turbo have nothing to do with turbos. They aren't called "Turbo & High-Tech Performance" for no reason.
"But most 350Z owners will never see this, as they don't read a magazine dedicated to turbocharged/forced induction engines."
Please. I've been reading Turbo since before they became an import mag. Besides, half of the articles in Turbo have nothing to do with turbos. They aren't called "Turbo & High-Tech Performance" for no reason.
Originally Posted by gringott
What is JUN's precise definition? Or do they have one?
I just read this line from that other post:
But most 350Z owners will never see this, as they don't read a magazine dedicated to turbocharged/forced induction engines.
I do read that magazine (and buy it), and am about to stop, as I find less and less information on pratical turbo information, and more vomit from manufacturers, and glossy pics of someone's modded car without any real depth or information. It is becoming another waste of money. Today I was at the PX and instead of buying the magazines like I normally do, I looked at them there. One article on aerodynamics I spent a few minutes on, the rest I saw no reason to purchase. This included Import Tuner, Sport Compact, Turbo. Until or if these magazines start actually doing some research and printing better interviews than that JUN article, I will not buy them. I don't need soft core **** and/or worship articles with the founder's granddaughter and some dude who will not even tell the writer what HP they made on the JUN Stream Z. What a waste of paper and ink.
The author was inpressed that JUN developed a one-off wheel suspension system for the Stream - and said try to find a company in the USA to do that. I bet the companies would line up at the price JUN charges. JUN founder's granddaughter (London-educated) AND Mr Koyama state that there are problems with the 350Z chassis, basically "too high". Did Ms. Tanaka learn that in London???? They say the problem is the fact that the 350Z was designed during a time period that Nissan was in bad shape.
Then the article talks about the real market for JUN. WRX, EVO, SR20, REB26. Hmmmm. No 350Z. Then the JUN dude states he wants to build a 4WD 350z- his motivation is the fact that the 350Z is not a popular car in Japan. What??????????? Something lost in the translation from the London eductated granddaughter perhaps?? Mr. Koyama is also a bit skeptical about what the new Skyline will hold. Whatever that means.
Basically, they don't make any money off the Z, so it sucks. I looked on my list of products I have purchased for my Z, and none are JUN. I looked at my future wish list, and JUN products are not on it. So who gives a sheet what that old man thinks.
I just read this line from that other post:
But most 350Z owners will never see this, as they don't read a magazine dedicated to turbocharged/forced induction engines.
I do read that magazine (and buy it), and am about to stop, as I find less and less information on pratical turbo information, and more vomit from manufacturers, and glossy pics of someone's modded car without any real depth or information. It is becoming another waste of money. Today I was at the PX and instead of buying the magazines like I normally do, I looked at them there. One article on aerodynamics I spent a few minutes on, the rest I saw no reason to purchase. This included Import Tuner, Sport Compact, Turbo. Until or if these magazines start actually doing some research and printing better interviews than that JUN article, I will not buy them. I don't need soft core **** and/or worship articles with the founder's granddaughter and some dude who will not even tell the writer what HP they made on the JUN Stream Z. What a waste of paper and ink.
The author was inpressed that JUN developed a one-off wheel suspension system for the Stream - and said try to find a company in the USA to do that. I bet the companies would line up at the price JUN charges. JUN founder's granddaughter (London-educated) AND Mr Koyama state that there are problems with the 350Z chassis, basically "too high". Did Ms. Tanaka learn that in London???? They say the problem is the fact that the 350Z was designed during a time period that Nissan was in bad shape.
Then the article talks about the real market for JUN. WRX, EVO, SR20, REB26. Hmmmm. No 350Z. Then the JUN dude states he wants to build a 4WD 350z- his motivation is the fact that the 350Z is not a popular car in Japan. What??????????? Something lost in the translation from the London eductated granddaughter perhaps?? Mr. Koyama is also a bit skeptical about what the new Skyline will hold. Whatever that means.
Basically, they don't make any money off the Z, so it sucks. I looked on my list of products I have purchased for my Z, and none are JUN. I looked at my future wish list, and JUN products are not on it. So who gives a sheet what that old man thinks.
Great post Patrick.
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Originally Posted by Built2shredZ
Who the hell is Jun????
Obviously he's not big here in America...
Obviously he's not big here in America...
They build all out cars that perform very well
They are a harcore tuning company ---- there Super Lemon EVO held/holds the record at TaKsuba (sp) circuit last I heard which is something all the other tuners dream of
Anybody that is really into modifying their Japanese car has heard of/seen/used JUN products ---- They built a 9 Sec Silvia in the late 90's when most people here didnt take the 240 seriously if at all --- to this day how many US 240's have gone 9's?
I think many owners forget that the cost cutting NIssan did to bring the Z to market was a huge compromise ---- it could have been lighter but they had to use what they had in their parts bin
When we get a Z thats meant to be its own car (Z34?) and not use parts from another car it may be a much more focused car then the heavy GT car it is now to most people
Its not that it cant perform but it takes more work than a few other cars JUN tunes is all
I read the same thing and I understand what he meant --- I'll still mod and race my Z at the grass roots level though
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Originally Posted by gringott
According to JUN, the problem is "too high". Very technical, and not in my definition of a sports car.
Springs and shocks only do so much --- eventually the stock geometry will play a role in the character of the car --- in this case the center of gravity is too high because of the stock geometry --- changing the length of the arms, pivot points etc... would be alot of work to get it "lower"
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From: Los Flores...Mostly...
Originally Posted by Built2shredZ
This is what I don't understand, you say a Miata is a sports car but a 350z is only a "sporty" car, even tho the 350z beats the miata in handling, speed and IMO looks....
To me personaly I think there are several levels of sports car, at the top you have your exotic sports car Ferrari's, Lambo's and some models of Porsche and at the other end you have your Miata's and 350z's with vette's, vipers and porsches in the middle.... To me there all sports cars just different level of sports cars..
My personal defination of a sports car is 2 doors, 2 seats and RWD, anything with a back seat is considered a GT, anything with 4 doors is considered a sports sedan
To me personaly I think there are several levels of sports car, at the top you have your exotic sports car Ferrari's, Lambo's and some models of Porsche and at the other end you have your Miata's and 350z's with vette's, vipers and porsches in the middle.... To me there all sports cars just different level of sports cars..
My personal defination of a sports car is 2 doors, 2 seats and RWD, anything with a back seat is considered a GT, anything with 4 doors is considered a sports sedan
.and i might catch flak for this but in terms of all those super exotics: do i really need your crazy styling, insane paint, and scissor doors to go fast? 240Z with an rb swap and updated suspension would put many an exotics to shame. and thats not to say that styling isn't an integral part of a sports car, the 240 is still hot as ever actually...(and I couldn't imagine a company trying to sell of a sports car with styling like an azteck...but I've been proven wrong before).
and now, back to the topic.
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I Won't argue that the Z compromised on weight because of costs, but you could argue that the Miata compromised on its engine in order to keep the costs down, so would that disqualify the miata as a sports car?
I think when you talk about lower end sports car your going to have some compromises in order to keep the price down... You could go a far as Chevy using its parts bin to keep the cost of the vette down, the vette engine is used in other cars in order to offset the vette's cost, this could be considered a compromise.... although far fetch one... but I think you see what im getting at... you can find fault with any sports car...
I think when you talk about lower end sports car your going to have some compromises in order to keep the price down... You could go a far as Chevy using its parts bin to keep the cost of the vette down, the vette engine is used in other cars in order to offset the vette's cost, this could be considered a compromise.... although far fetch one... but I think you see what im getting at... you can find fault with any sports car...
Last edited by Built2shredZ; Sep 4, 2006 at 12:51 PM.
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it is his opinion Built2Shred - nothing more. The Z would be a sports car BUT for it's light weight. That is, what he feels, puts it more in the GT level of car. It is not an insult or anything of the sort, mearly an opinion about the cars classification.
i personally believe that jun is being biased in a sense that there specialty aka money makers are they evos sti etc. The Zs are high hp na cars that require a different buyer then those when coming to modified. There market is limited becasue there small when it comes to distribution. Companies like top secret , esprit etc have a more complete understanding of Frs to me and give respect where respect is do unbiasdly.
and lets not forget the g35 or v35 or 350gt was designed after the Z33 platform made longer and extended and softened based on the Z33 platform. The engine was a french engine code used first in france.....but still the Z is preety unique in its unibody design just heavy becasue of its components . Ans luxurys.
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the Miata, I think, fits the classic definition of the sports car. Cut in the same mold as, say, a MG, or an Alfa. Now, these may not be cars that appeal to you on any level, but they defined what the sports car was. Lightweight, affordable, well balanced. The Z has all of the typical sports car qualities going for it...except the weight.
I agree, you can find fault with any car. At it's price point, the Z is a fantastic car for sure.
I won't conjecture as to what JUN meant by "too high". But I also won't rely on Turbo Magazine to even print what JUN said accurately either, as I've seen first hand that their level of technical accuracy is weak, at best (as seems to be a common trend with ALL of the import magazines in this country).
I agree, you can find fault with any car. At it's price point, the Z is a fantastic car for sure.
I won't conjecture as to what JUN meant by "too high". But I also won't rely on Turbo Magazine to even print what JUN said accurately either, as I've seen first hand that their level of technical accuracy is weak, at best (as seems to be a common trend with ALL of the import magazines in this country).
"But most 350Z owners will never see this, as they don't read a magazine dedicated to turbocharged/forced induction engines."
I hate to say it, but this guy is right.
For every modding 350z enthusiast, there are like a hundred Joe Blows who bought the car just because it looked sporty.
I'm willing to bet the 60 year old soccer mom who was flying by me in her Z roadster and sipping on a Starbucks latte this morning, knows shiet about force induction.
I hate to say it, but this guy is right.
For every modding 350z enthusiast, there are like a hundred Joe Blows who bought the car just because it looked sporty.
I'm willing to bet the 60 year old soccer mom who was flying by me in her Z roadster and sipping on a Starbucks latte this morning, knows shiet about force induction.
Originally Posted by 35oZephyR
"But most 350Z owners will never see this, as they don't read a magazine dedicated to turbocharged/forced induction engines."
I hate to say it, but this guy is right.
For every modding 350z enthusiast, there are like a hundred Joe Blows who bought the car just because it looked sporty.
I'm willing to bet the 60 year old soccer mom who was flying by me in her Z roadster and sipping on a Starbucks latte this morning, knows shiet about force induction.
I hate to say it, but this guy is right.
For every modding 350z enthusiast, there are like a hundred Joe Blows who bought the car just because it looked sporty.
I'm willing to bet the 60 year old soccer mom who was flying by me in her Z roadster and sipping on a Starbucks latte this morning, knows shiet about force induction.
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Originally Posted by Built2shredZ
I Won't argue that the Z compromised on weight because of costs, but you could argue that the Miata compromised on its engine in order to keep the costs down, so would that disqualify the miata as a sports car?
I think when you talk about lower end sports car your going to have some compromises in order to keep the price down... You could go a far as Chevy using its parts bin to keep the cost of the vette down, the vette engine is used in other cars in order to offset the vette's cost, this could be considered a compromise.... although far fetch one... but I think you see what im getting at... you can find fault with any sports car...
I think when you talk about lower end sports car your going to have some compromises in order to keep the price down... You could go a far as Chevy using its parts bin to keep the cost of the vette down, the vette engine is used in other cars in order to offset the vette's cost, this could be considered a compromise.... although far fetch one... but I think you see what im getting at... you can find fault with any sports car...
The Vette motor wasnt a hand me down and neither were its suspension components
The hand me down G35 parts/geometry mean the Z has compromises in the handling dept --- since a sports car is primarily about handling any comprmise in that dept is going to take away from it ---- especially if its a big heavy GT car like a G35
The Z still handles great --- just not as great as it could with a no compromise geometry setup used on the GT series cars in racing
But we all already know that and have made due
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Originally Posted by 35oZephyR
"But most 350Z owners will never see this, as they don't read a magazine dedicated to turbocharged/forced induction engines."
I hate to say it, but this guy is right.
For every modding 350z enthusiast, there are like a hundred Joe Blows who bought the car just because it looked sporty.
I'm willing to bet the 60 year old soccer mom who was flying by me in her Z roadster and sipping on a Starbucks latte this morning, knows shiet about force induction.
I hate to say it, but this guy is right.
For every modding 350z enthusiast, there are like a hundred Joe Blows who bought the car just because it looked sporty.
I'm willing to bet the 60 year old soccer mom who was flying by me in her Z roadster and sipping on a Starbucks latte this morning, knows shiet about force induction.
Most people dont even know what a "turbo" does let alone what they look like
Most = 50.000001% and I would say MOST Z owners barely know what a cylinder is let alone anything having to do with racing/engines/turbos etc...
I am surprised everyone is taking this so badly.... People in Japan have been saying the 350z is not a true sports car for years now and I agree. It doesn't mean it's a bad car... The 350z was made for the American market, which is why it has that "muscle car" feel to it IMO. It doesn't mean the car is not tunable... Look at what Top Secret is doing, or Signal Auto. They've had great success with the Z33 plateform. Anyways, I think everyone shouldn't let one article get to them. There will always be haters.
Jason
Jason
Originally Posted by Category5
My spare for 2005 weighs 32lbs?? Also, what is the weight difference between your stock wheel/tire and your new wheel/tire? Because, like you, I believe weight-reduction is the #1 perfomance mod. If I can save around 50lbs, I might get new wheels.
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Eventually everything is going to be shared platforms in order to cut costs, BMW and Mercedes are already heading in that direction...
Just matter of time before the Miata is sharing parts with other mazda's and fords... When this happen then there will be no low costs sports by the defination of what most everyone thinks a sports car is..
1) Must have its only platform
2) Must be lightweight
3) Good Handling
4) Descent Power
5) RWD / AWD ???
6) Two Seats
As far as handling and power goes that seems to be subjective as to how much a sports car should have in order for it to be a sports car, but it must have the first two requirements to even be considered... So im guessing this is the basic requirements of a sports car???
BTW, what Jun says doesnt bother me, Im just trying to figure out what the defination of a sports car actually is...
Just matter of time before the Miata is sharing parts with other mazda's and fords... When this happen then there will be no low costs sports by the defination of what most everyone thinks a sports car is..
1) Must have its only platform
2) Must be lightweight
3) Good Handling
4) Descent Power
5) RWD / AWD ???
6) Two Seats
As far as handling and power goes that seems to be subjective as to how much a sports car should have in order for it to be a sports car, but it must have the first two requirements to even be considered... So im guessing this is the basic requirements of a sports car???
BTW, what Jun says doesnt bother me, Im just trying to figure out what the defination of a sports car actually is...