Motor Trend has lost their collective minds!
02-01-2004, 07:56 PM
#41
Turbo Whore
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West suburbs of Chi-town
Posts: 7,303
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally posted by zerobanger
the best test the rx-8 got is 60-0 in 111 feet. I'm sure thats better than any test the Z got. You can look at these numbers and thats fine, but every test gets different numbers.
the best test the rx-8 got is 60-0 in 111 feet. I'm sure thats better than any test the Z got. You can look at these numbers and thats fine, but every test gets different numbers.
I can't wait to DESTROY some RX-8s this summer at the road course.
02-01-2004, 09:41 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pasadena/ Dana Point
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
See what the rx8 owners forget about being a sports car is the face that sport cars are fast. Look at the 0-100 tests. Z did it in 13 seconds while the rx8 did it in the 16s wow! Rx8 owneres please leave and go visit the miata forums where you guys belong
02-01-2004, 10:18 PM
#45
02-02-2004, 04:57 PM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that the test was unfair in its criteria. The RX-8 doesn't belong in the same comparo as the S2K and the Z.
I don't resort to street racing much, but the RX-8 is way to popular in central jersey and I have to do my part to belittle the owners of those abominations.
How and Motor Trend expect us to believe that the RX-8 makes the fewest sacrifices? It can't beat my brother's V6 accord in the quarter mile or to 60 and that thing is fat and slow. The accord also fits 4 people, two snowboards, has heated leather seats, navigation, dual zone climate, sunroof, silky smooth ride, and it still costs less than the RX-8.
Furthermore, MAZDA LIED TO ITS "FANS" ABOUT THE POWER OUTPUT. My Z puts 247 hp to the pavement. That's about 15% drivetrain loss. The first batch of RX-8's were showing drivetrain losses of over 25%. Geez, I didn't know our carbon driveshaft made that much difference.
I have nothing bad to say about the S2K. I believe it was also robbed of the first or second place finish it deserved. I would have been just as enthused about that car, but I had an ITR prior to my Z and that was all the high revving, ear shredding, can't drive on the highway, fun I could handle for at least another 5 years.
Cheers,
Dan
I don't resort to street racing much, but the RX-8 is way to popular in central jersey and I have to do my part to belittle the owners of those abominations.
How and Motor Trend expect us to believe that the RX-8 makes the fewest sacrifices? It can't beat my brother's V6 accord in the quarter mile or to 60 and that thing is fat and slow. The accord also fits 4 people, two snowboards, has heated leather seats, navigation, dual zone climate, sunroof, silky smooth ride, and it still costs less than the RX-8.
Furthermore, MAZDA LIED TO ITS "FANS" ABOUT THE POWER OUTPUT. My Z puts 247 hp to the pavement. That's about 15% drivetrain loss. The first batch of RX-8's were showing drivetrain losses of over 25%. Geez, I didn't know our carbon driveshaft made that much difference.
I have nothing bad to say about the S2K. I believe it was also robbed of the first or second place finish it deserved. I would have been just as enthused about that car, but I had an ITR prior to my Z and that was all the high revving, ear shredding, can't drive on the highway, fun I could handle for at least another 5 years.
Cheers,
Dan
02-03-2004, 03:32 PM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let's stop bitching guys 
Even their test data revealed that (conservatively speaking) 350Z is equivalent to, if not better than, the S2K, with RX8 lagging waaaay behind. 5.3 and 13.7 stock? I'll take it!
The only reason MT had to pick RX8 as a winner is because no one is buying them, while Nissan has sold an incredible amount of Zs (over 30,000 per year).
Even their test data revealed that (conservatively speaking) 350Z is equivalent to, if not better than, the S2K, with RX8 lagging waaaay behind. 5.3 and 13.7 stock? I'll take it!
The only reason MT had to pick RX8 as a winner is because no one is buying them, while Nissan has sold an incredible amount of Zs (over 30,000 per year).
02-03-2004, 04:21 PM
#50
Originally posted by igor@af
Let's stop bitching guys
Even their test data revealed that (conservatively speaking) 350Z is equivalent to, if not better than, the S2K, with RX8 lagging waaaay behind. 5.3 and 13.7 stock? I'll take it!
The only reason MT had to pick RX8 as a winner is because no one is buying them, while Nissan has sold an incredible amount of Zs (over 30,000 per year).
Let's stop bitching guys
Even their test data revealed that (conservatively speaking) 350Z is equivalent to, if not better than, the S2K, with RX8 lagging waaaay behind. 5.3 and 13.7 stock? I'll take it!
The only reason MT had to pick RX8 as a winner is because no one is buying them, while Nissan has sold an incredible amount of Zs (over 30,000 per year).
I could have sworn Mazda had it on the lockdown! Let's hope more magazines polishes the RX-8 up some more...maybe they'll get a ton of buyers! If they pay me enough i'll praise it too!
02-03-2004, 08:52 PM
#51
Registered User
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: newport beach. so cal
Posts: 2,802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by zerobanger
Ok, good luck destroying those rx-8's on the road course. I wish you the best of luck with your massive brembo's.
Ok, good luck destroying those rx-8's on the road course. I wish you the best of luck with your massive brembo's.
correct me if i am wrong, but i thought u had a rx-7??
Last edited by daytona350z; 02-03-2004 at 08:56 PM.
02-03-2004, 08:58 PM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by 350zdanny
I agree that the test was unfair in its criteria. The RX-8 doesn't belong in the same comparo as the S2K and the Z.
I don't resort to street racing much, but the RX-8 is way to popular in central jersey and I have to do my part to belittle the owners of those abominations.
How and Motor Trend expect us to believe that the RX-8 makes the fewest sacrifices? It can't beat my brother's V6 accord in the quarter mile or to 60 and that thing is fat and slow. The accord also fits 4 people, two snowboards, has heated leather seats, navigation, dual zone climate, sunroof, silky smooth ride, and it still costs less than the RX-8.
Furthermore, MAZDA LIED TO ITS "FANS" ABOUT THE POWER OUTPUT. My Z puts 247 hp to the pavement. That's about 15% drivetrain loss. The first batch of RX-8's were showing drivetrain losses of over 25%. Geez, I didn't know our carbon driveshaft made that much difference.
I have nothing bad to say about the S2K. I believe it was also robbed of the first or second place finish it deserved. I would have been just as enthused about that car, but I had an ITR prior to my Z and that was all the high revving, ear shredding, can't drive on the highway, fun I could handle for at least another 5 years.
Cheers,
Dan
I agree that the test was unfair in its criteria. The RX-8 doesn't belong in the same comparo as the S2K and the Z.
I don't resort to street racing much, but the RX-8 is way to popular in central jersey and I have to do my part to belittle the owners of those abominations.
How and Motor Trend expect us to believe that the RX-8 makes the fewest sacrifices? It can't beat my brother's V6 accord in the quarter mile or to 60 and that thing is fat and slow. The accord also fits 4 people, two snowboards, has heated leather seats, navigation, dual zone climate, sunroof, silky smooth ride, and it still costs less than the RX-8.
Furthermore, MAZDA LIED TO ITS "FANS" ABOUT THE POWER OUTPUT. My Z puts 247 hp to the pavement. That's about 15% drivetrain loss. The first batch of RX-8's were showing drivetrain losses of over 25%. Geez, I didn't know our carbon driveshaft made that much difference.
I have nothing bad to say about the S2K. I believe it was also robbed of the first or second place finish it deserved. I would have been just as enthused about that car, but I had an ITR prior to my Z and that was all the high revving, ear shredding, can't drive on the highway, fun I could handle for at least another 5 years.
Cheers,
Dan
IMO a sports car should focus on handling while a muscle car should focus on speed. Some cars, such as the Corvette, higher end 911s, exotics, etc. manage to do both very well. The RX8 handles better than most cars in its price range while still seating 4 (maybe not 4 large adults, but 4 average sized people) which, to me, makes it closer to a sports car than anything else. If the Miata is considered a sports car, and if the RX8, despite the fact that it seats two more people than the Miata, is faster and handles just as well, then why shouldn't the 8 be considered a sports car? Porsche, Lotus, Mazda, Toyota, and BMW have all created some awesome sports cars for decades and, although their cars may not have been the fastest cars out there, they could always handle extremely well. To me, that is the essence of a sports car.
A muscle car, on the other hand, puts speed over all else. The celebrated pony cars of the last few decades, many Mercedes (especially AMGs) and other high end, high powered cars are all prime examples of muscle cars. Although these cars may not always be the best handling cars (though there are notable exceptions), they do what they were made to do well, just as the RX8 and the Z do what they were made to do well. For under $30k, some sacrifices must be made. Imagine a line graph with "speed" at one end and "handling" at the other. The RX8's mark is biased more toward the handling side, while the Z's is more toward the speed side. I believe that the Z has a better balance between speed and handling than the 8 does (the Z is much faster than the 8 while only slightly lagging in handling) but that's just my opinion, and others are bound to disagree with that.
For most people having the faster car is all that matters and, let's face it, it's easier to compare the speeds of two cars on the street than it is to compare the handling of two closely matched cars. Most people who buy these cars will never approach the limits of their handling capabilities but will, at some point, take the car up to redline at WOT, so for most people a bit more power is worth the slight sacrifice in handling dynamics.
02-04-2004, 05:19 AM
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ________
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by PoorCollegeKid
A muscle car, on the other hand, puts speed over all else. The celebrated pony cars of the last few decades, many Mercedes (especially AMGs) and other high end, high powered cars are all prime examples of muscle cars. Although these cars may not always be the best handling cars (though there are notable exceptions), they do what they were made to do well, just as the RX8 and the Z do what they were made to do well. For under $30k, some sacrifices must be made. Imagine a line graph with "speed" at one end and "handling" at the other. The RX8's mark is biased more toward the handling side, while the Z's is more toward the speed side. I believe that the Z has a better balance between speed and handling than the 8 does (the Z is much faster than the 8 while only slightly lagging in handling) but that's just my opinion, and others are bound to disagree with that.
A muscle car, on the other hand, puts speed over all else. The celebrated pony cars of the last few decades, many Mercedes (especially AMGs) and other high end, high powered cars are all prime examples of muscle cars. Although these cars may not always be the best handling cars (though there are notable exceptions), they do what they were made to do well, just as the RX8 and the Z do what they were made to do well. For under $30k, some sacrifices must be made. Imagine a line graph with "speed" at one end and "handling" at the other. The RX8's mark is biased more toward the handling side, while the Z's is more toward the speed side. I believe that the Z has a better balance between speed and handling than the 8 does (the Z is much faster than the 8 while only slightly lagging in handling) but that's just my opinion, and others are bound to disagree with that.
a mercedes a muscle car? LOLMuscle cars are american cars with V8s. The 4th gen LS1s barely fit the term. It was used in the 60s and 70s for the 1st/2nd gen fbody, GTO, mustangs, challengers etc etc etc.
02-04-2004, 07:16 AM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These tests really mean nothing. They are completely subjective.
It`s like asking someone, "What`s the best color?" and they say "red". Well I think it`s blue, so who`s right?
I like the RX-8, but I just can`t get past that rear door.
Reminds me of that three door Saturn came out with :-)
It`s like asking someone, "What`s the best color?" and they say "red". Well I think it`s blue, so who`s right?
I like the RX-8, but I just can`t get past that rear door.
Reminds me of that three door Saturn came out with :-)
02-04-2004, 07:49 AM
#55
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by PoorCollegeKid
FYI - The RX-8 has a carbon driveshaft.
IMO a sports car should focus on handling while a muscle car should focus on speed. Some cars, such as the Corvette, higher end 911s, exotics, etc. manage to do both very well. The RX8 handles better than most cars in its price range while still seating 4 (maybe not 4 large adults, but 4 average sized people) which, to me, makes it closer to a sports car than anything else. If the Miata is considered a sports car, and if the RX8, despite the fact that it seats two more people than the Miata, is faster and handles just as well, then why shouldn't the 8 be considered a sports car? Porsche, Lotus, Mazda, Toyota, and BMW have all created some awesome sports cars for decades and, although their cars may not have been the fastest cars out there, they could always handle extremely well. To me, that is the essence of a sports car.
A muscle car, on the other hand, puts speed over all else. The celebrated pony cars of the last few decades, many Mercedes (especially AMGs) and other high end, high powered cars are all prime examples of muscle cars. Although these cars may not always be the best handling cars (though there are notable exceptions), they do what they were made to do well, just as the RX8 and the Z do what they were made to do well. For under $30k, some sacrifices must be made. Imagine a line graph with "speed" at one end and "handling" at the other. The RX8's mark is biased more toward the handling side, while the Z's is more toward the speed side. I believe that the Z has a better balance between speed and handling than the 8 does (the Z is much faster than the 8 while only slightly lagging in handling) but that's just my opinion, and others are bound to disagree with that.
For most people having the faster car is all that matters and, let's face it, it's easier to compare the speeds of two cars on the street than it is to compare the handling of two closely matched cars. Most people who buy these cars will never approach the limits of their handling capabilities but will, at some point, take the car up to redline at WOT, so for most people a bit more power is worth the slight sacrifice in handling dynamics.
FYI - The RX-8 has a carbon driveshaft.
IMO a sports car should focus on handling while a muscle car should focus on speed. Some cars, such as the Corvette, higher end 911s, exotics, etc. manage to do both very well. The RX8 handles better than most cars in its price range while still seating 4 (maybe not 4 large adults, but 4 average sized people) which, to me, makes it closer to a sports car than anything else. If the Miata is considered a sports car, and if the RX8, despite the fact that it seats two more people than the Miata, is faster and handles just as well, then why shouldn't the 8 be considered a sports car? Porsche, Lotus, Mazda, Toyota, and BMW have all created some awesome sports cars for decades and, although their cars may not have been the fastest cars out there, they could always handle extremely well. To me, that is the essence of a sports car.
A muscle car, on the other hand, puts speed over all else. The celebrated pony cars of the last few decades, many Mercedes (especially AMGs) and other high end, high powered cars are all prime examples of muscle cars. Although these cars may not always be the best handling cars (though there are notable exceptions), they do what they were made to do well, just as the RX8 and the Z do what they were made to do well. For under $30k, some sacrifices must be made. Imagine a line graph with "speed" at one end and "handling" at the other. The RX8's mark is biased more toward the handling side, while the Z's is more toward the speed side. I believe that the Z has a better balance between speed and handling than the 8 does (the Z is much faster than the 8 while only slightly lagging in handling) but that's just my opinion, and others are bound to disagree with that.
For most people having the faster car is all that matters and, let's face it, it's easier to compare the speeds of two cars on the street than it is to compare the handling of two closely matched cars. Most people who buy these cars will never approach the limits of their handling capabilities but will, at some point, take the car up to redline at WOT, so for most people a bit more power is worth the slight sacrifice in handling dynamics.
The Z handles just as well as the RX-8 in that comparo while blowing its doors off and providing a nice exhaust note. I'm glad that you make note of this balance is your post, but the 8 is just horribly out of balance as a sports car.
As far as the Miata being a sports car, well I just disagree with you there. I think it's a sporty car. Most sports cars are coupes, with a convertible variant. You may point straight to the S2K as a complete contrast to what I just said, but there are exceptions. The S2K does bring it to the table when it counts though (see the above description of the essense of a sports car.)
You left Nissan out of that list of manufacturers that create good sports cars. Don't they make the Skyline? Porsche, possibly one of the quintessential sports car manufacturers, does not only emphasize handling. You might say it is not even their highest priority. Driving exhiliration is. And their cars are FAST, turn well, sound good, and don't make any compromises to performance (once again, see my definition of the essense of a sports car).
Now all high powered cars are muscle cars? They sure fooled me with the Carrera GT. Muscle cars are by and large dead. The Fox Chassis Mustangs were the last, not so great, stalwart of an ideal that had its glory days in the 1960's and 1970's. The SVT Mustang has independant rear suspension for Christ's sake. Because it makes 400hp at the crank, it's a muscle car? What about the Cobra R? That's no drag car. The new SVT mustang in development for 2006 is targeted at the M3. Is that a muscle car too? It has 333hp. The Z has a 287 hp 3.5 liter engine making its peak power at 6200 and its peak torque at 4800.
Don't take my response to be an attack on you or the RX-8 really. I just love a good argument, and the best ones are about subjective things anyway.
Dan
02-04-2004, 07:52 AM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by R.J._Vancouver
These tests really mean nothing. They are completely subjective.
It`s like asking someone, "What`s the best color?" and they say "red". Well I think it`s blue, so who`s right?
I like the RX-8, but I just can`t get past that rear door.
Reminds me of that three door Saturn came out with :-)
These tests really mean nothing. They are completely subjective.
It`s like asking someone, "What`s the best color?" and they say "red". Well I think it`s blue, so who`s right?
I like the RX-8, but I just can`t get past that rear door.
Reminds me of that three door Saturn came out with :-)
They should have just titled the article: "A waste of 10 pages that you paid for because we can't stick to the criteria of our own test."
I'll say this about Car and Driver, Road and Track, or even SCC: they usually stick to their guidelines when comparing cars and give a good review. Obviously there is some subjectivity in everything, but when you let too much in, the results become worthless as you said.
Dan
02-07-2004, 03:41 PM
#57
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: P'cola, FL
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MT April 04 Issue
Hey Guys,
I just got a sneak peak at the April 04 issue of Motor Trend. This one has a sports car shootout between an rx8, a corvette, a 350z, and a kia sofia. I hope i don't get in trouble for releasing this, but the Kia barely won because it has four doors, more head room, and it is cheaper than the other cars. So if you have a job...if you have $199, you can drive home in the sportscar of the future.
I just got a sneak peak at the April 04 issue of Motor Trend. This one has a sports car shootout between an rx8, a corvette, a 350z, and a kia sofia. I hope i don't get in trouble for releasing this, but the Kia barely won because it has four doors, more head room, and it is cheaper than the other cars. So if you have a job...if you have $199, you can drive home in the sportscar of the future.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lt_Ballzacki
Brakes & Suspension
39
08-06-2021 06:19 AM