617G

iTrader: (6)

Wouldn't that in turn make is semi-grey market? Garage sales are held locally and only those local are able to attend and actually take advantage of the discount. If they in turn buy up a lot of part for way below retail and then go and distribute it to the general public at slightly below market value, then that ruins it for everyone else. Therefore, Greddy would be contributing to the grey market dillema. I am surprised garage sales like that do not come with an agreement that items purchased are NOT for resale.

NoahzBurnt

iTrader: (10)

no it wouldn't...greddy offeres all sorts of prices depending on volume....i have taken advantage of this in the past....also their pricing increases...so if a vendor ordered a kit a while back and paid less than they should now....they can obviously sell it for less yet still make a profit....

GReddy's garage sales are usually offered to their vendors when they have an overstock of items...not like a real garage sale

cubu

iTrader: (21)

lol, Andy you linked this thread in your sig... im not saying this thread should be hush hush or anything but to parade it on your sig is a bit much, im sure you could have linked a more usefull thread for the my350z community

617G

iTrader: (6)

Sorry, I was thinking of the upcoming Tein garage sale...I'm not too familiar with garage sales like that so I was using that as a reference.

Nonetheless, there is a REASON why the best price is given via PM. If you choose to sell something for a low price, that's fine, but if you ADVERTISE at that low price, then you're driving down the market and taking sales away from other people.

NoahzBurnt

iTrader: (10)

no prob dude...now that my car will be gone until june I have nothing better to do than debunk innocent people on internet forums....

god my life suxxxxxass

Gruppe-S

iTrader: (66)

YUP!! Same principle. Greddy doesn't want market prices being driven down in other states - BUT they still need to clear out their inventory. So they only make these special prices available to the local guys. Now what if an internet vendor were go there and buy all the parts at the low low prices and offer them for sale on the internet?

Would Greddy and it's dealer network be pissed?

You bet.

Would the consumers benefit?

You bet.

Now look at it as if it's a big garage sale in Japan because the Japanese aftermarket industry isn't so hot right now.

Just one way to look at the issue.

Cheers,

Gary
Gruppe-S

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Our price is not below market value at all...and ours comes from Greddy USA. That being said, go on ebay, and you'll find places that sell it for less than we do. That's probably why we've barely sold any over the years. Who's to say the other kit came from Greddy USA? Or who's to say what they bought it for in the first place, or what their motovation is to sell it?

Remember market price and list price are 2 totally different things.

Andy@Performance

iTrader: (92)

Like I said in my original post; I'm not dictating forum members to buy what from who. Everyone here works hard for their money and they should spend it where they choose to. The reason why I created this thread is because I think that the public should know what grey marketing does to our culture and in the long run, it will only hurt us. By us, I'm refering to the consumer's as well as the vendor's. People should take this thread with a grain of salt and make an educated decision on their purchases. If you choose to purchase grey market for whatever reason, than that choice is solely yours. I am very passionate about what I do and this lifestyle we are all into. I only want to see it progress in a positive manner. Me having a presence on this forum compelled me to speak out about what I strongly believe in, it's not to take advantage of anyone but what it boils down to is what is morally right and wrong, not what is legal or illegal. I only want to make a positive contribution to this scene and if that means I need to speak my voice about the issue, than I will. If this issue wasn't as severe as it is, it wouldn't even be a topic to discuss.

At the end of the day, it is ultimately the end user's choice on who they want to purchase from. I only hope that I have made some sort of impact that will make the end user's make the decision that will contribute something positive to our culture.

cubu

iTrader: (21)

i respect your belief and passions, but people have different morals and values, you seem to forget that thus unintentionally insult others, i don't see anyone bashing you for what you do or believe in, you speak as if your words are the Truth, who's to say what is morally right and wrong? who's judge if it is negative or positive? but telling some of us that we are morally wrong and have a negative impact on the culture is something else, some heavy words there

Andy@Performance

iTrader: (92)

I can understand your perception and view. Who am I to say what is right and what is wrong? This thread was never intended to insult anyone's moral values, I think values can be very opinionated just like the topic of politics and religion. But when it comes to the subject of grey market, there is a clear difference in what is right and what is wrong. I think it is difficult for the consumer to see from the outside how the market affects us as a whole. If every single enthusiast out there were to only purchase grey marketed products, what do you think the car culture would be like? Would it be what it is today?

I'm a car enthusiast just like anyone else on here; I anxiously and impatiently wait for parts that I order, I expect service from my business, and I love to share the things that I do on my car on this forum. When it comes down to it, why would anyone purchase grey marketed products? To save a couple bucks? To get my parts a little faster? (Which is not always the case, sometimes it may take longer than going through authorized channels). Credit should be due to where it is deserved.

Again, like I said in my original post, this thread may seem strongly biased and opinionated, but there is a viscious cycle that takes a toll on this culture when grey marketed vendors and products are supported.

typerilliard

iTrader: (1)

+1

Gruppe-S

iTrader: (66)

From a purely economic point of view no one is really hurt from grey marketing. Rather grey marketing makes the market more efficient by eliminating the unnatural barriers or segmentation of the global market created by the manufacturer and its subsidiaries at the expense of profit maximization. In other words grey market moves product cost to a more efficient price point.

IMO the only time grey marketing can be economically inefficient is when the grey marketer has some sort of unfair advantage - for example using the US Airforce's airplanes to import product at a subsidized rate (or free). When transportation and other costs remain equal for both, it is the consumer that suffers economic inefficiences when grey marketing is not allowed to occur and profit maximization / market segmentation occurs....

Gary
Gruppe-S

Volk350Z

iTrader: (65)

well I know one thing for sure grey market don't do any R&D or special edition.. I really don't think even gruppe s can get LE37T or the "real" time attack from Rays Japan, cause those were maid solely for the North Amercia Market only For Mackin.

cubu

iTrader: (21)

when was this 'culture' yours to dictate what happens or what good or bad for it? maybe some of us want change with lower prices and more JDM parts, its all of the sudden negative when you are losing out or not as much a part of selling stuff to the consumer, the fact of the matter is that some else will replace you, things change, business changes, cultures change, if you are not a go getter, one that makes things happen when you face adversity, you shouldn't be in business, why isn't grey market illegal if it is the Antichrist? you ever think that some of us don't care or want to be a part of the 'culture' you want to save? i mean the culture that is putting money in your pocket, now why would we go out of our way and spend our money on that? will the 'culture' die and be reduced to a bunch of hoodlums and thugs if grey market doesn't end? should we all stop selling and using items not meant for the US market, btw don't you guys sell JDM nismo parts? or is that a out of sight out of mind thing, cause i still think i have the PM from you telling me that you can get those parts just that you can't post it on your site? where does the hypocrisy end?

hmmm, we might as well take it a step further and just stop buying imported stuff, and drive Mexican built American cars and other products to support our country for the common good, but I don't see picketers and demonstrations parading in front of your shop for selling nothing but japanese products, where 's the loyalty to your own country man? you are pouring US citizens' money into the lap of the Japanese for a cut of it. of course i don't feel this way but the point is others haven't gone to the extreme you have because you don't agree with their point of view, its called being naive, selfish, and narrow minded

Gruppe-S is a sponsor and vendor on this forums just like you are, he paid his fees just like you, and isn't doing anything illegal, but to parade this thread and whining about things to hurt his business is low, you think that just because we always give you guys props and praise(i will no more) that your word is gold? you seem to try to take advantage of that fact for your own personal gain at the expense of others, i don't see him hating on you in any way shape or form, and he is a better man than both of us for not mentioning the obvious

btw how much are JDM nismo sides anyway? pm me a price shipped to 75006 plz

cubu

iTrader: (21)

maybe i should start a new thread 'What is Gey Market?' and link it to this thread...

rocks

iTrader: (1)

So this post is basically a plea not to cut out the middle man so i can save money?

cubu

iTrader: (21)

thats what it boils down to

redlude97

iTrader: (11)

Not exactly, becuase there are still middlemen and grey marketers go around them. If there were no middlemen left, most companies would become more inconsistent in having inventory and pricing because the manufacturers would have to ship and distribute to many more locations, and when this is occuring overseas, the problem becomes compounded. The point is, middlemen make the market more stable in both pricing and availability because the manufacturer only has to ship to a select few, and deal with issues directly from the distributers, not individual resellers. Ideally, there would be no need for middlemen if manufacturers were superefficient and had the manpower to deal with shipping to a larger group of companies, but in turn, that cost for the extra manpower and infrastucture at the manufacterer would just lead to higher costs past along to all the distributers, and then prices would just rise again. The bottom line is manufacturers want to make a certain amount of profit on an item, and if you shift the burden of distribution and dealing with more companies, they'll just increase wholesale costs to offset their costs, so in the end the prices will be the same. So people who want lower prices should actually be encouraging the use of middlemen, so that some companies can bypass them for a lower price, not to get rid of all of them in general

cubu

iTrader: (21)

there will always be middlemen, just ones that deal with the other middlemen from japan

Andy@Performance

iTrader: (92)

Respectfully noted. And I can understand your point of view and it is completely valid but lets get one thing straight; I never said anything about Gruppe-S. Whether you think this thread was directed to Gruppe-S or not, I never mentioned their name so at this point, you are just putting words in my mouth. Gruppe-S isn't the only sponsor on here that sells or is able to obtain grey market products.

I think you're reading a little bit too much into what I am saying. I am not forcing anyone to do anything. Is this not a public forum where members can speak their mind? My vision of this culture may not be the same as some people but being on both ends of the fence, I can see how grey marketing can hurt our lifestyle as a whole. If you read through this thread, you will see that MOST, maybe not all, but most of the sponsors will agree with me. If you do not agree with me than thats fine. I'm not putting a gun to your head and forcing or dictating for you to agree with me and making you purchase your products from authorized vendors. Where you want to spend your money is your business. You're entitled to your own opinion and I respect the fact that you feel strongly about this topic and you are speaking your mind about it. We may never come to an understanding about the topic at hand but at least the public can read how various people feel about grey marketing and that at least is a step towards finding a common ground. I don't expect this issue to be resolved over night. But at least a discussion is moving foward to something we can all agree on and the subject is being acknowledged.

Yes, we do sell JDM NISMO parts, we even advertise them. JDM clear tail lights, JDM kick plates, JDM emblems, etc. I never said that I wanted to "save" this culture. I believe my exact words were that I wanted to make a positive contribution. I'm not quite sure what you are refering to when you say, "out of sight, out of mind" when we advertise JDM parts. We don't have anything to hide. I get tons of PM's daily, requesting prices and information. I answer any questions for any forum member to the best of my abilities, even if its not a sale or a potential sale. I've even gotten PM's from members asking me for advise on career choices in this industry and I have always been honest and answered them. I've gotten a lot of PM's asking me about authentic JDM NISMO side skirts and that is probably what you PM'ed me about as well and like I tell all the members who PM me requesting this, I will tell you the same. We can no longer get JDM NISMO side skirts because it is not obtainable through NNA. Do I have resources that can get them directly from Japan and by pass NNA? Hell yes I do, but do I move foward and do it? No. That doesn't mean there isn't any alternatives, in turn I'll offer the U.S Spec NISMO sides that are manufactured in the U.S by NNA.

If we(I) am not a go-getter, I do not think Performance Nissan would be in business. We are who we are today because we are go-getters. If you blame us for not obtaining products in an unethical way, than that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I will not apologize for being ethical and going through proper channels to obtain products. If a customer is wanting to purchase wheels and does not want to wait, I'm not going to by pass the official U.S distributor to make the sale. I will be honest and straight foward about the lead time of the product and price. I can also offer EMS shipping to have it sooner but that obviously will bump the price. If the customer chooses to go to a vendor that is grey marketing the wheels than that is his choice. No harm, no foul. Bottom line is, we will bend over backwards to make sure our custoners are satisfied with their purchase. If we can match a competitors price that is legitimate, there is no reason why we wouldn't. Like I said before, credit should be due to where it is deserved. Where does grey marketing leave for all the U.S distributors who spend the money to market and promote the product, do they not deserve to get any credit?

I can't understand why my loyalty to this country is being questioned or why I have to justify myself but here is the answer to that question. If Performance Nissan were to only sell grey marketed products, in no way is it helping or benefiting the economy or this culture. It would only benefit us, the customer, and the Japanese dealer that we purchased the product from. In no way does that transaction contribute to any other company that supports the product in the U.S market, I.E, official U.S distributors, publications, marketing companies, graphic designers, photographers, import models, events, shipping companies, so on and so forth. By going through authorized channels, yes, there is a mark up that we have to pay but it is all in benefits to help this lifestyle grow in a positive way. A single transaction through an authorized dealer contributes to support numerous different businesses in this country. Can you start seeing the bigger picture yet? At this point in time, if grey marketers were stronger than authorized dealers, this industry would not be as strong as it is today, its simple economics. If everyone was grey marketing, there would be no need for U.S distributors which in turn means that there budget for marketing and advertising would eventually be depleted which will affect marketing companies, publications, events, manufacturer's, so on and so forth.

How you want to spend your money is entirely up to you. Just remember that to every action there is a re-action.