What is Grey Market?
03-09-2007, 07:01 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by PurelySwift
Great thread, but now maybe we should get down the distinctions of who those authorized distributors are. Often they can be found on the manufacturer's website to indicate whom the contact is for the US market in the case of Japanese companies. I'll get the list going with what I know off the top of my head.
Nismo - Nissan Dealers Only
Rays Wheels - Mackin Industries
Project U Brakes - Mackin Industries
SSR Wheels (Speed Star Racing) - Tire Rack
Cusco Products - Bozz Performance
Racing Hard Wheels - Dazz Motorsports
This is not meant to discredit great shops that are active on these boards, such as Gruppe-S, but simply clear up the facts of the matter.
Nismo - Nissan Dealers Only
Rays Wheels - Mackin Industries
Project U Brakes - Mackin Industries
SSR Wheels (Speed Star Racing) - Tire Rack
Cusco Products - Bozz Performance
Racing Hard Wheels - Dazz Motorsports
This is not meant to discredit great shops that are active on these boards, such as Gruppe-S, but simply clear up the facts of the matter.
The whole grey market thing is a hot topic and goes through cycles in this industry. We've been around now for 10 years and I've seen it as a hot button here and there.
The real question is why do people do it? Is it to maximize profit? Sometimes. The real reason I've seen (or at least the reason we've done it on some items) is because the official channels cannot deliver the goods in a timely manner. What good is having a distributor when that distributor either maintains insanely low inventory levels (thus doing their dealers and the retail customers a disservice), or, when orders are placed, they do not arrive in a timely, reliable fashion? When that happens, the guys who CAN get it by other means, do. Examples of firms that were "official" and now defuct are long and numerous.
I don't think many shops go grey market out of spite...many times the reasons are economic (ie higher margins), and many times, it's because it's the least aggrivating way to go about obtaining the goods for the customer.
I know I hate bringing in things direct from Japan...I wish every Japanese firm had their own stocking warehouses here in the US. But, there are some products you simply cannot get outside of Japan, and, others that you cannot get in a reasonable time period without going direct to Japan.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 03-09-2007 at 07:15 AM.
03-09-2007, 09:34 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by PurelySwift
This is not meant to discredit great shops that are active on these boards, such as Gruppe-S, but simply clear up the facts of the matter.
I'm sure mackin, work wheels and many vendors would be happy to chime in on this......
In addition....for all those who say "grey market benefits us".....you are wrong...when will a vendor tell you it's grey market?!?
you're purchasing a product under false pretenses and if something fails...well i hope u saved more than that $200 to get it replaced!
Last edited by NoahzBurnt; 03-09-2007 at 09:40 AM.
03-09-2007, 12:09 PM
#44
Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
Woah, big misunderstanding there. These are not "replicas" or "knockoffs". That is trademark infringement / dilution and covered under US trademark law (and is completely illegal). This is the importation of genuine Japanese products just by companies that are not supposed to be importing it.
For example all NHTSA approved R32, R33, and R34 Skyline GTR's in the United States are "grey market." They are real Nissan cars, just have not had the permission of Nissan USA to import.
It's a big difference!
Gary
Gruppe-S
For example all NHTSA approved R32, R33, and R34 Skyline GTR's in the United States are "grey market." They are real Nissan cars, just have not had the permission of Nissan USA to import.
It's a big difference!
Gary
Gruppe-S
03-09-2007, 12:31 PM
#45
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Maybe im stupid as hell but i dont understand greymarket.
Ok if some one gets new wheels and its not a official vendor but its actualy a legit wheel and they are selling it less, how did this grey market person get the wheel in the first place?
Ok if some one gets new wheels and its not a official vendor but its actualy a legit wheel and they are selling it less, how did this grey market person get the wheel in the first place?
03-09-2007, 01:03 PM
#46
There so many ways to look at this and there are so many answers you could end up with.
A good example of what you guys are talking about could be seen in what is happening with West Covina Nissan. In Southern California there are so many other dealerships and venues you can go with when obtaining service or parts for your car. Why would most of the people on the forums prefer West Covina Nissan perhaps over Performance Nissan (just popped up in my head)? The feedback that we see on these forums and personal experiences lead us into using their services. Grey market or not I prefer to do business with people who have something to offer me and benefit my goals. I am not asking to much as a consumer am I ? (I could be wrong)
I think it is right for the consumer to be skeptical with vendors and the way they put a mark up on the items. I understand that they must, but even with only a little bit of evidence we can almost assume that in general most vendors put an enormous amount and mark up the items (authorized vendors). I am more than willing to pay mark up for the items if I feel that it is justified until then they will not receive my business. As a vendor it is their responsibility to win over my business. It's hard to do ,but that is the only way a business will survive and thrive in a market.
There are excellent points being made coming from both ends of the spectrum and this thread is and will be a good read for everyone if we keep it civil and input our thoughts on the matter.
A good example of what you guys are talking about could be seen in what is happening with West Covina Nissan. In Southern California there are so many other dealerships and venues you can go with when obtaining service or parts for your car. Why would most of the people on the forums prefer West Covina Nissan perhaps over Performance Nissan (just popped up in my head)? The feedback that we see on these forums and personal experiences lead us into using their services. Grey market or not I prefer to do business with people who have something to offer me and benefit my goals. I am not asking to much as a consumer am I ? (I could be wrong)
I think it is right for the consumer to be skeptical with vendors and the way they put a mark up on the items. I understand that they must, but even with only a little bit of evidence we can almost assume that in general most vendors put an enormous amount and mark up the items (authorized vendors). I am more than willing to pay mark up for the items if I feel that it is justified until then they will not receive my business. As a vendor it is their responsibility to win over my business. It's hard to do ,but that is the only way a business will survive and thrive in a market.
There are excellent points being made coming from both ends of the spectrum and this thread is and will be a good read for everyone if we keep it civil and input our thoughts on the matter.
03-09-2007, 01:04 PM
#47
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they buy them in japan and import them themselves...bypassing the network of USA establish vending.....
for example: let's say if you want a dog in the US you need to buy one thru "puppy city" or a pet shop that gets them from there....puppy city guarantees their dogs to be free of defects and disease for life......if you buy a dog from other than a verified puppy city pooch you have a grey market mutt....
the reason grey market hurts the consumer...let's say u buy a dog in the US from a pet store.....being it's a dog u assume it has the same warranty as any dog but this store sells them much cheaper....should the dog have a disease or defect you are on your own all because you wanted to save a few $$$....the vet bill is always going to cost more in the end
from a business stand point....dealers/shops spend thousands of dollars to establish thier place in a network of vendors....some companys can require minimum monthly commitments as high as let's say $40K a month....vendors who cannot afford to honor these commitments have 2 options....by from an authorized wholesaler or buy grey market....getting grey market products costs that vendor much less and let's face it....every one is in business to make money. By bypassing the vendor network dealers/shops that conduct "honest" business get screwed....and can no longer afford to provide products to shops and ultimately to you....once these dealers dry up the price of grey market will also inflate due to lack of competition...so all you are doing by saving a few $'s now is forcing future consumers to spend more and get a product that does not carry any warranties.
for example: let's say if you want a dog in the US you need to buy one thru "puppy city" or a pet shop that gets them from there....puppy city guarantees their dogs to be free of defects and disease for life......if you buy a dog from other than a verified puppy city pooch you have a grey market mutt....
the reason grey market hurts the consumer...let's say u buy a dog in the US from a pet store.....being it's a dog u assume it has the same warranty as any dog but this store sells them much cheaper....should the dog have a disease or defect you are on your own all because you wanted to save a few $$$....the vet bill is always going to cost more in the end
from a business stand point....dealers/shops spend thousands of dollars to establish thier place in a network of vendors....some companys can require minimum monthly commitments as high as let's say $40K a month....vendors who cannot afford to honor these commitments have 2 options....by from an authorized wholesaler or buy grey market....getting grey market products costs that vendor much less and let's face it....every one is in business to make money. By bypassing the vendor network dealers/shops that conduct "honest" business get screwed....and can no longer afford to provide products to shops and ultimately to you....once these dealers dry up the price of grey market will also inflate due to lack of competition...so all you are doing by saving a few $'s now is forcing future consumers to spend more and get a product that does not carry any warranties.
Last edited by NoahzBurnt; 03-09-2007 at 01:12 PM.
03-09-2007, 01:06 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by NoahzBurnt
they buy them in japan and import them themselves...bypassing the network of USA establish vending.....
for example: let's say if you want a dog in the US you need to buy one thru "puppy city" or a pet shop that gets them from there....puppy city guarantees their dogs to be free of defects and disease for life......if you buy a dog from someone other than puppy city you have a grey market mutt....
the reason grey market hurts the consumer is...let's say u buy a dog in the US from a pet store.....being it's a dog u assume it has the same warranty as any dog but this store sells them much cheaper....should the dog have a disease or defect you are on your own all because you wanted to save a few $$$....the vet bill is always going to cost more in the end
for example: let's say if you want a dog in the US you need to buy one thru "puppy city" or a pet shop that gets them from there....puppy city guarantees their dogs to be free of defects and disease for life......if you buy a dog from someone other than puppy city you have a grey market mutt....
the reason grey market hurts the consumer is...let's say u buy a dog in the US from a pet store.....being it's a dog u assume it has the same warranty as any dog but this store sells them much cheaper....should the dog have a disease or defect you are on your own all because you wanted to save a few $$$....the vet bill is always going to cost more in the end
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 03-09-2007 at 01:46 PM.
03-09-2007, 01:11 PM
#49
I didn't think I made it clear enough.
ex. Oil change/Service
West Covina Nissan (authorized dealer) (marked up price)
Performance Nissan (authorized dealer) (marked up price)
Other performance shop/garage (gray market cheaper)
I would still go to the one with the marked up price if I felt it was justified even though it is much less to do it otherwise. That is when I pay the mark up. I try to do business with vendors who prove to me that they are worth using.
ex. Oil change/Service
West Covina Nissan (authorized dealer) (marked up price)
Performance Nissan (authorized dealer) (marked up price)
Other performance shop/garage (gray market cheaper)
I would still go to the one with the marked up price if I felt it was justified even though it is much less to do it otherwise. That is when I pay the mark up. I try to do business with vendors who prove to me that they are worth using.
03-09-2007, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by IzYou
I didn't think I made it clear enough.
ex. Oil change/Service
West Covina Nissan (authorized dealer) (marked up price)
Performance Nissan (authorized dealer) (marked up price)
Other performance shop/garage (gray market cheaper)
I would still go to the one with the marked up price if I felt it was justified even though it is much less to do it otherwise. That is when I pay the mark up. I try to do business with vendors who prove to me that they are worth using.
ex. Oil change/Service
West Covina Nissan (authorized dealer) (marked up price)
Performance Nissan (authorized dealer) (marked up price)
Other performance shop/garage (gray market cheaper)
I would still go to the one with the marked up price if I felt it was justified even though it is much less to do it otherwise. That is when I pay the mark up. I try to do business with vendors who prove to me that they are worth using.
grey market is strictly a supply side issue - it is obtaining goods through means OTHER than the official channel.
03-09-2007, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
your example has nothing to do with grey market...it has to do with choosing one vendor vs another
grey market is strictly a supply side issue - it is obtaining goods through means OTHER than the official channel.
grey market is strictly a supply side issue - it is obtaining goods through means OTHER than the official channel.
03-10-2007, 12:23 AM
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good point Performance Nissan & A Spec...
as for Z1 -- if you need something quick I would personally ask the official Dist. to check to is what they have and how long to get them in or if they offer air freight the item, Most company do offer air freight or rush order if you are willing to pay for the air fright.
as for Z1 -- if you need something quick I would personally ask the official Dist. to check to is what they have and how long to get them in or if they offer air freight the item, Most company do offer air freight or rush order if you are willing to pay for the air fright.
03-10-2007, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Gruppe-S
As for the warranty issue, while it may be a problem on a larger scale, chain stores like Costco, Walmart, Kmart, Fry's, etc. will usually take the warranty burden on themselves.
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03-10-2007, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Volk350Z
well my friend work at purchasing for Costco and from what he told me all their product they get from China is still through the company but reason for lower cost is from private lable, exp. Sony TV Costco will ask sony to make a lower version of their tv and sell it to them at a lower cost so they can sell it to the consumer. If you look at the model or serial # of the product does not match 100% of the one Sony sell. So really these company didn't grey market the products but got them in as a "private lable".
03-10-2007, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Volk350Z
well my friend work at purchasing for Costco and from what he told me all their product they get from China is still through the company but reason for lower cost is from private lable, exp. Sony TV Costco will ask sony to make a lower version of their tv and sell it to them at a lower cost so they can sell it to the consumer. If you look at the model or serial # of the product does not match 100% of the one Sony sell. So really these company didn't grey market the products but got them in as a "private lable".
This holds true with many large companys such as Walmart/Sams. For example, Many of their Michelin tires are private labels sold at Walmart/Sams only. Same thing for Sears and Discount.
03-11-2007, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Volk350Z
well my friend work at purchasing for Costco and from what he told me all their product they get from China is still through the company but reason for lower cost is from private lable, exp. Sony TV Costco will ask sony to make a lower version of their tv and sell it to them at a lower cost so they can sell it to the consumer. If you look at the model or serial # of the product does not match 100% of the one Sony sell. So really these company didn't grey market the products but got them in as a "private lable".
