kzshin

Well, I drove all three and here are my opinions regarding handling:

S14 is very nimbel, precise, I don't feel the weight at all while I was driving. That's why its most popular among drifters. It made me feel that I can do whatever I want with it, and don't really care, kinda like driving those light weight Hondas.

As for 350Z, you can definately feel the weight compares to S14. It's still very easy to control, but you do feel the weight. However, the car feel more solid, refine, balance and secure, especially when you taking the turns. The chasis of 350Z is alot more stiff than S14 and the body roll is less (either stock to stock or mod to mod).

I think both cars take turns really well, so it depends what kinda driving feeling you want. However, I think I will have alot more confidence in the Z33, if I am taking a highspeed turn ( >90mph). The chasis of Z33 are alot more stiff and solid than S14. (I think it's even more stiff than S15). The weight and solidness on Z33 really help when you taking highspeed turns.

Regarding SUPRA. The chasis of supra is definately stiffer than S14, however, it's weight and the sitting postion definately makes it not as easy to control as Z33 or S14. I don't know if you ever "pilot" a boat (speed boat) before. For some reason, when I drive supra, I felt like I am piloting a boat, I mean it can handle the turn, but it taking it like there are lots things in your trunk. It definately doesn't take turn as crispy as S14 nor as sharp as Z33. (Well, but you can still out run a camaro, firebird or mustang on turn thou.)

On Highspeed turn, I think I will still have more confidence on Z.

The main problems to build power on Z is it's connecting ROD (too weak) and the ECU.

be honest with you, I really hope Z can be more tunner friendly like Supra TT or even EVO or STi. But hey, they don't attract chicks like Z right?

I will said Z is more balance overall from every perspective (that's why I bought it).

S14, if you want to drift and go to canyons or be a sleeper.

Supra, if you want to beat all those Eurpean Exotic on the freeway.

All these are just my opinions

dank311

iTrader: (8)

Kzshin -

Thanks for the reviews! That was great! Those descriptions helped out ALOT. When I drove the Z, it did feel alot better than my stock S14. Even with top notch Cusco coilovers on my S14, the Z still felt like it could keep up with it..stock! It did feel a little heavier, not much, but the whole driving experience felt like I was driving something lighter. The Z definately feels VERY WELL balanced, and I guess that why I loved driving it so much.

Another thing is that when I sat in the Z, it immediately felt like home. I loved the whole layout and I fit very well in the Z. Before we went for a ride in that guys supra, I got a chance to sit in the drivers seat for a minute to check it out. It felt alot bigger than everything else. It did feel somewhat like a boat..hehe..or a big airplane. The dash kinda looks like a airplane too..hehe

I am really looking for a car that can be really well balanced and be good(not the best) and everything. I like to drift, autoX, drag occationally, and I would like to take on my first road course very soon.

About the Z and F/I...How much would it cost to just cover a small engine buildup to boost a few more psi (12-15psi) since I dont really want anything above 450-500, and really anything more than 400 on the street is getting useless...so I would only like to build the engine to make it reliable. Not really to get alot of HP. Would a better headgasket lower compression enough to make things a little more reliable? Im thinnking about just getting a turbo/SC kit and leaving it on stock(prob more like stock-ish) boost.

Right now it looks like I might just go with the Z and face my chances with a F/I kit. But, I will be waiting a while to see how things turn out...also to wait for the APS and JWT TT kits, as well as the HKS S/C kit..

Jon

GregGSC

iTrader: (2)

hmm. Lets see apples to apples or stock to stock the 350Z is deffiatly the winner. stock to stock. new, warrenty, great handling, braking, and nice power. oh yeah and a lot lighter

Modified.
The supra has been out a long time it has had its ups and downs. It seams everywhere you turn there is a Supra on the dyno busting what everyone thought was the high HP level for the 2JZ. I've seen 1130 out of a daily drivable supra. that number is just crazy. my personal Supra has a Baby T66 on it and has made 724rwhp. The supra stock weighs 3650 pounds that is just a fat pig. I have lowered mine to 3200 by removing some unnessasary items most everything but the ac and radio. my car pulled 1.03Gs on a skid pad so the handling has been addressed as well. If you have a supra you will need to upgrade the brakes the 12.5" stock brakes just wont slow down a 3600 pound car.

In the Modified form the 350Z has so much potencial its crazy. I have been in talks with some engine builders and engineers who feel the VQ can support 1400-1600 hp in a race application. With a built motor and a proper fuel system I feel 600-800 to not be a problem for the VQ in Street trim.

So the question now, is what do you like better the Z or Supra.

dank311

iTrader: (8)

Hey Greg -

Yea, I have seen some crazy numbers on APU supras as well. But Im really not all into that. I dont want my car to have crazy numbers...I would rather have better handling and a good midrange power...Remember, I need something very responsive, and quick in the entire rpm band. I like to drift and I believe a APU supra just wouldnt suit my needs.

Also, if I get a Z and put any kind of F/I on it, it will not be under warranty anymore. Everyone puts that down as a big reason, or advantage for the Z, but you have to remember that the warranty won't be valid for too long. But it would be good before I go FI route.

The thing that hurts thte supra the most IMO is the handling issue. Everyone I have heard from say that its a big pig and would never outhandle a Z. If I had a chance to drive a supra, I dont think this would be as hard of a decision as it becoming to be. But, I am happy to say that I am in love with the Z, and its got a big advantage by being BRAND NEW!

Something I want to discuss a little further is resale value. Of course I hope the GTR will FOR REAL come out in 2007, and if it does I will be highly interested in selling this car to help pay for it, or another new car that might come out. Therefore, resale value is also a big factor in my decision...
If I get a Z or G, its definately going to be new...but if I go the supra TT route I am going to try and find a 96+ with around 55-75K miles on it.
So which do you think will have a better resale value in lets say 3-4 years?

Jon

phoenixZ33

I've had my 95 240SX for three years now and just bought my Z last week. I agree with everything said in the above post 100%. I've been in and out of Supras both driving and riding for 5-7 years as well.

Main points for the Z:

-Stiff, refined and modern chassis
-Linear powerband
-Styling is amazing (subjective of course)
-Very secure on fast corners, whether it's mountains, track etc.
-Tons of aftermarket stuff avail.
-It has 10 years of development technology over both of the other cars

240SX:

-Nimble
-Lighter
-Still good styling
-If you feel like spending $5,000+ in mods right off the bat, it'll be a very fast car, but still has an old chassis, interior etc.
-Very reliable

Supra:

-Good for beating Italian super cars in a straight line
-Feels like you're piloting a speed boat (as mentioned above)
-Potent from the get-go. Big motor, big brakes, big wheels etc
-Still 10 years old
-Weighs 300-400lbs more than the Z.

I stepped in my Z and haven't looked back since.. Totally awesome car. yeah sure there are faster cars, but it has kick *** styling, badass attitude and it shows how simplicity can be executed properly into a top notch package. Yeah sure I feel bad because I've spent $15,000 in mods on my 240SX and now it's sitting in the driveway under a cover, but the Z is just so awesome at everything. The last time I went out driving around town just for the hell of it was when I was 16 years old. I wake up at 2am to go drive my Z around for the hell of it. Given that I think it's safe to say that while Supra/240SX owners have a lot of following and there are tons of people modifying them, no other car has the *enthusiast* following like the Z - people who are in love with their cars for what it is.

GregGSC

iTrader: (2)

the warrentty will be void on the drive line of the z if you go FI. but the rest of the small things that go wrong are still covered. Depending on your relationship with your dealer will decide the fate of the warrentty.

As for resale value on a supra. i find it hard to believe its going any where. I got my car in 01 and paid 26k for it. It was mostly stock with 70k miles mind you its a 94 model. The going price for the cars has not changed. Toyota only brought in 4k turbo 6spd supras so if some one wants a clean one they will pay for it. The other problem is financing on a supra the nada book value is much lower than the cost of the car so financing becomes a problem. btw in 96 they only have an auto trans in the supra so it is out. the 97 cars are out there and the 98 cars well there are only 288 of them rolling the streets so finding one is a PIA.

As for handling the supra turned a .97 on the skid pad in stock formation, so the car does handle well. nimble is a different story. 3k in mods and wheels and tires and you have a cornering machine. my Supra is a great track car very fast on road courses like road america, roebling roads, and sebring. Andi Baritchi is has finished in the top 5 of the one lap of america in a supra 2 years in a row.

Now here is a piece of info you will like. 2 years ago at the tx2k4 supra nationals we were at a small auto cross style track in tx.

Here was how the winners looked.

1 Andi Barichi Supra APU (very experianced)
2 SW 600 Hennessy Viper (very experianced)
3 ? Z06 stock brand new car new driver
4 03 Track model Z right rear tire almost flat and the was the first time the kid (19 years old) was on any type of track/ autocross.
The rest of the field was filled with supras

kzshin

Isn't Z33 amazing, a 19 years old first time driver is able to drive it to number 4.

I watched couple old clips from Best motoring Video. Stock to Stock, and in the track with lots of turns and corners, Supra usually runs behind cars like GTR, NSX, RX-7, EVO and WRX.

Supra handles well, but depend on what you compares to. if you compare it to real cornering machine such as GTR, RX-7, EVO, STi, then it's handling is not so great anymore, and be honest with you skidpad value is like 0-60 values, it doesn't mean too much. I think the better value to look at is the "Slalom" values.

Anyway, an S14 with SR20 Engine (which is stock configuration in Japan) can definately out corner Supra easily in tied turns, so does EVO and STi. That's why you hardly see top tunners or racers in Japan use Supra to do touge. Most Supra belong to their capital highway (freeway) racing with Porches, Ferrari and Skylines.

And when you check the Time Attack Record in Tsukuba Circuit in Japan. You usually see EVO, STI, GTR, RX-7, S14, S15, not too many Supras.

The Supra in JGTC is complete different story. TRD know's Supra's cornering weakness, and that's one of the reasons why they swap the heavy 2JZ out and replace it with very light 3S-GTE engine, not only that, they tucked the 3S-GTE very close to the firewall, so it become Front Mid Engine, which results in better balance and better handling.

I like Supra (I almost buy them instead of Z), but I think if Handling is your primary concern, keep your S14 or get Z33.

GregGSC

iTrader: (2)

If your after cornering and drifting the s14 or the z33 are better platforms. short tracks with a lot of turns. The S14 will deffiantly cost a lot less than the z33 and probably out drift it. Well it would be my choice for drifting being the cost thing. The z33 is however definatly the choice I would make to hop in and drive across the country. to give you an example my supra is still on the trailer from a race 2 months ago. I have driven it on a 3k mile trip before and can say one thing. wont do that **** again. 780kg springs are not your backs best friend on a long trip.

The Z is a great machine for everyday duties and to enjoy on the weekends too.

dank311

iTrader: (8)

All I got to say is DAMN!

Lots of GREAT INFO here! I cant tell yall how much I really appreciate this! Thanks ALOT Kzshin, PheonixZ33, and Greg!!! All the info has helped out alot!

Now, to reply to a few comments:

Greg - Thanks alot about informing me on the drivetrain warranty with F/I...I hate misinformation, and I really appreciate you clearing that up for me. Now, That gives the Z ANOTHER advantage

I know the S14 would cost alot less and could be potentially better, but I honestly cant stand another day in that car. Like I said in a earlier post, its getting to be like driving a POS civic. Alot of people around town are trying to fix them up on a penny budget and it gives a very bad reputation on the rest of us. Also you are very right about the community. In the past year, I have seen the 240sx community turn to complete ****. I mean, you still have your gear heads and your real enthusiasts, but most of them are people who sold their civic to have a cheap RWD turbo'd DRIFTER! The fad is taken over and I dont want to be apart of that anymore.

But that really isnt the biggest reason why I am sick of the POS S14. I really want a new car, or a car that is quality built like the supra. The driving spirit and presence is a big factory in my overall decision. I want to feel like I am riding in a very well put together car. Thats one of the reasons why I am leaning towards the Z now. I know the build quality of both the Z, and the SOOP are far superior of a mid 90's nissan econo coupe.

More about handling:
I dont drift all the time, so this is not something where I am going to be tearing up all time taking it on touge runs. This is actually 75% daily driven. Since I live in TN, there aren't alot of chances to go to a track with short tight turns. The closest drag stip is even 25-30 mins away. So, if I ever want to take the car on a road course of any type I will have to take it out of town. Therefore, I wont be doing it very often. But I would like to do it more than I have been...But, I dont compete in anything, and I really dont care how I placed even if I did compete. I just like to have fun, not worry about competition. Therefore, I just want the handling and power to make me happy. Im not needing it to compete in any races really. My philosphy for this car, is just kind of the ultimate street machine...
While I really dont care what I place in a race, I would just like to be able to keep up with most of the cars out today. I am spending alot of money on a car, and I believe it should perform, as well as make me happy. So, in a way, yes it needs to be able to compete and get a good place in a competition, but thats not really what I am going for in all honesty.

The most racing I do is around town...I usually just take some backroads with my friends, and we usually have small drifting sessions in open parking lots, or empty communities that are just being built.(ones with wide enough rodes..hehe) I drag race ever now and then at the track...so thats basically what I do on a regular basis. But other than that...its basically a aggresive street driven car.

Jon

GregGSC

iTrader: (2)

hmm TN great mountains up there. We were traveling up to bristol for the nopi even last year and i must say getting lost on a back road was uh interesting. As far as tracks go CMP can't be that far from you 3-4hours along with road A. CMP would be a great track for the z and road a well its more of a supra track.

btw we are heading up to =Bristol for the nopi event again this year I might bring my supra up there if i get this turbo problem figured out. you are more than welcome to come for a ride in it to see what you think.