shimz350z

"Real enthusiasts want manual transmission cars for many reasons:
more horsepower to the wheels"

Are you serious? Have you read most of the responses to this thread with many intelligent responses?

What do you define as "real enthusiasts?" Is that someone who's primary concern is peformance specs?

I guess my post wasn't to articulate. One of your many reasons is horsepower, according to your statement. My first post had already commented on the possibility of compromises when making a decision especially exterior aesthetics.

If one with a manually z, stock for stock, had to bring such argument to the table about pure performance without exterior aesthetics in mind then I would have question your credibility on purchasing this particular car. Because the evoIII and STI perform better straight from the box.

shimz350z

Could not have said it better. Maybe you should have started this thread

Zcarboy

Why can't we all just get along? After all we are Z family here whether it is 6sp or 5AT. We all bought our cars with our own money (or at least most of us here.)

It is funny because my father who grew up in Europe and my wife who is from Brazil where it is almost 95% stick cars when they came here they had no interest in driving a stick again.

chaofun

Ok, I already know that there are newer automatic transmissions that don't have torque converters and don't have clutch pedals, but the Z isn't one of those cars.

I'm not judging people for getting 5AT. I'm just saying there is some logical sense behind wanting manual transmission.

NismoKid

Here's my take on automatics. There are some people who buy a sports car for looks, right? Those people probably wouldn't want to bother with stick shift, possibly. The odds of finding a non-car enthusiast with a sports car in stick shift (where the same car can be found in auto) is slim from what I've seen. Now, not all automatic trans car owners are non-car enthusiasts, but the odds are higher you'll find non-enthusiasts in this category.

There are people (shimZ, Aggro_Al, and countless others) who are car enthusiasts, but find the manual trans not suitable for their needs. I'm a 6mt owner and if I lived in a city with steep roads, or lots of stop-and-go traffic, I for one wouldn't buy a 6mt.

Also, when I see an M3 with SMG trans, I usually assume for the most part that the person isn't much of a car enthusiast (the M3 is a flashy car, which also leads me to that reasoning), but I know some are, but few. I see many old ladies in south Florida with SMG M3 cabrios (I highly doubt they're car enthusiasts). However, when I see an M5 (only comes in stick shift), I know that the owner is a car enthusiast and I don't question it.

I disagree when someone said that the auto and manual trans give the same feeling. I just don't think that at all. I've driven an auto Z and I don't think they feel the same. Also, whoever said the horsepower is the same, is wrong. 5ATs have proven to make less hp stock on the dyno than 6mt. You also can't compare the Z's auto to an SMG, or F1 (semi-auto) since those have smaller, lighter components and rev match for you (the Z doesn't rev match for you).

Speaking about the Ferrari F1 trans, over 80% of 360 Modena and 575M owners get them in F1 transmissions. I guarantee you you'll find a greater % of car enthusiast in the stick shift Ferraris than in the F1 Ferraris (there are still some car enthusiasts with the F1, though, but not many percentage wise).

Aggro_Al, the Formula 1 cars don't allow automatic upshifting, downshifting, or launch control this season (they did last season). They're also talking about bringing the regular 6-speeds back, but I don't think it will happen.

lawnmore

"Personal Preference" I couldn't agree more,I got an 5AT "Z" because of the ridiculous LA traffic and I have all the fun of driving a great handeling car with no aggravation in heavy traffic. And then again if I feel like a 6speed I get in my Viper.

g35thanh

Lada350Z
-
ppl choose their transmission for their own reasons.why the **** should you care?

Does driving a stick make your d*ck bigger?

eazy

This thread is flame material. You take one stupid thread and then use it to make another stupid thread.

WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.

g35thanh

haha true

Aggro_Al

EXACTLY!! Just like you said, it is preference. The 5AT is not better than the 6MT and vice versa. I'am not trying to defend my choice of transmission to anyone nor bash the 6MT. It's my car not your car. You can dislike ATs all you want and say why your choice was better for you but, don't come and tell me my choice was wrong when there is no right or wrong answer and back it up with misconceptions just so you can inflate your ego. What I am trying to do is keep the basher from spreading misconceptions about the 5AT and maybe correct the misconceptions where I find them.

Yes, the 6MT in the higher RPMs is more efficient with hp. The 6MT will have 3%-5% more hp due to a direct mechanical connection and a higher gear. The 5AT is better at managing torque in the lower and mid ranges because it has a torque converter. It can multiply torque and vary it according to the circumstances. Driver skill can make up the margin of difference in either transmission.

The cost to manufacture an AT or a MT transmission varies from company to company and the difference isn't that much. In the case of the Z, the 5AT is less expensive than the 6MT. Where did you find that the 5AT is more?

"Real enthusiats all want manual transmissions ... ". Do you realize how stupid that sounds? I guess we can call all the F1 pro circuit drivers non enthusiats because they all drive automatics.

Could you tell me why I can't control the gears manually in the 5AT? The only difference I've found is that clutch is electro-hydraulic in the 5AT and the 6MT is mechanical.

AceJ587

It WAS flame material before you Editted This post^. Dipshlt You should have left it the way it was, would have been fun watching ppl tear you a few new ********.

AceJ587

EDITTED****

Aggro_Al

Why would you say that the 5AT is not one of the newer ATs? Are you even familiar with the work Nissan has put into the 5AT? Just like I said before, spreading misconceptions get us nowhere. The Nissan 5AT is one of the most advanced Adaptive Transmission Control type transmissions in the industry. It is comparable to the Porsche Tiptronic S, Mercedes-Benz AMG SpeedShift, Aston Martin TouchTronicII and the BMW Steptronic. That is some pretty good company. The Nissan 5AT is not a sequential type shifter but that type of transmission is still an auto.

If you want an MT then go get an MT. Don't come here and tell me that my AT is not as advanced as some of the other ATs and not back it up. Again, it's just ego boosting at the expense of others.

eazy

A bunch of automatic owners defending their purchase to the invisible internet gods. All the manual owners making fun of the girls. The never ending saga continues.

Nobody cares, this thread is stupid. Just stop it already.

jackwhale

As an aside…..

At the recent Shasta gathering of around 50+ Datsuns/Nissans, the fastest car on both days of autocross was a 240Z with a small Ford V8 and an automatic transmission. The car was built by the owner of Peak Performance in Eugene--a very knowledgeable and competitive guy [definitely not a poser in any way]

I said that I was very surprised about his choice of an auto trans, and we talked about the widespread impression that REAL sports cars are stick. I’m certainly more in that camp. He mentioned that he had tried both automatic and stick and was faster with the auto. On most road tracks, he was faster with a manual.

Thinking outside the stereotype 'box' and he was faster than everyone. Incidentally I recommend checking out his shop if you are close to Eugene, OR. Peak Performance.

The Brickyard Rat

iTrader: (1)

These cars are toys; no one needs a sport car.

For toys, the operative rule is: Whatever floats your boat.

Each person decides what floats his boat; no right/wrong answer.

You "gotta have manual" guys, give it a rest.

shimz350z

hahahhahhahhahhahha

that is exactly my point...i wish i had another z or supercar to play around with...manually

shimz350z

Are you referring us "autos" to girls?...then I guess that makes you a hermaphrodite. which is good because then you get the chip in with some great feedback.

After this comment and the one with "EAzY" "wasting bandwith" ...the saga will never end :icon 02: :icon 02: :icon 02: : :icon 02: icon02: :icon 02: :icon 02:

shimz350z

Darthvol

My thoughts exactly. I (and my wife and I, together) have owned a number of both auto and manual tranny vehicles of the sports, pickup, econobox and land barge varieties, including most recently an '02 Honda S2000 (all are 6spd man.) and an '03 Infiniti G35 coupe 6MT (I think a total of 11 manuals and 7 autos).

Cops are now everywhere, at least in TN ("We're just trying to raise reven.., uh, I mean, save lives"); a State Trooper is writing tickets on the tar and chip road which runs in front of our house out in BFE. The last several weeks before I traded in my 6MT G on the 5AT Z, I got caught in repeated traffic jams in and around Nashvegas due to wrecks, construction, rush hour, etc., and I got tired of having NO FUN with my manual, very little chance to, er, enjoy the full capabilities of my car due to said traffic jams and/or the glorified meter maids w/badges and Freudian issues handing out good driving awards, and plenty of cramps in my quads from the repeated stop-and-go driving (royal PITA!).

My pet peeve is the assumption that everyone who CHOOSES to drive an auto does so b/c they can't drive a manual; don't really know how to drive a sports car; and don't have a true appreciation for performance machines. This may be true for some, but not all or even most 5AT drivers.

As for me, I first thought I might miss my manual despite knowing I had made a good choice for my situation, but after living with the 5AT for about a month, I'm kicking just as much gluteus maximus at the stoplight and in the country twisties as I did w/my G, and the second generation manumatic (I drove a 5AT G35 coupe when they first came out in Nov., '02) shifts much quicker than the original version, or so it seems to me. To echo a term mentioned several times above, I think the benefits of a manual, at least in this particular car, are marginal at best. I am also in the beginning stages of modding my car so I can hopefully do away with any such "margin," including the weight deficit with which my roadster is burdened. While there are trade-offs, by necessity, I hope in the end to have the best balance between practical daily driver/interstate cruiser, and performance street machine.

For those who make different choices than I did (e.g., 6MT and/or coupe), more power to you; to each his own. Just please don't trash others for having a different preference than you did or assume a different choice than yours was based on driving incompetence. After all, if the subject is who the best driver is, the only way to measure is to go race with identically prepared cars (sort of like IROC, but w/Japanese cars, natch! ). I don't care which side of the fence anyone is on, and one purpose of this forum is to air out honest differences of opinion, but what pleasure does it give someone to trash someone else for making an almost identical, but slightly different, choice than they did?

BTW, I've e-mailed Michael Schumacher to tell him that some of you don't think he's a true "sports car enthusiast".