I'm reading some of these posts regarding MT vs AT and on quite a few of these I picture the old grandfather standing in front of a computer telling some young kid "When I was your age we never used those new fangled things. Never used it. Never will." Times have changed and technologies have changed and yet there are those whose minds will never change.

When word processors were still called automatic typewriters there were quite a few secretaries that didn't want to change because they said the typewriter was better. How many of us still use manual typewriters? I'm a photo hobbyist. I still enjoy using a manual camera, composing my own shots, developing and printing my own film. How many people short of professionals and talented hobbyist still do this? With the advent of digital cameras and programs like Photoshop, many people can get professional results with out the expensive equipment and tedious process. They just don't prefer to do it the old way. I even use a digital camera and Photoshop more than my regular camera and now I rarely develop my own film. It's just easier to take it to a one hour photo place and have them develop the film and use my computer and Photoshop to print them later. Technology and personal preferece have made it obsolete. Using technology in photography doesn't make me a worse photographer.

Granted there are those that didn't get a choice but, I think that most people that have the choice as to what transmission they want to drive will choose the one that they find more enjoyable or useful to them. In the Z both the 6MT and the 5AT perform equally. It is just two different ways to drive the same car. Like it's been said before it is a matter of preference. I am in no way saying that MTs can't been fun to drive. Because of their simplicity, given the right conditions and the right skills the MT is fun to drive for some people. On the other hand, many people find them a pain in the a$$. I find that MTs are fun to drive but I just prefer the new ATs and have just as much fun. I don't like the manual clutch pedal but there are those that do. It's all preference.

Yes, I own the 5AT. I went to the dealer telling myself it's a sports car and I'm going to get the 6MT. The dealer kept telling me about the 5AT and kept suggesting that I test drive both before I decided. I figured if I just test drove the 5AT he would just give up and we can start negotiating on the 6MT. At the end of the day I drove off with the 5AT and no regrets. My point is that like myself, many people have misconceptions about todays auto transmissions like the 5AT.

Most performance auto transmissions like the 5AT, Tiptronic S, F1 and SMGII use modern electronics and advanced computers to enhance driver skill and performance. The new performance ATs are not the old slush boxes from back in the day. They perform just as well as the MTs. Except for stepping on a manual clutch pedal, I haven't found anything that 6MT can do that the 5AT can't. There are many drivers out there whose egos are bigger than their driving skills. I'm not professional driver and I have no qualms about using technology to make up for it. Just like the old man who refuses to accept the computer as mainstream no matter what it's advantages or disadvantages are, there will be those that won't accept the AT as a legit transmission no matter what.

Just my two cents.

 

When doing real racing in the Z, and I mean real racing not "hey, lets drag race off a light", I mean either on a track or an AutoX course there is NO difference between an AT and an MT. 0. Zip. Period.

Can I drive a manual? Yes.
Would I like to drive a manual over the very nice 5AT already sitting in my Z? Hell no.

I don't ever have to worry about burning a clutch out, about traffic, about mis-shifting. People talking crap about the 5AT should really actually drive it using the ManuMatic mode, other than no clutch there's really no difference, same throttle blip on downshifts(gotten good at that ), same shifting style, just 1 less OD gear.

 

I agree the choice of AT or manual is very personal. However, it seems most kids today learn to drive an automatic. I'm getting older now, almost 61 and have been driving manual transmissions most of my life. I started driving with an old three speed on the steering column. Then moved to 4 speed on the floor, 5 speeds and then the 6 speed Z. I really enjoy driving a manual transmission.

When my daughter started driving several years ago, I got her a 5 speed manual. She started driving the stick and loves it. She is now almost 21 and claims she will never drive an automatic. She likes the way she controls the car with the manual transmission. It did take quite a bit of time to teach her how to drive the manual properly and an automatic would have been so much easier. However, we both persevered and now she loves the stick shifts. None of her boyfriends have a clue how to drive a stick so they can't drive her car (fine with me).

I just think most people are missing out on a lot of fun if they never learn to drive a stick shift properly.

Les

 

Aggro_Al , you're my hero ! You're so right about old vs. new technology. I actually had someone tell me the other day that a manual gets much better gas milage then an auto. LOL, how old is that thinking ? Anyway, I like manuals. I've driven them all my life till now. But in this Z, at this point of time, the auto (for me) was the better choice. There was a time if you had an auto, you would be afraid (and probably never would) race the same car with an MT. Today, I can honestly say that I would race any stock 6MT Z with total confidence that I would probably win or at least tie. As for total control of my Z on twisty roads? With manual mode up and down shifts, I feel I have total control all the time. I'm not bashing the MT. Like I said before I've driven them all my life. I'm just saying that it would be nice if the MT owners would stop looking down their nose at us and come into the 21 century. They all sound like my 76 year old father when they try and justify that only men drive MT's. I'll be LOL as I past them to the finish line while they're either searching for or grinding a gear. But at least they'll look like MEN doing so. Just my two cents also.

 

Alot of the people flaming the auto really have no friggin clue on what their talking about.

 

I've had my 5AT for 12 months. Considered the stick but then the wife couldn't drive it (hmmmm, no big loss). I love the Auto, and for the times a stick would be more fun I just whack it over into semi auto mode.

Aggo made a great point about old v's new technology and we all agree that Auto's have come a long way in the past 10-20 years. After all, the most technologically advanced racing cars (formula 1) are all fully automatic now!!!!

 

Manual clutches won't be made extinct by those automotronic-a-jiggers because clutches allow the driver to control the engine revs and application of power to the wheels separately, which gives the driver more control and more options. They're more fun for a lot of people, there will be market for them, and they're also cheaper to build and maintain.

 

Had no idea that youngsters preferred AT's... if they did, it's probably a preference of convenience over performance (that is, being in direct control of gearing, etc.). As I read on a few different auto forums, young'uns get pretty flamed for choosing AT sports cars by their peers...

<<A childhood friend of mine got a E46 M3 with SMG.. and we were all giving him crap for "faking" it...BTW he is the same guy that taught me how to drive stick 10 years ago.>>

Same with an old buddy of mine as well. He told me he was thinking of the SMG and I tried to talk him out of it. No matter, he got the SMG and loves it. His previous 6 cars have been manuals (and he's only 27 ), so I guess he just wanted a break from the same (plus he says that the SMG is the same as the manual WITHOUT mistakes or extra work).

 

Yup, manual transmissions will be around for quite a while and that is great. Choice is good. You mentioned that an automatic wouldn't be able to control the engine revs, would you mind explaining why I wouldn't be able to do that in the 5AT?

By the way, all fixed gear transmissions, manual or automatic, use clutches. A clutch just makes it possible for two or more spinning shafts to spin at different speeds or the same speed. That is all a clutch does. Nothing less, nothing more. In the 6MT it is mechanically engaged manually by stepping on the clutch pedal in the 5AT it is hydraulically engaged by the computer when the driver inputs the shift command. The throttle controls the engine revs and as far as I know the throttle on the 6MT and the 5AT are identical.

 

With the stock clutch and flywheel, yes, there is very little difference. But when adding performance modifications, beefing up an auto trans is very hard and expensive and sometimes can't reach the power capacity a manual trans can handle. Manual transmission cars can be made to go faster with different gear ratios and lighter flywheels. Just put on a Tilton Flywheel and clutch and a 6MT can easily take the 5AT, no ands, ifs, or buts about it. If you plan to keep your car stock, the 5AT is just good enough. Just trying to clarify things for others who read our posts because you made it sound like they were exactly the same

I have driven an auto Z and I was very surprised at how hard the shifts were in manu-mode. The thing I find most fun with manual transmissions is rev matching, which you can't do in an automatic. Downshifting and rev matching are what I love and do best. And a good driver doesn't burn the clutch

Edit: Your posts says you can rev match (but you said blip the throttle). Rev matching is making the rpms of the engine and the transmission the same to make a smooth shift. This can only happen when the clutch is not engaged, but I thought in automatics you don't have control of how long it is disengaged. Maybe you're just doing it for fun, but doesn't do anything for what it's worth. Please explain...

 

Throw a high stall TQ converter on an auto and you just matched the new clutch/flywheel combo you named.

As for rev matching on the auto, when downshifting using ManuMatic mode its very possible to acheive very smooth downshifts by holding down the throttle a little(or a lot depending on the revs you'll be hitting) and its much harder to acheive a smooth downshift than just jerking the ManuMatic lever down as most people think.