dank311

iTrader: (8)

Hey

I am in the process of selling my 240sx S14 with SR20, coilovers, body kit, front end converstion, etc, etc....I have most of it sold besides the suspension and the shell.

Anyways, I have decided that I am through with modding 4 bangers and I want to get another 6cly car. The cars I am mosly looking at are the 350Z(of course) and the Supra. While those are at the top of my list, I am also interested in G35's....But nothing else would be worthy enough to replace my S14...

I am looking for a car with a good overall package. I have driven the Z 3-4 times at the dealer and I must say I LOVE the ride! It would be a great daily driver. I want this car to be reliable long term...at least 3-4 years until a new car comes out that I might wany(GTR)...

The Z fits my bill perfectly...except one thing. I really want another turbocharged car. While s/c isnt out of the questions, I perfer a TT setup. But, I am a little worried about reliability and how long this might last on a NA car. I have done alot of research on this and it seems the VQ is slowly but surely breaking through barriers. I am not looking for more than 500rwhp...I probably really only need aronud 400....But I would like to have a setup that could be tuned to 375-400 on low boost, and 450-475 on high boost. If I could run a FI kit on the Z reliabily for a few years, I will probably definately go this route.

The Supra also fits the bill...its definately easy to mod and I can get close to 400rwhp with just a few mods, and all this w/o the engine breaking a sweat or being too stressed. I really like this car, but the fact is that they are getting old. But, I have come across a few really nice deals on mid milage supras that are in the same price range of the Z and G. While this is still a used vehicle...this is a toyota with a bulletproof engine...even with alot of miles, it could be argued that it would still surpass a Z with a TT setup on reliability. But, I have never driven a supra before...I got my first supra ride a few weeks ago, and it seemed like it was a very nice car. Very smooth, but fast! Feels like a lexus with boost!

Some of the things I would like to discuss in this thread are the following issues:

350Z - TT VS supra TT reliability
Resale value
exterior looks(old VS new, body kit options, exterior mods)
Interior looks(old VS new, interior modifications)
Suspension/Handling
Weighing out costs to reach my performance goals
Build quality of engine, interior, exterior...
I6 VS V6
Exhaust note and engine sounds
practacality/streetability/daily driver issues
Powerband differences
response and direct feeling
driving spirit
Shifting/shifter feel

I cant really comment on the stuff above b/c I havent really driven either of the cars for long periods of time...

My goals with the car are to have a nice overall package of performance, cleanliness, handling, and stunning exterior/interior looks. I would like around 375-425 hp, prefer turbo, upgrade handling with coilovers and a few other mods, body kit, wheels, etc...

Let me know what yall think about some of the issues I have mentions regarding the 350Z VS the supra....Also, if you have driven both, please chime in and tell me your driving experiences! How did everything feel, power, handling, response, shifting...anything from small and picky to big stuff. I would like to hear different opinions either good or bad about both cars.
Thanks,
Jon

kzshin

Reliablility should be the same. Since oldest 350Z might just be 2 years old, so it's kinda hard to say, but since both car are 100% built in Japan, and both Nissan and Toyota are pretty good at this department, so they should be the same.

Exterior look: I think this is subjective, although they are kinda similar in some sense. (both got big wide ***)
Interior look: Definately 350Z
Suspension and Handling: Definately 350Z. I dove Supra TT before. The handling on Supra is not as precise and clear as 350Z, maybe due to the longer front of Supra. It makes me feel like I am driving the boat, even if you used coilover and set the rear damping rate stiffer. For tide corner, I will definately say 350Z is better. At least for me, I can turn faster with 350Z.

To reach you performance goal: Definately Supra. You don't even need to swap turbo to reach 400 hp on the Supra. Just very few bolt-on. Supra is famous of making power.

Built quality: Engine wise I will said it's about the same. All others, I will said 350Z.

I6 vs V6: this is Apple to Orange.
Exhaust Note and Engine Sound: For Turbo, RB26 is the best, For NA, C32B (post 97 NSX engine) is the best. Between Supra and 350Z, they are about the same.

Practacality, Daily driver: They are about the same. I think Supra has bigger trunk thou.

Response and direct feeling: On straight, I think Supra TT is better (if you don't care about turbo lag). Cornering, definately 350Z

Driving spirit: ????? what do you mean???

Shift: 350Z.

I was in your shoes before. If you want straight line Prowess and wants to beat Ferrari, Porche, or Lambo on the freeway, I will definately get Supra. If you want cornering and handling, want warranty, and want a New car, then get 350Z.

I pick the 350Z mainly cuz of warranty, and I want a new car. Supra is nice and reliable (and it can take all kinds upgrades), but you don't know how previous owner drive/use their cars, (bad previous owner can really make the car unreliable) so it's kinda of taking the chance.

dank311

iTrader: (8)

I appreciate you opinions and advice Kzshin! Lots of good stuff in there...

As to the 350Z being 2 years old compared to a 8-10 old supra...I will be getting a BRAND NEW Z if I go the Z route. But for a supra, I will search for the earliest year that I can find.

Exterior: I really like both...but its almost comparing apples to oranges in a sense b/c they have a very different design...But I like to hear peoples opinions on different aspects of the exterior just for the hell of it...
Interior: of couse the Z

I6 VS V6: can you elaborate more on this. I know that the I6, the cyl. are in a line like my SR I4...which in turn gives you more space to work on the engine....but are there any other performance or reliability issues with having one over the other??????

Handling/Response...this is what Im kinda worried about. I dont think i will get a chance to drive a supra any time soon, so thats why i need all the help i can get from people have driven both. I know the supra is huge and heavy therefore having slower response and possibly sloppy feel compared to the Z...One thing I love about the Z is it feels very close to my S14 with Cusco coilovers...and that something I really would like to keep. I mean I dont compete in competitions very often, but I really enjoy having a well handling car for windy backroads and just plain fun. This is something that scares me about the supra...Im not sure if it could fufill my handling preferences.

By driving spirit I mean...how does the car drive overall? What is the feeling you get when in the car? FE...in my S14 its much more a thrill ride than riding in a supra...You feel like you are going fast in the S14 b/c it resonates throughout the car, shifter, feet, etc...The supra is more of a GT car were its more like a lexus with boost. but I have only gotten a chance to ride in asupra once, and it was for about 5 minutes...So I need someone who is experienced with supras to give me more info on the overall driving experience. How does it feel to take a supra on windy backroads?

Also, about warranty...I will most likely void my warranty w/in a year...I would like to keep the engine NA for about 6-8 months while I do exterior mods..but after that, I am going to F/I! So, warranty will be good for about the first year.

Also I am wondering if a TT Z will be any more reliable than a older TT supra...I dont want to ruin a brand new car that has a good thing going for it just b/c I wanted more power. I mean, if its tuned right, Im sure the Z would be reliable to an extent, but long term reliability(over a year) is what I am worried about the most!

Jon

DBZCat

iTrader: (8)

I was in the exact same position as you were with which one i wanted, supra or 350z.

I used to own a 97 TT supra for a year and by far was my favorite car. I loved it more than anything and unfortunately I had to sell it. Everything about what i wanted in a car the supra had, so when it came time to buy myself a car again, I defintely wanted a supra no questions asked...

as i continued my love for supras and how awesome they were, I just couldn't get over having to cash out 30,000-40,000 for a used 7 year old car, although the car is by far my favorite, it just didn't make since to pay that much for a car without a warranty, unless of course you have alot of money to spend and basically buy the car for a toy and not a daily driver.

See the problem with supras is when you do come across a well maintained supra it costs more $$ because they are usually one owners (which is huge in the supra world) and haven't been modified, another big thing, and you just really shouldn't settle for anything less than a car maintained like that, especially since they are so old.

Although all this factored I was still determined to buy a supra and came across many cars I was about to purchase when i just realized that although the car is badass, and i defintely still would like to have one, it just doesn't make since to buy it over the Z. I mean yeah, it has turbos and its awesome in everyway, but with the money you save going the z route you could do so many mods to the Z and it is new, not only to mention that nissan as well as toyota has long lasting reliable engines.. and you have warranty, and you have a NEW car not used...

I ended up buying a base model 2004 Daytona Blue 6spd for $26,500 out the door. and now have lots of mod money and can't be more excited.

what I did, and suggesting you do as well, it write down what you are looking for in a supra.. miles, color, 6spd or auto, how long you are going to keep the car? then research how much you would have to pay for that car... then do a comparison with the z and its price... when that is done I'm sure although you really would like to have a supra.. it just isn't the smart way to go... especially if you are just now buying a 7-10 year old car, bottom line is that even though toyota has reliable engines... the car gets old whether you put miles on it or not...

I mean, think about all the technology that has happened over 10 years to cars...

I guess bottom line is I would get the supra if you pay cash for it, and plan to have it as a weekend car, while driving a different car as a daily driver. but that is only if I was in the financial position to where 40,000 wasn't alot of money... (which it is to me so..)

if you are looking for a daily driver the 350z is the way to go, supras are still one of my favorite cars, and i would love to have them both but I didn't need to be buying two cars for myself, I am only 20. If I did that I would be broke, with 2 awesome cars... but a car isn't an investment and gradually decreases in value, and i would be left with whatever i was making now.. and all that saved up money is gone.., it just wouldn't be smart, I'd rather invest that money than buy another car...

money saved is money in the bank, money in the bank is money you can invest and make more money on... ever read "the richest man in babylon"? short book, great read, suggest you take a look, it is by george classen.

If I could, I would have my 350z as my daily driver and a supra for a weekend car, now that would be ideal!!!! but it just wouldn't be smart financially.

you just have to realize, and i know it is hard, because it took me a while, that you are comparing a 7-10 yr old car that is more money, than a BRAND NEW car that is less expensive. With used cars, there are ALWAYS going to be flaws, I mean, natural wear and tear, everyday use. etc...

good luck with your decision, either way you will be a happy driver...

cat

kzshin

Exterior: IMO, I think Z looks better than supra. Stock to Stock.

I6 vs V6: Well, I6 is inline 6, some people might tell you that inline 6 has better response and V6 runs smoother. However, it all depends on the engine design. A better comparison will be 2JZ-GTE vs. VQ35DE NEO.
2JZ-GTE: Heavier, Iron-cast block, can handle lots of boost. Older design, but far advance at the time it was released).
VQ35DE NEO: Lighter, all aluminum, greener, variable intake and exhaust valve timing.

Reliablility both will be the same.

Performance wise. Since 2JZ-GTE can handle lots of boost. it outperforms VQ35DE NEO in power generation category. It can make more than 400 hp without touching any internal of the engine. However, if you are talking about Gas/mileage, Clean air things, VQ will be better.

Handling response: I drove a S14 before too, and because it is lighter than both Z and Supra, it is way easier to control. IMO, Z will be closer to S14 in the handling category. However, they are still very different thou.

Driving spirit: hmmmm, I don't like to take Supra to windy back road, it is too big and Heavy. Acutally, for windy canyon road, I think S14 will be the best. I think supra belongs to the Freeway, It is meant to race with those top dollars exotic, and it need a place to extract those horsepower.

Generally speaking, an aftermarket FI car is not as reliable as factory Turbo cars, period. Because the engine was not designed for turbocharging. It can be, but was not design too. However, I do believed if you can find a really good and knoweldgible tech (this is very rare) and have him work on your car. Reliability issue can be solve.

You know, if you don't care about the looks, and all those superficial things. I think STI or EVO will be more suitable for you.

yiaquemini

if ure fast & furious, get supra
if u want a daily driver g35 is better,
if u want something in between, get the 350z

I agree with kzshin, testdriving the Evo or sti wont hurt if you dont mind the boxy look. The stock Evo MR ($33k) coming soon to the US does 0-60 in 4.3 sec, and 1/4 mile in 12.9@107.6 mph, 0.98g skid pad.

speed isnt everything though... no matter how fast ur car is, theres always someone faster out there. thats why I like the 350z because its reasonably fast and looks great. just my 2 cents

dank311

iTrader: (8)

Man, I knew this was going to come up...KZSHIN...I realize that sit and evo are my best bang for the buck, but I PERSONALLY wouldnt be cought dead in one of those things. Really, I perfer the evo over any suburu, but still...I think i would rather just have a 350Z and keep it NA...better yet, I would rather take my chances on a 100K miles supra..hehe..that being said, lets not bring up those **** boxes anymore..hehe

Cat - Man, your post is sentimental! I have the same love for the supra as you do. Ever since I was 15 I wanted one. Now I am 20 and I just got done with my S14 project and I want a 6cly...again, pref turbo'd....
I was a step ahead of you...I have already looked at supras with the things that are on my "need to have" list and I have found decent mid mileage(45-65K) supras going for $24-29K...I believe this puts me in the same region as a 350Z. There are some out there that are still going for 30-40+ but alot of that has died down i think in the past year..and most of them that go for that much are heavily modified. If you go on autotrader, there are several examples of decent supras in the 350Z price range.

That being said....I am still in love with the supra and I dont know whether or not it is a good choice for my needs and for my pocket. I am mostly worried about the handling aspect of the supra. Driving my S14 around and doing a little drifting has made me fall in love with agile cars. But I know that both the cars that I am looking at are much heavier. Now I have driven a Z 3-4 times, one with nismo parts, and it felt very similar to my S14. At times...it even made me 10 year old car feel sloppy. I guess that is another thing about new cars....Even if you have upgraded coilovers, little things like bushings could give the car a very sloppy ride. I got a chance to push the Z in a few corners, even with the dealer in the car..hehe...and i know for a fact that I enjoy the way it handles...I know that with some coilovers on a Z it will feel the same if not better than my S14.(and I have Cusco Zero2R - the most expensive cuscos, on my 240)...

Right now...I think I am leaning torwards tha Z....but the one thing that is holding me back from being 100% is the F/I reliability thing. Is there any way I can be more confident about risking a brand new engine with a S/C or turbo? Is 400hp too much to ask out of this car?

Also, not to get into the whole S/c VS turbo too much...but what is more reliable on the VQ? I know boost is boost, and s/c and turbo run differently off the motor, and put different stress levels and different RPMs...but maybe someone with experience with F/I and the VQ could chime in!

Thanks again for the opinions and advice...everything is helping me...a little at least..hehe
Jon

kzshin

Regarding FI or SC is more reliable. I think it depends on which company that designed them.

For example, most of us here knows what Greddy/Trust is. So do I think Greddy's TT kit is reliable. Yes. I will think a company with long list of racing history, financial and engineer abilities, will have design the kit really well.

What about TT charger that is designed by your local speed shop. Hell no.

same with supercharger too. If it's by HKS, I will think it's more reliable. From ATI???? I am sorry to say this, but I never heard them compete in major professional race in Japan or Internationally.

So it really depend on who designed it, and how you like the horsepower been delivered.

400hp (on the crank) is not too much to ask for the Z, but you do need to spend alot more money compare to what you need to spend on a Supra TT to get 400hp.

However, 400whp means you have to spend major money.

350Zrunnin12s

iTrader: (9)

Hi Dank, I have owned both cars.. a 1995 Supra and now a 2004 350z...

In my opinion 2 totally different cars. The supra is a modfest and the looks and speed can not be matches when done right.

However, as you said for reliability... the 350z is great it would be new, however, personally i wouldn't drop the turbo in the car if its everyday use, because it is a larger turbo and gives a lot of power.. the Supra however, is great for that because basic BPU kit gives you btwn 400-450 hp and doesn't stress the motor.. so i think you should think, do u want RELIABILITY or SPEED. I sold the supra for reliability reasons .. a 1995 with 65k miles when i sold it (getting older).. had over 20k in mods. But i just couldnt use it as everyday ne more for insurance reasons and the fact I was scared to bring it out. I have done minor mods to the 350z and i love the car for what it gives. However, I am very partial to Supras and when my time is done with my Z, i will have a everyday car ( mazda 6, late 90s BMW 3 series or C class Mbenz) and another Supra for the weekend and fun.. As much as i love the Z right now there isnt enough engine mods for the price that gives me what i want, and the fact the supra will always be my favorite import (funny i came to the nissan side after the supra *COUGH* Skyline *COUGH*) Next supra will be a T-78 conversion ( roughly 750-800whp) and of course kit, rims, interior, etc etc. However, I think the real decision based on what I found is do you want reliability or speed. I got rid of the Supra for reliability, and as for the Z it is great looking, and very reliable.. just lacks the speed of the Supra.

And i agree with what someone said above, the 350z vs supra stock for stock looks better. However, once modded I disagree, however, i think both at certain angle and certain mods, look pretty simliar.

350Zrunnin12s

iTrader: (9)

^^ as for CATS write up i completly agree, reason i sold my supra was that reason.. needed a true everyday reliable car.. and the Z was the closest thing. Thats what i was trying to say in my speel of writing, that even though the cars my favorite, it isnt a practical everyday car modded or stock.. the car is 7-10 years old.. my Supra was immaculate however, towards the end, starter went, altinator, other minor stuff, with windows, etc etc... witht he Z it usually wont happen, and its under WARRANTY

kzshin

or wait till 2007 and get GTR. That's is what I am planning to do

DBZCat

iTrader: (8)

I totally agree with everyone...

as for kzshin an opinion...

I wouldn't wait until 2007, because by that time something else better will always be coming out, and you will find yourself always waiting for that new car... I would suggest getting what you want now, cause no matter what you do, there will always be something better being made, or fixin' to come out in a few years.... just a thought sweet @ss car though!!

Dank311-

I have driven both and each car is fun to drive for different reasons...
bottom line is the reason people enjoy supras is not because of their handling, but because of the amount of boost you can easily get out of the turbos... but if you go the Z route I promise you won't be dissapointed, I love it and enjoy driving it... do I wish I had turbos---OF COURSE, but that day will soon come,
I defintely think that you should go the Z route, and even you yourself stated your probably will... you should go for it, the only thing left for you to do is pick out your color!!

JonsilvZ

If you want to spend in the mid $30k and want a car that goes under 13s and handles like a sports car. Get a 5yr old C5 Vette. Besides a naturally aspirated engine is always reliable. Couple of boltons on the LS1 you have 400hp. FI then you have a monster!

kzshin

"The only thing left for you to do is pick out your color."

Man, that alone is hard to make decision. I remeber I spend so many days go to dealerships just try to decide what color I want to get. For a car that look so nice with virtually any color, it is one of the toughest decision to make.

DBZCat

iTrader: (8)

kzshin

LOL, I know, that is why I said it... I couldn't decide either... I did the same thing as you.. I would drive this car in any color... they are all beautiful!

I ended up getting daytona blue, in the end they all caught my eye, but the blue caught it first when they were all sitting there...

cat

kzshin

HAHAHA, U too?

My last three choice were white, blue and black, and they are all in different dealerships. So I let who ever gave me the most discount to decide for me. And it turned out the dealership that has the black one gave me most discount, and treat me the nicest. That's why I got the black one.

DBZCat

iTrader: (8)

yeah, I would have done that but I got hooked up through a friend to give me VPP so no haggling price, just decide on color...
Black was my second, and the dealer had one, and not blue, but they traded...

what's so funny is i had put an order in for an enthusiast, and there wasn't any at the time in that color, so I was stuck waiting 2-3 months... anyways a week went by and I got so antsy that i just got a base model instead... i figured with the modifications I am going to do, I don't need to get anything more than the base...
who needs tcs anyways!! needless to say I have had the car for 4 wonderful days, even though I have only got to drive it one day because of the weather... so I will drop in the garage every now and then just to say hi, and see how awesome it looks... although everytime I look at it I find myself saying get this, get that..
I have all my zaino stuff ready, I just need the rain to stop!!!!

Cat

kzshin

HHAHA. Me too. The reason that I got base model is because I figure that since I am going to modify the car, why I need all those up graded stuffs. You are right, who need TCS, and since I was planning to get NISMO LSD in the future, I don't need VLSD that come standard with other models.

OH man, too bad you don't live in Souther California. It has been dry most of the time.

DBZCat

iTrader: (8)

yeah, I just moved to Oklahoma for school I miss Texas.... but it has been raining there lately too...
the day will come sooner or later..

dank311

iTrader: (8)

alright, I went to the dealer today and I saw a few Z's....On the way home I saw a guy in a black supra. Then on the same road I saw a blue Z...so i got a chance to see a supra and a Z pretty much on the same road. They were both very nice...but I have to say it is like comparing apples to oranges. I mean, the supra is VERY aggressive looking..and thats something that the Z doesnt not give off. The supra is definately "Jap Muscle Car" looking and the Z is a little bit more trendy looking...very comparable to a porsche. Not that that really bad, it just is a completely different design, which I really noticed when I saw them both up close. Damn..basically what Im tryin to say is...I cant decide what looks best IMO. I wish I could, but they have totally two different looks. While the Z is more modern styling, it makes the supra look like its getting old. But the supra is big and muscle-y, and will always get respect IMO b/c its almost like an high price exotic sports car...or should i say GT.

While the looks of the cars are both nice, I know that the supra is a little hefty and the handling is not up to par as the Z is. Could anyone descrive in works how it feels to drive a supra...maybe compared to a S14, and a 350Z...I think this is ultimately my biggest factor. The whole driving experience and feel is very important to me. I like to feel incontrol of the car and I like to feel very quick, but smooth response. So the biggest thing that is holding me back is the handling of the supra...the fact that it is old, doesnt bother me too much...either way I go I am going to get a newer and lower mileage car than my S14 was. Also, the build quailty of both cars are far superior of my POS 240sx...

The biggest thing that I am worried about in the Z is F/I. I really dont know how long I can go without a turbo or possible a S/C. If the Z was more mod friendly I wouldnt even be thinking about the supra. The Z has EVERYTHING I WANT EXCEPT....the TURBO.
About the Z and F/I...what is holding the Z back so much to being mod friendly? Is it ecu and EMS tuning, or is more of a fact that the pistons/rods cant hold power...and the fact that it has non-F/I compression?

Also, anyone that has driven a supra, Z, or S14; or all three....please chime in and give me the best descriptions experience you can on the differences of driving them...the differene in response, overall feel, the way you feel in the cockpit, daily driving experiences, racing/track experiences....anything! Whats makes one or the other stand out more...what aspect of driving and performance stands out most in each car..and how does that translate into driving on the street, and/or track....

Again, I appreciate everyone for helping out...time is closing in, and I need to decide on a car pretty soon...damn, i wish i could just find a supra to drive!
Jon