I'm ready to purchase a 350Z finally! I wanted an enthusiast, but my dealer can't locate one in the color i want (white or san marino). But they can locate both those colors in a base. The main reason i wanted a enthusiast was for the traction control, since it will be driven in the winter.

If i get a base i'll be adding LSD soon after the purchase.

So anyone drive a base model (with snow tires) in the winter?? Does the traction control really help?

Thanks for the help.

There also selling the car for 1% over invoice, so i dont think thats too bad??

 

Cant tell jack without the MSRP.

 

the MSRP on the san marino is 28,795, their selling for 27,185 before TTL.

 

My target price is $27,067.

 

Traction control is for the majority of people who drive, meaning wouldn't know what to do if the rear end started to come out. If that is you get traction control.

I'm not sure if some here think it gives you more traction because it does not. All it does is cut power, so if you have any sense of feel for your car you should be able to do this with your right foot.

Now I drove my 06 base home in the bad ice storm we had several weeks ago. I have all-seasons and it wasn't that bad. Would I do it again, knowing I another car that is FWD, prolly not. But I know I can get home safe if the weather ever turned bad.

You selection of tires is much more important than any electronic shenanigans.

 

Thats pretty much what i figured. As long as i get a good set of winter tires, i dont see why i would need traction control.

 

The MSRP seems high. The difference between MSRP and the price they are quoting looks correct though (i.e. around 1% over invoice). What options are included with this?

Are there any dealer installed options? If the MSRP only includes factory options, then 1% over invoice isn't a bad price. If the dealer has added some of his own "fluff" options, like undercoating, fabric protection, paint sealant, etc., then you may be paying too much. I'm not sure if these can be added to the invoice, so the dealer invoice price should be around $1900 lower than the factory-only MSRP.

Are there any additional fees (e.g. document fee, processing fee, etc.) which the dealer applies after the price is negotiated and when the paperwork is being filled out? This is something to look out for at the dealerships in my area; they all try to add $300 to $400 which is pre-printed on their sales form.

 

They didnt throw on any other document/dealer fees at all. They just told me the MSRP, i can't actually see the sticker as the cars not here..... But i doubt they'd lie because i will see it before i finish paying for the car.

 

+1. I've got all-seasons on my 06 base, and have gone through 3 icying events this winter. Since it's my DD I had no choice, but to drive it. No problems, whatsoever.

 

Yep, its all about the driver feeling control. I have the stock potenzas still and I driven in heavy rain storms and during our freeze we had here in Texas. No probelms. I have base BTW.

 

Keep in mine with the Base you also lose the benefit of cruise control, in case that's important to you.

 

There must be some factory installed options (i.e. floor mats, trunk mat, etc.). Since they don't have the car, at least the dealership hasn't tried to add any of their own "options"; most dealerships in my area will add these to the cars on their lots.

Maybe they don't do it in your area, but around here, dealerships don't mention the "processing fee" or "document fee" or something similar until the car price is being totaled in the finance office. The dealerships will try to add this as it is pre-printed on the form where they fill in the sales price, tag fees, taxes, etc. The finance person may also push real hard to sell service packages and extended warranties.

The San Marino Blue is an awsome color, especially in the bright sunlight.

 

"...But i doubt they'd lie because i will see it before i finish paying for the car.'

They will lie through their teeth. Have the bottom line on car, including all fees, before getting to finance office and let them know if they add one penny your gone.

Also best if you walk in with financing in hand. If they treat you well maybe give them a chance to match it.

By the way, Enthusiast is far better buy.

 

Well i have an 05 base and i live in TX. Last year we had an ice storm and i was driving on the highway at about 25 mph, just cruising along and then all of a sudden busted out into a spin, ended up completely doing a 720 on the highway, will never drive in snow/ice/sleet again.... lol

 

Warning:
"cruise control" = "lose crontrol" in snow and icy situations. Make sure cruise control is disengaged driving on slippery roads.

 

I think traction control senses & reacts faster than a human can sense and react. If the human's brain is working, it knows when to turn it off. But the brain can't turn it on if you don't have it. As always, I'm open to being corrected for the sense and reaction time if someone has that information.

 

I'm sure the computer is faster than the human, however how are you ever going to learn to get a feel for your car if the car is doing all the work? Supposedly you can turn off some of these features but are they really 100% off?

I'm assuming one buys a 350z is little more into sprited driving than say, someone buying a family vehicle. Take a performance driving class or at least during a some rain (save your tires) have some fun in a big EMPTY parking lot.

 

If you want the enthu, get it. There has to be one somewhere. If your dealer won't find it, go to one that will.

 

+1. If you really want an Enth, be patient and look for it. There are plenty out there.
As for ur concern about driving a Base in winter, it has been discussed several times. Like the more experienced drivers have already opined, traction control wud just 'assist' you from spinning or skidding. But it all comes down to ur driving skills + tires.

 

(NOTE: I may have lost the point here -- cost of various Z models vs. winter driving with TCS.)

You can safely drive a Z in the winter. My thoughts:

1. Of couse you must use snow tires, and you should install them on all 4 corners. Four snow tires help maintain the handling dynamics of the car, and you can stop faster on a slippery roadway.

2. It's better and less costly in the long run to buy snows mounted on winter wheels that you swap with your summer tires/summer wheels each season. You save the cost of remounting the tires, and winter wheels tend to get beat-up. 17" wheels are best for winter driving since you have a higher sidewall and consequently more sidewall flex which is better for winter driving. Just be sure that the overall diameter of the wheel/tire match the stock measurement. Tires with a less rigid sidewall, "rubber" that remains soft at low temperature, and a more narrow width are the best for winter driving.

3. IMO you can't do better than TCS, no matter how skilled and experienced a driver you are. My car has VDC (and TCS is a part of this feature, so I'll refer to TCS from here on). When driving in slippery conditions in varying conditions, I've discovered that (depending upon the circumstances) you may want to toggle TCS on/off. The concept of toggling TCS on/off is difficult to explain, but you learn when and why to do this with a little experience driving the car. With TCS on, you lose traction when your rear wheels begin to spin, but the car remains straight to the direction of your front wheels. With TCS off, you can "force" forward progress, but the rear of your car tends to move away from the direction your front wheels are pointing. VDC (the step beyond TCS, and something you were not asking about) helps if the rear-end of your car begins sliding away from the direction your front wheels are pointing. I've experienced this, and I can tell you that VDC works.

4. LSD is certainly a feature you want on your Z if you drive on snow and ice. But, LSD will not keep your car moving in a straight line in very slippery conditions. In fact, LSD can cause the rear-end to move more "side-to-side." This is especially true if you turn TCS off, which can cause more "kick" to either side under acceleration.

5. Of course, you drive differently in the summer than you do in the winter. In the summer, it is fun to apply power as you come out of a turn. Do this in the winter and you reduce traction on the rear wheels, increase oversteer, and you can get into trouble very quickly. The Z has a short wheelbase, and it will rotate very quickly if the rear tires lose traction. If the Z begins to rotate while you are applying power (and TCS is off), you will need to counter-steer quickly and skillfully.

If you are buying a Z that you want to run in snow and ice, you should have TCS and LSD. You can always turn TCS off. But, if you want/need TCS and your car doesn't have it; you cannot turn it on.

--Spike