AT vs MT
Originally Posted by Aggro_Al
First of all, let me say that I was wrong about the size of the FD. It is stock 3.3/3.5 AT/MT.
Second, I'm not to familiar with the actual advantages or disadvantages of swapping the FD so my answer may not be what you are looking for or may not be even right. So, someone who has actually done the swap could give you a better answer.
I've heard that quite a few MTs have swapped their 3.5s for the 3.9s with good success. So, I'm assuming that swapping the 3.3 for the 3.5 would be similar as long as it doesn't put engine out of it's optimal powerband.
In general, going from a 3.3 to a 3.5 would increase the torque multiplication at the rear. The 3.5 should give you more torque and more whp at the same RPM as the 3.3 at the expense of velocity and gas mileage and it might even make the shift changes a little bit jerky. If you're not concerned about having the absolute highest speed or the best gas mileage or living with shifting that's not quite as smooth then a 3.5 swap would probably be pretty good swap if you want more torque and whp and faster acceleration. It would probably put you on par in the high RPMs with the stock MTs. One of the other things you have to be concerned about though is having too much torque multiplication this could make the some of the gears unusable in it's current ratios and actually make the car less than optimal because the engine is out of it's powerband. In this case, you would want to decrease torque multiplication as some people have found out when they went FI.
One of the other things you can look at if all you want is an increase in acceleration without sacrificing too much in gas mileage and still keeping the top end would be a high-stall torque converter. It's probably the best bang for buck on the 5AT that you can get short of getting FI. A mild increase can probably put your car in the very low 5s or the high 4s and still keep it streetable. A good high-stall converter and install cost would be less than $1k and it's probably closer to $800 and a couple hours of work to do the whole thing.
Second, I'm not to familiar with the actual advantages or disadvantages of swapping the FD so my answer may not be what you are looking for or may not be even right. So, someone who has actually done the swap could give you a better answer.
I've heard that quite a few MTs have swapped their 3.5s for the 3.9s with good success. So, I'm assuming that swapping the 3.3 for the 3.5 would be similar as long as it doesn't put engine out of it's optimal powerband.
In general, going from a 3.3 to a 3.5 would increase the torque multiplication at the rear. The 3.5 should give you more torque and more whp at the same RPM as the 3.3 at the expense of velocity and gas mileage and it might even make the shift changes a little bit jerky. If you're not concerned about having the absolute highest speed or the best gas mileage or living with shifting that's not quite as smooth then a 3.5 swap would probably be pretty good swap if you want more torque and whp and faster acceleration. It would probably put you on par in the high RPMs with the stock MTs. One of the other things you have to be concerned about though is having too much torque multiplication this could make the some of the gears unusable in it's current ratios and actually make the car less than optimal because the engine is out of it's powerband. In this case, you would want to decrease torque multiplication as some people have found out when they went FI.
One of the other things you can look at if all you want is an increase in acceleration without sacrificing too much in gas mileage and still keeping the top end would be a high-stall torque converter. It's probably the best bang for buck on the 5AT that you can get short of getting FI. A mild increase can probably put your car in the very low 5s or the high 4s and still keep it streetable. A good high-stall converter and install cost would be less than $1k and it's probably closer to $800 and a couple hours of work to do the whole thing.
Going from a 3.3 rear to a 3.5 rear isnt going to get you any more whp or trq. It may get you in your power band sooner....but you will not get more .
So give it a rest , you dont even own a Z any more , so go over with the Volvo crowd and thrill them with your knowledge on automatic trannies.....PLEASE !!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by booger
Aggro-al .......Please stop your mis informing every one that will listen to you . I have a AT5 , Ive had a 3.5 rear end , I have a EdgeRacing Trq converter , and a SGP valve body . My tranny is night and day from a stock AT5 . And in NO WAY does the stock 5 shift fast and firm . You could hit the shift lever and wait for a full second before it even thought about shifting .
Going from a 3.3 rear to a 3.5 rear isnt going to get you any more whp or trq. It may get you in your power band sooner....but you will not get more .
So give it a rest , you dont even own a Z any more , so go over with the Volvo crowd and thrill them with your knowledge on automatic trannies.....PLEASE !!!!!!!!
Going from a 3.3 rear to a 3.5 rear isnt going to get you any more whp or trq. It may get you in your power band sooner....but you will not get more .
So give it a rest , you dont even own a Z any more , so go over with the Volvo crowd and thrill them with your knowledge on automatic trannies.....PLEASE !!!!!!!!
He's basically correct. I don't see it giving any whp or torque, but I see it giving much quicker acceleration \ staying in the powerband.
Basically, don't bash someone trying to answer other people's questions without even taking shots at you or other members. You have no reason to come at a member like this ... (PLEASE!!!!!)
But, good choice on your transmission mods. I might be going to the same company for valve body.
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From: Ohio
MT u can stay at the power band whenever the VVT kicks in... 5k-7k rpm? so the car will always have power whenever u step on the gas. much quicker response than to wait like 1 sec for the AT to downshift when u slam on gas.
with an AT it downshifts to the lowest gear. so if u play on the street or highway with turns and traffic... AT = lose cause they shift like chickens w/o a head.
tiptronic is for drag racing... if u plan on going to the drag strip like every week, well... i guess AT works best for u. why do you want to be a professional drag racer in a Z? u are going to lose to ALOT of people.
AT is also for people that drives like a grandma and cant multitask.
Z is for the drift, the slide, the control. that's where the Z excels, so why not get a stick?
with an AT it downshifts to the lowest gear. so if u play on the street or highway with turns and traffic... AT = lose cause they shift like chickens w/o a head.
tiptronic is for drag racing... if u plan on going to the drag strip like every week, well... i guess AT works best for u. why do you want to be a professional drag racer in a Z? u are going to lose to ALOT of people.
AT is also for people that drives like a grandma and cant multitask.
Z is for the drift, the slide, the control. that's where the Z excels, so why not get a stick?
Last edited by lilquazyvietboi; Apr 2, 2007 at 12:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by lilquazyvietboi
MT u can stay at the power band whenever the VVT kicks in... 5k-7k rpm? so the car will always have power whenever u step on the gas. much quicker response than to wait like 1 sec for the AT to downshift when u slam on gas.
with an AT it downshifts to the lowest gear. so if u play on the street or highway with turns and traffic... AT = lose cause they shift like chickens w/o a head.
tiptronic is for drag racing... if u plan on going to the drag strip like every week, well... i guess AT works best for u. why do you want to be a professional drag racer in a Z? u are going to lose to ALOT of people.
AT is also for people that drives like a grandma and cant multitask.
Z is for the drift, the slide, the control. that's where the Z excels, so why not get a stick?
with an AT it downshifts to the lowest gear. so if u play on the street or highway with turns and traffic... AT = lose cause they shift like chickens w/o a head.
tiptronic is for drag racing... if u plan on going to the drag strip like every week, well... i guess AT works best for u. why do you want to be a professional drag racer in a Z? u are going to lose to ALOT of people.
AT is also for people that drives like a grandma and cant multitask.
Z is for the drift, the slide, the control. that's where the Z excels, so why not get a stick?
You talk so much crap it is unbelievable!
The AT downshifts extremely quickly - there is no delay for me. And whats all the BS about not being able to keep it in the power band??? Have you heard of Tiptronic on the AT?? I can hold it in any gear I want.
Your grandma comments are funny coz actually my grandma drives a manual. You have been driving manual for a few months and you think you are sebastian loeb. Driving a manual is as easy as tieing your shoelace but I imagine you would find that hard so driving manual to you is like you are flying a spaceship. LOL
Originally Posted by furiousZ
If you don't like the advice, then don't take it. And, it does not take a whole second for the transmission to shift in tiptronic. When you do get a good shift in, it does kick you forwards without the valve body upgrade-- therefore it can be firm enough for the casual driver (in which I think he's trying to get across here ... )
He's basically correct. I don't see it giving any whp or torque, but I see it giving much quicker acceleration \ staying in the powerband.
Basically, don't bash someone trying to answer other people's questions without even taking shots at you or other members. You have no reason to come at a member like this ... (PLEASE!!!!!)
But, good choice on your transmission mods. I might be going to the same company for valve body.
He's basically correct. I don't see it giving any whp or torque, but I see it giving much quicker acceleration \ staying in the powerband.
Basically, don't bash someone trying to answer other people's questions without even taking shots at you or other members. You have no reason to come at a member like this ... (PLEASE!!!!!)
But, good choice on your transmission mods. I might be going to the same company for valve body.
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From: North East
Originally Posted by booger
If you like bad advice...go for it . And you said it...when you do get a good shift in......it shifts pretty good . ANd I wasnt even close to bashing him . Get over it......arent we all sensitive and emotional
I agree - nothing wrong with the AT and mine is stock. And I actually think the AT downshifts quicker than you can with the manual.
Question: Why do we almost never see FI (Forced Induction) Z's / G's with AT?
Answer: They do not hold up to HP gains nearly as well as MT.
Answer: They do not hold up to HP gains nearly as well as MT.
Last edited by gothchick; Apr 2, 2007 at 02:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by Black Duck
You talk so much crap it is unbelievable!
The AT downshifts extremely quickly - there is no delay for me. And whats all the BS about not being able to keep it in the power band??? Have you heard of Tiptronic on the AT?? I can hold it in any gear I want.
Your grandma comments are funny coz actually my grandma drives a manual. You have been driving manual for a few months and you think you are sebastian loeb. Driving a manual is as easy as tieing your shoelace but I imagine you would find that hard so driving manual to you is like you are flying a spaceship. LOL
The AT downshifts extremely quickly - there is no delay for me. And whats all the BS about not being able to keep it in the power band??? Have you heard of Tiptronic on the AT?? I can hold it in any gear I want.
Your grandma comments are funny coz actually my grandma drives a manual. You have been driving manual for a few months and you think you are sebastian loeb. Driving a manual is as easy as tieing your shoelace but I imagine you would find that hard so driving manual to you is like you are flying a spaceship. LOL
what tiptronic? push up and down? LOL... dont compare that to an actual clutch. i think i can shift from 5 to 2 alot faster than u can do with ur AT.
if ur AT can shift w/o delay... then u prolly have the slowest reaction on earth... cause ive driven ALOT of AT Z already. maybe that's why u think the AT is all that and stuff... the way u shift with an MT takes forever for you doesnt it? well... u made a good choice to buy ur AT then... gj
i am actually surprise u still HAVE a grandma, arnt you... 40 years old? i cant even believe she can drive at all right now
oh my, i talk so much "crap" dont start crying ok?
Last edited by lilquazyvietboi; Apr 2, 2007 at 01:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by lilquazyvietboi
hah, i wonder if ur head ever gets blowned by how hot your head can get... u get mad angry at little comments LOL. it is quite funny to see your reaction.
what tiptronic? push up and down? LOL... dont compare that to an actual clutch. i think i can shift from 5 to 2 alot faster than u can do with ur AT.
if ur AT can shift w/o delay... then u prolly have the slowest reaction on earth... cause ive driven ALOT of AT Z already. maybe that's why u think the AT is all that and stuff... the way u shift with an MT takes forever for you doesnt it? well... u made a good choice to buy ur AT then... gj
i am actually surprise u still HAVE a grandma, arnt you... 40 years old? i cant even believe she can drive at all right now
oh my, i talk so much "crap" dont start crying ok?
what tiptronic? push up and down? LOL... dont compare that to an actual clutch. i think i can shift from 5 to 2 alot faster than u can do with ur AT.
if ur AT can shift w/o delay... then u prolly have the slowest reaction on earth... cause ive driven ALOT of AT Z already. maybe that's why u think the AT is all that and stuff... the way u shift with an MT takes forever for you doesnt it? well... u made a good choice to buy ur AT then... gj
i am actually surprise u still HAVE a grandma, arnt you... 40 years old? i cant even believe she can drive at all right now
oh my, i talk so much "crap" dont start crying ok?
You have just discovered manual and how to shift.
Nice talking with you.....now run along to mom......
Last edited by Black Duck; Apr 2, 2007 at 01:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by booger
If you like bad advice...go for it . And you said it...when you do get a good shift in......it shifts pretty good . ANd I wasnt even close to bashing him . Get over it......arent we all sensitive and emotional
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Originally Posted by booger
Aggro-al .......Please stop your mis informing every one that will listen to you . I have a AT5 , Ive had a 3.5 rear end , I have a EdgeRacing Trq converter , and a SGP valve body . My tranny is night and day from a stock AT5 . And in NO WAY does the stock 5 shift fast and firm . You could hit the shift lever and wait for a full second before it even thought about shifting .
Going from a 3.3 rear to a 3.5 rear isnt going to get you any more whp or trq. It may get you in your power band sooner....but you will not get more .
So give it a rest , you dont even own a Z any more , so go over with the Volvo crowd and thrill them with your knowledge on automatic trannies.....PLEASE !!!!!!!!
Going from a 3.3 rear to a 3.5 rear isnt going to get you any more whp or trq. It may get you in your power band sooner....but you will not get more .
So give it a rest , you dont even own a Z any more , so go over with the Volvo crowd and thrill them with your knowledge on automatic trannies.....PLEASE !!!!!!!!
Great mods by the way.
If I'm wrong please show us how I'm wrong. I'm in no way perfect as pointed out by twinship and HPDP350Z. If I'm wrong I'll admit and learn from it. So please just tell us how I'm wrong and everybody benefits.
In your your previous post, you said that FD doesn't affect a dyno when it does.
Originally Posted by booger
FD's will make no difference in whp
Stop wasting your time typing out a bunch of useless info that has no bearing on the FACT that the AT5 HAS more drivetrain loss than the MT6
Stop wasting your time typing out a bunch of useless info that has no bearing on the FACT that the AT5 HAS more drivetrain loss than the MT6
AXLE :
Your axle (final drive) ratio, like your tire size, affects performance in every gear. Most people choose an axle ratio for the intended use of the car, which is OK as long as you are also looking at the rest of your equipment. Let's say you have two Z cars, and you want one for highway cruising, and the other for racing. No problem, just put a 5.33:1 differential in one, and a 2.08:1 in the other, right? Sure, it will point them in the general direction, but the 2.08 car will be a slug, and the 5.33:1 may be short on top speed. The key here is to match it to the tire sizes, transmission ratios and engine characteristics. The 5.33 will be fine in the race car if A) It's a shorter track with no long stretches or B) The engine can rev to 8-9000rpm. The 2.08 car will be OK if it makes a LOT of torque at LOW rpm (more like a big displacement V-8 than a V-6). With this in mind, you can "do the math" and see what axle/tire/transmission combination will give you what rpm's at what speeds.
Here's the full link from where I got that quote from.
http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/tech_gearing.htm
If anyone is so inclined, here's a section on Torque & Horsepower that is slightly more indepth.
http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/torquehp.htm
I'm a little confused. First you say the FD has no effect on torque & whp but now you are saying that a different FD gets you into the powerband sooner.
You are holding two opposite beliefs and you are accusing me of spreading misinformation.
Last edited by Aggro_Al; Apr 2, 2007 at 09:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by gothchick
Question: Why do we almost never see FI (Forced Induction) Z's / G's with AT?
Answer: They do not hold up to HP gains nearly as well as MT.
Answer: They do not hold up to HP gains nearly as well as MT.
Why do you ask a stupid question and answer it with your own stupid answer?
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From: Lafayette, LA
Originally Posted by IX R3VAN XI
My AT has, so far, beatin every MT off the line. Very few of those have beatin me, but when they did its always been when Ive hit 4th gear, when I hit 4th they were already ahead of me. & 5th gear automatic mode is like 6th gear manual. I love my AT, but I do have to admit that manuals are much more fun to drive, not to say that you cant have fun with AT's, just have to be creative lol
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From: Medford, OR
Originally Posted by shanki456
I currently drive a 2001 nissan maxima with an AT. I am just wondering, as far as performance, is there a huge difference in lets say 0-60 times with the 350z with the AT versus the MT? Let me knows thanks 
IMHO with a stock Z the stick shift can be quicker to 60, but the AT is more consistent. As horsepower increases, the efficiency advantage of MT decreases and the consistency advantages of AT prevail. With FI the problem is too much power on launch with MT OR AT, so that practice is the determining factor.
For the twisties I would take the MT. For stop and go traffic I would go with the AT.
