1GR8350Z

iTrader: (1)

Very nice first post, though it only applies to the vast majority and not all.

This on the other hand is dumb as sh t. Yes, when you are weaving through traffic like an idiot this may be applicable. When you are following way too closely, also. Most cases where this "superior handling" can save you is when you are the one showing your a$$.

There will be that time when someone pulls out in front of you that having better brakes allows you to avoid the collision.

The dangers of high speeds and inexperienced drivers who many have no clue how to even use the "superior handling" far outweighs any advantage you are talking about. Your argument is pitiful.

Lol at your thinking that a SRT-4 falls into the category of "superior handling." I won't even call my Z's handling superior.

Cux350z

iTrader: (162)

wait a minute...when did they release the roadster....2004. You sure you want to go down this road?

hartsickdiscipl

Wow.. you're an idiot. Nice job of assuming a bunch of things. Here are some examples of what I was talking about:

-A deer or other animal unexpectedly runs out in front of you. Having great brakes and quick steering allows me to avoid the collision. This has happened several times since I got my license 7 years ago. And yes, I was able to utilize the vehicle's braking and handling capabilities, even as a new driver. It doesn't always take a rocket scientist or an experienced driver to know how to hit the brakes or swerve around something.

-Like you stated yourself- A driver makes an unexpected/unsafe move and pulls out in front of you, requiring you to make a quick, instinctive move to avoid an accident. Once again, this happened to me a few times, and I know I would've been in an accident if not for driving a car with SUPERIOR braking and handling.

-My SRT-4 had a stage 2 KW suspension, set up for road racing. Yes, it was a SUPERIOR-handling car, and pulled close to 1G on the skidpad with the right tires. Showing your ultimate ignorance once again. To say that the Z doesn't have superior handling to the vast majority of cars is ridiculous. It does.

My argument has always been that the vast majority of new drivers should not get expensive and/or fast cars. However, it should still be handled on a case-by-case basis, and always with parental involvement. There are some kids who "deserve" (relative to other kids) to have a nice car, and are capable of using the car's capabilities as a safety advantage. Whether or not you believe it, if 2 drivers are doing 60mph down a country road, one in a 350z, and the other in a 1996 Camry, the one in the Z has a far better chance to stop and/or avoid an obstacle in the road in time.

1GR8350Z

iTrader: (1)

Its not hard to come up with scenario's that will only come up rarely. You bring up deer. Since I have been driving (14 years) I have came across deer crossing the road maybe 10 times. Once I was in my Toyota Corolla and the braking was sufficient to not hit it. In areas where deer are seen frequently, you are an idiot if you are flying down country roads. I admitted that there are situations where you are correct, but if you look at the numbers on how many kids have totalled their sports cars being idiots versus the cases where superior handling has saved them I'm sure my point will be proven.

There are kids that grew up cart racing and what not that know how to handle a car better than most adults. I wonder what that percentage is.

I've never seen a country road where the speed limit is 60 so thanks for proving my point in this case the driver is showing out. If you were in a Camry would you be testing its limits on a winding country road. I wouldn't bother. In my Z, much more likely.

This wouldn't matter much to you since you are such the expert at getting out of tickets, right

Congrats on your Neon. I am thoroughly impressed.

Spork

iTrader: (6)

I bet you loved Sunday nights.

JEKL

iTrader: (24)

I have been driving 20 years and never once come across a deer.

hartsickdiscipl

It's fairly clear that you know very little about what's possible in places other than your small corner of the world. If you've ever lived in upstate/northern NY, you would know that deer crossing the road in front of you is nearly a weekly occurrence. Throw in the many twisty roads with nearly blind corners, and you've got a chance to test a car's limits without even trying. Also, in Texas, many of the back roads have a 70 mph speed limit. I don't care how careful you're being, if you drive enough, you will eventually run into some obstacles in the road. Things happen.

And if you were paying attention to the context of my other posts regarding getting out of tickets, I said that I only try to get out of tickets that I didn't deserve to get in the first place. Such as a speeding ticket that blatantly lied about how fast I was going. A complete fabrication. Or an "obstruction of view" ticket for having a necklace hanging from my rear view mirror. I brought the necklace into court and handed it to the judge, explaining that the officer felt this was an obstruction of view. He laughed and threw the ticket out. If you've never had these types of things happen to you, consider yourself lucky, but don't ridicule others who have had more dangerous/odd experiences.

I don't have the SRT-4, or "neon" as you insist on calling it.. even though if you put the car on a lift, you can see that it bears very little resemblance to a Neon, other than being FWD. That's like making fun of someone for having a "Lancer" when it's really an EVO. I guess you didn't keep up with SCCA racing results when the SRT-4 was in production, else you might have more respect for the skittle. They are very capable performance cars until they start falling apart like most Mopar products. That's why I have a Z now.

hartsickdiscipl

Then you're either very lucky, or just don't drive in areas with lots of deer. I drove home from New Mexico to Austin the other night and counted no less than 30 deer standing within 5 feet of the road within a 2 hour period. A few of them were in the road. Last night on my way home from the drag strip, I saw 5 or 6 deer within a few feet of the road. It all depends on where and when you drive. Take a trip through Upstate NY or the Texas hill country, and you will see alot of deer in and around the road. It's not just deer either. I clipped a porcupine in my SRT-4 after coming over the crest of a hill. It stuck a few quills in one of my tires, but there was no way in hell I could have avoided a direct collision in most cars.

1GR8350Z

iTrader: (1)

JEKL, you haven't ever been to New York , have you?

1GR8350Z

iTrader: (1)

No, I have never seen backroad with a 70mph speed limit.

Did I not say that in areas more densely populated with deer that one should be more careful. So if a deer runs out 20 feet in front of you doing 70 I don't care what kind of brakes you have. You are going to have a facked up car and will have to decide whether or not to eat your own roadkill.

You are using a cars superior handling to justify placing the keys to a sports car in a 17 year old's hands. If the handling was so helpful in preventing wreck amongst teens, then why are the stats so high?

I have driven a stock one. A guy offered it plus cash on top for my Z. I wanted to drive it so I entertained the offer. They are good handling cars. When you first mentioned it you said nothing about your beefed up suspension and, yes, I assumed it was stock or lightly modified. My Z handles better and my S2K handled better than either of them.

NyCSnEaK

iTrader: (5)

You guys wanna see deer on the road. Come to NJ and I can gurantee that you will have a close call with Bambi : (.

hartsickdiscipl

Many of the back roads in Texas have a 70 mph speed limit, which means that most cars on those roads are doing 70-75. You can either take my word for it, or look it up. Nobody is saying that in the in the real world most teens are going to drive a 300hp sports car "responsibly." That's obviously not the case. What I was saying is that if driven responsibly, a car with better handling, better brakes, and in some cases, better acceleration can be a safer car. Those are all safety features to me just as much as they are tools for having fun. I haven't always viewed them that way (like when I was 18), but now I do.

And yes, if a deer is 20 feet from you when it steps into the road, you're probably screwed. But if the deer is 20 yards from you, you will have an advantage in trying to avoid it in a car with sharper steering and better roadholding. I too have driven a stock SRT-4. In comparison to the one that I had, it handled terribly. A little suspension work and wider tires goes a long ways on those cars, as it does most.

FineWine

iTrader: (10)

The point is, you will be in less of those "emergency situations" if you weren't a an inexperienced tool who has no real idea of the cars capabilities nor their own as a driver. And having such a car at such an age teases you to push those limits in a car that actually can do enough to get you in trouble.

1GR8350Z

iTrader: (1)

A nice handling car can help you in the situations you are talking about, but definitely does not compare with the dangers associated with putting inexperienced drivers behind the wheel of a 300hp car. That all I'm saying

hartsickdiscipl

You don't have to tell me about bad young drivers. My first car was a 1996 Neon coupe. I used to get speeding tickets in that. Can you imagine what I would've done if I'd had a 350z back then? I would've been dead or in jail. I know that most young drivers have a tendency to get a little out of hand. However, I've never approved of punishing the whole class for some of the kids misbehaving.

The fact remains that a car's acceleration, handling, and braking are safety features. If you put a car that does 0-60 in 11 seconds, has crappy brakes, and can't hold the road in the hands of a driver.. or give the same driver a 350z, he has a better chance to dictate his own destiny on the road in the better car. I actually think super slow cars with crappy handling are dangerous. I can't stand indecisive drivers either. You see people pulling out into the road in front of someone who's doing 60mph, and then not getting up to speed in time. Sometimes because they're just an a-hole who doesn't care, but sometimes because their car can't get up to speed in time. Sure, they should have realized their car's limitations.. but they wouldn't have had that problem if they'd been in a faster car!

FineWine

iTrader: (10)

Your're reaching, fixing problems that shouldn't exist with solutions that don't matter.

The only time better (higher peforming) brakes are going to help you is if you're in a situation you shouldn't have been in. ABS is going to save you 100 times before upgrading to that BBK would have, if you weren't pushing the limits of the car.

Yes, all things equal, a 350z is going to stop faster than a buick...but any motorcycle would stop even faster. That does not mean driving a motorcyle is safer.

They wouldn't have had the problem if they didn't create the problem. Do you think said person would have made a better decision if they were in a higher powered car?


This attempt at justifying the added performance as safety features sounds pretty self righteous. Volvos are safety conscious cars, 350z's are not.

1GR8350Z

iTrader: (1)

They also have a better chance of showing their buddy how fast their Z will go. What happens if a deer or another car is in front of you at 120mph?

Again, you are talking about responsible drivers. This thread is about spoiled brat teenagers that in most cases get a 350Z handed to them. The vast majority are not responsible drivers and put themselves in situations that brakes and handling will not be able to get them out of.


That person that doesn't respect their slow cars limitations and pulls out in front of someone with not enough time to get up to speed is almost as dumb as the inexperienced driver that encounter the deer at 120mph.

I agree with what you are saying if we are talking about responsible driving. That is what you seem to be thinking about, while I am thinking about inexperienced teen drivers. We are truly comparing apples to oranges

Put a performance car with superior handling and braking in the hands of someone that is not showing their a$$ and has experience on the road, then they can be definitely be used to the driver advantage to avoid obstacles. Put it in the hand of an inexperienced driver who is showing off for their friends or looking for a rush, then those same brakes and handling will not do much in helping them slow down and avoid anything at 120mph

JEKL

iTrader: (24)

Only about once a month for the last few years. Driven in probably 40 of the states. I do admit I don't live in the sticks where you are more likely to see wildlife on the road, but it's not like this is the only place I drive. I am out of town more than I am home.

hartsickdiscipl

It's all about driving the back roads far away from the city. Although we do occasionally have deer right in the city of Austin.