First time posting on here, not too sure what kind of activity still exists on this forum... Hope to get some input from other Z/G owners out there with turbo'd DEs.

Bought the car almost 3 years ago now, got it with all it's modifications. 1 week into owning it BOOM, head gaskets are kill. It was obviously stupid of me to buy an already modified Z I know NOW, but it only has 63k miles on it.
I rebuilt it and such, had a machinist install new pistons, bearings, did a valve job on the heads, resurface it and such, and it lasted a total of about 3 months worth of driving before suddenly KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK and a horrid vibration in the clutch pedal, of which I assumed to be a clutch issue (the knocking was SUPER prominent in the bell housing, which lead me to believe it was clutch related). I had pulled the engine on my own previously, so I went down that route because pulling the engine is actually easier for me with the tools I currently have than pulling the transmission. It also gave me an excuse to reseal the front timing cover because gray RTV sucks a**. Once I got the engine out I started with disassembling the clutch (ATS twin disc carbon clutch) and found little wrong, a bit of warping in the floating disc, but nothing that could be knocking. So I dropped the oil pan in moving to reseal the timing cover in the meantime, and as the oil pan dropped, so did 4 of what seems to be thrust bearings, or REMNANTS of main bearings. I then dropped the upper oil pan to discover cylinder 5 rod was BENT.
I have yet to dig deeper and determine if the block is salvageable, but the machinist took of .021' off the head and block, and bored it .020' so the block was wearing thin already. At this point I'm assuming it's properly toast, so I'm thinking.... big power?

Currently aside from the engine block being blown, I have the APS twin turbo kit, ATS twin disc carbon clutch, Greddy boost controller, Up-Rev tuner software and cable, full exhaust, oil catch can, and that about sums it up. I've been building a list of possible paths I could go down, and I was thinking if I want to go all out I could slap a brian crower stroker kit, hks head gasket, race bearings, fuel injectors, upgraded MAF if necessary, ARP L19 head and main studs of course to keep the heads from popping off, etc.
My ideal goal is anywhere between 600-800whp, but If I go brian crower I would want to go on the upper end of that spectrum for power. I'm not too sure about how much power the stock cylinder sleeves can handle before they start to compromise... They were in need of boring when I first rebuilt my engine, which isn't a good sign for them, but sleeving a block doesn't sound too cheap. WIll be researching other threads and such to find a good max there, but I want to hear what people out there have done.

2005 Base DE, non rev-up engine.

Thanks!

Edit: Definitely thrust bearings in the oil pan, actually looked at them and it's quite obvious.

 

Welcome and that's one helluva first post. So, you've owned this Z a total of three years ago, and had about a three months TOTAL of driving it? Phew! Something(s) were not assembled properly with that DE. Did you ever take it to the dyno to get a baseline test and tune on it?

 

Yup! 3 years owned and 3 months of driving in it. I'm currently in college, so 3 months is barely any driving. I had just gotten out of the break in period (machinist told me 3k miles, and I did the rebuild at 60k) so I had not gone to dyno it yet. I did however immediately purchase an Up Rev tuning cable after rebuilding it to modify the tune myself. I started by going through a lot of threads and constructed the safest possible tune for the break in period, and barely touched boost during the break in period as the machinist man said CAREFUL.
As for tuning myself I feel comfortable modifying the tune maps and such to be safe, but will be renting a dyno in the future for proper dialing in of my tune. I understand tuning is a very finicky task and should be done properly in order to utilize the potential and reliability of the car.

After the break in period I did some tuning with the 'physics' dyno, which with good data collection (using up rev through cars sensors) I was able to get actually a very reasonable calculation of horsepower to be right around 400whp, which is only slightly above what it was before the rebuild (378whp from dyno run shortly before buying the car). I'm a physics major, so not only are these calculations basic, but fun!

 

Side note:
Did some research on cylinder sleeve capacity and I've read in some forums that refer to other people having 800+whp builds on stock sleeves, but nothing absolutely certain (some say upwards of 1000whp is still 'okay'). A lot of which also said that the cylinder sleeves are actually quite thick compared to other engines, of which I would have no reference for. This is the only engine I have FULLY disassembled, and I mean FULLY. While I may not know the nomenclature of some parts, one way or another I fully understand how this engine works physically, but have less understanding of the material capacities of the components. Ideally I would like to know absolutely that whatever build I go through it will be as reliable as physically possible, I would really like this to be the last time I pull the engine out of necessity.

 

You asked for 2 cents, so-
A young person (college student likely on a limited budget) with 0 formal training trying to build and DIY boost a vehicle with 2 blown motors at 60K- the odds seem to be stacked pretty high against this project atm.
If I were you I would do this project in 2 steps -
Rebuild/Replace the motor so it runs reliably. If you want to spend extra $$$$ on parts suited for FI, great!
2) Only after it's proven reliable you now have 2 choices -
Keep it and boost it.
Sell it and all related FI items to cover your $$$$ losses.
This will give you better chances at success, allow you to actually drive the car and determine if you still love it enough to keep investing in it.
gl!

 

That’s a ton of money for a student. Best of luck on your build.

 

That is basically my plan, I'm working on a list of parts I would like to include on a rebuild of my engine (if it's salvageable) or another engine. I would greatly prefer to properly build whatever engine I go with so that it can handle whatever amount of power I put through it. I don't want any weak links, so whatever I do it will be as thorough as physically possible.
I have a lot of tools to utilize in this project, an load of mechanics tools, the tuning software/cable, forums and others with experience, and of course the want to learn! I understand there's a lot of things I don't know, but there are a lot of things I do know. The best thing I can do is expand what I do know for this project, and make a god d*mn legendary Z. My current experience poses no limitations on the capabilities of what can be done here.

 

I do like your optimism! If I were in your shoes, I'd be reading everything I possibly could regarding engine remanufacturing, not just YT vids. Ask yourself if concepts like xx/1000's of an inch and xx foot lbs = yy inch pounds are easy to absorb. Also, will you buy or borrow a lot of odd tools like piston ring installers and an engine stand? If mechanical jobs come easily for you, great! Everyone starts somewhere. Just be exceededingly prepared and understand the process start to finish, do not finance this project on a credit card bc that will put even more pressure on you. 2 cents, buddy, Gl!

 

Oh absolutely! I actually have watched very limited youtube videos and such. Some engineering explained, but nothing specific to Zs, mostly been forums and stuff for that along with my own hands on experience. As for measurements, calculations, or anything with some sort of math or physics component I am definitely comfortable with it (I've even dealt with the thermodynamics of engine cycles to calculate work and power output/efficiency).
I do have an engine stand and cherry picker, along with an assortment of other tools I've accumulated (~3k in tools) as I've since expanded automotive work to doing mobile repairs in my community to earn extra cash on the side of my current job and school. There will be some specific tools that I will be borrowing from places like autozone, but will only have to rent them temporarily and get my money back when I'm done (I also have a commercial account there which gives me access to their commercial tool catalog and cheaper parts).
Thank you for your input! I really appreciate it

 

Interesting ... all my 2cents, do with it as you like!

I would figure why you popped head gaskets (over-heated? Bad timing? Bad torque on bolts? Etc.)

ditch Uprev (as much as I love them) and you’ll need a stand-alone if you want a reliable 500hp+ build. Ditch the MAF and tune off of MAP.

ditch the EBC ... anything tune related needs to be off a single device.

ditch the twin kit and go single ... twins are awesome until you need service or maintenance.

ditch the chingaderious physics gizmo ... only child play with toys.

Itd be best to source another block possibly another crank ... if your machinist took .021” off the heads and .02 off the walls??

are you running E85?

avoid a stroker kit at all cost ... in my 15years owning my z33 I have not seen a successful stroker / sleeved block ... are they out there, yes! But few and far between!! Don’t roll the dice on them.

are you on stock rods & stock pistons?

dont expect more than 600 to 700hp if you want more than 3months out of it ... if you want more power than you simply need more displacement...either LS swap or the Z33 isn’t for you.

 

Thank you for your input bealljk,
I've just got the crankshaft out of my engine... yeah the bottom end is toast. MAJOR scoring where the thrust bearings used to be, bent a few rods, clearly was not comfortable with the power it was putting down. I'll try to put up some pictures of the damage later.
I've been digging through loads of forums, and I'm finding that my goals lie right around the cut off for the capabilities of the eagle-ish quality rods. I've found a lot of mixed reviews on them, but the gist of what I've read is that they're good for about 650whp.
This being the case, carrillo rods and other supporting mods get really expensive really fast... I'm pretty okay with putting a good amount of money into this car, but at the same time I would prefer to utilize everything I have already and just reinforce it, maybe get some bigger injectors (the APS ones go up to 500-550cc I think is what I've seen).
A big goal of course is longevity, I want the engine to be safe to run for a damn good amount of time. I'm cool with it being capable of putting down 700hp, but it will only be doing that very infrequently. No matter what route I go down, it needs some meatier tires on the rear end! I should be able to slap some 305s on there though and get some good grip going. A stroker kit is definitely out of the question at this point, that is just WAY too expensive to throw down. As fun as a 1000+whp car would be, it would be literally not be capable of being a dd.

I am not running E85, and don't plan to. Nearest place to get it is Portland I THINK, and that's over an hour away so definitely not worth.

My main attraction to up rev, is that I already have it.... So if I can use it successfully, then I'd prefer to stick with it.
Any recommendations on stand-alone engine management gizmos? I haven't looked into it at all and I'm not opposed to the idea.

Here's currently the list that I've constructed and found to be most attractive:
Wiseco pistons 8.8:1
Carrillo h rods
ACL race bearings
ARP L19 Head and main studs
Cometic, or HKS head gasket
Rev-up oil pump
JWT C9 cams with the valve spring/shim kit
Injector Dymanics 1050cc injectors (or something more fitting for what I need)
UpRev MAF (At least if I stick with uprev and don't switch to MAP, of which I also haven't looked into)

These along with sourcing a healthy long block, of which I've found from JDM imports (I'm unsure of how trustworthy this site is, but it's just the price I'll use for estimating the cost of an engine) everything comes out to be just over 7k. The cams are obviously optional, but I quite like the idea of having some meaty cams in there to give it a nice lope and some more oof. This is also obviously a tentative list, I'm positive there's more I'll need :P

 

There is a haltech platinum Pro for sale right now in the marketplace. You would still need Uprev but would add haltech for the boost control and fuel ign mapping. Its less than half price. I would also get a tuner to help with the initial tuning. These motors are a bit touchy with boost and timing. 400 hp on a DE when well tuned should be easily hit, but 400hp on a tune with a few sub-optimal points can definitely be the root cause of the HG and rod.

A good friend of mine built his RB in his living room in college. It can be done and more power to you for it. If you have the means or method to get the means then thats fine. Just make sure that you are 100% certain on every step to avoind having all of this repeat.


That is a pretty comprehensive build list, It would likely be cheaper to just get a built shortblock from Dynosty and move forward that direction.

 

I suspect your ignition timing is too aggressive and that's why you popped your heads and bent a rod ... if you havent already look into a root cause-analysis so this doesnt happen again.


like I said, Uprev is a great solution but it's not meant for 500hp or greater builds ... I love them, they are great, it's not them, it's nissan. You can only do so much tuning on OEM parameters. Look at Link and Haltech, Possibly AEM Infinity if you can afford it. Uprev hasnt served you well thus far. My Link would have flagged a extremely high coolant pressure (albeit, once it spikes, the head is lifted and you're rebuilding) and a bent rod would have been clued off by excessive knock values ... both haltech and link have these warnings and safe guards. Uprev is early-2000s technology and you're setting yourself up for early 2000s results.

Eagle rods are great for NA builds as they are light, they are not intended for FI builds.

go to the Top 50 FI builds and research those builds. Be careful who you listen to as-well. Not everything on the internet is true - theres more bad information on the internet than good. A good place to start for you would be High Performance Academy ($20/month) ... they're good.

You can economize on many things ... if you want a high-horsepower engine than it should be the last thing to economize on. Do it nice or do it twice and the age-old, fast/reliable/cheap - pick 2.

You'll need 1000 to 1300cc injectors minimum. If not a little bit bigger if you want over 650-700hp ($600).

Dont assume that you will have longevity ... I spun a bearing and a $10part failed and cost me around $1200 (I got off easy - most my stuff was re-usable). There are absolutely no guarantees in this game.

I would dial your cams down to the 260 to 270 range ... You dont need massive cams with a turbo setup like you do a NA setup. The engine will be easier to tune and you wont be spending your time at redline all that much. Bigger isnt necessarily better...

Whats your exhaust setup look like - you'll likely need something in the 4" to 6" range for the power you want to push and will likely have to be custom made ($500)
You will need to sink a healthy $500 to $1000 into a high capacity radiator. An OEM / OEM replacement radiator will not exchange the amount of heat you will generate.
You will need a medium sized oil coooler and it'd be wise to put a large capacity oil filter and/or a second or third oil filter in the system - ideally right before the turbo($500 - $800).

Since you are not going E85 (which I dont disagree with) youd be wise to add water-methanol injection($400).

did you say you have a return fuel system ($1000)?

what fuel pump are you running($150)?

add a harmonic dampening crank pulley($300).

add solid engine mounts - you'll blast through OEM mounts($150). Add poly transmount($100)

anything above 700hp you'll need an aftermarket drive shaft and aftermarket axles($2000).

add dynosty's crank girdle($300).

look into Sucker Punch Motorsports or Boundary Engineering's oil pump gear upgrade ... if you're looking to make big power it'll be bc you are spinning the engine fast. Oil pressure will be your best friend($400).


Wiseco pistons 8.8:1 ($1000)
Carrillo h rods ($1000)
ACL race bearings ($200)
ARP L19 Head and main studs ($500)
Cometic, or HKS head gasket ($300)
Rev-up oil pump ($600)
JWT C9 cams with the valve spring/shim kit ($1500)
Injector Dymanics 1050cc injectors (or something more fitting for what I need)
UpRev MAF (At least if I stick with uprev and don't switch to MAP, of which I also haven't looked into)
Link/Haltech/AEM ($2k to $4k)

GreyZ has a point with doing a piggyback Haltech, but they have connectivity issues and also has issues reading and recognizing aftermarket cams. If you can go standalone this will be your best bet.

and GreyZ's comment about tuning...let a professional tuner tune you...or at least shadow him while he tunes ... plan on $700 to $1000 for tuning & dyno time.

Factor in $300 to $500 in misc fluids / gaskets / seals / bolts / hardware along the way.

Factor in $500 to $2500 in machine work / balancing / cleaning / assembly

 

i like his ambitions, but i doubt we will ever see this completed

 

I do as well ... hard to justify $15k to $20k while trying to get through school annnnnddddd the car has already crapped-out twice

 

I think you said it... he would be better going ls swap. Before covid hit i had lined up a big cam ls with 600hp(albeit crank)for $5k. Add swap kit and fluids.. i was somewhere around 8 or 9k. Thats with using cd09 trans so saved there as well.

When I was in college I had to live on bean burritos, couldnt dream of having the cars I have now.

Do ot right oride it thrice!

 

600crank = 500wheel = 450wheel at elevation!