I'm getting sick of these ignorant "manual" enthusiasts posts.
#61
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Originally posted by eazy
shimz, you are a flaming troll. Congratulations!
" I'm getting sick of these ignorant "manual" enthusiasts posts."
I'm getting sick of you girls constantly worried about what everyone else thinks. You could have easily made a more productive thread. It would have required the application of intelligence though.
shimz, you are a flaming troll. Congratulations!
" I'm getting sick of these ignorant "manual" enthusiasts posts."
I'm getting sick of you girls constantly worried about what everyone else thinks. You could have easily made a more productive thread. It would have required the application of intelligence though.
I'm a flaming troll? (I feel I deserve my so called "orange belt"status under my avatar considering the amount of posts made) lol...if so what do I win? Can I get a cookie?
You said...
"I'm getting sick of you girls constantly worried about what everyone else thinks. "
Well said...but the word "girls" is a bit childish, we prefer "boys." At least it would be the correct gender.
You said...
"You could have easily made a more productive thread. It would have required the application of intelligence though."
I guess you beat yourself to the punchline...why reply to this thread at all?
For once, you almost wrote an intelligent response but it always seems to back fire right back at ya.
Last edited by shimz350z; 07-25-2004 at 06:45 PM.
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Originally posted by raidersfan
A sports car without a stick is like a Barbie doll with out ****. It just doesn't make sense.
A sports car without a stick is like a Barbie doll with out ****. It just doesn't make sense.
Main function of a car is......
A. To reach a destination.
B. To race.
C. To look pretty.
D. To pick up chicks.
E. To pick up barbie without ****.
F. All of the above.
G. None of the above.
Let me guess...you'd pick "E"?...only because it wouldn't make sense?
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Originally posted by Darthvol
No, Dave, you're missing his point. The "logic" is to try to find a way to have BOTH an enjoyable daily driver that you don't have to clutch when you can't use the performance traits of the car, but STILL have a good-looking, reliable sports car that can kick most competing butt when the time comes to step on it and rag it out, both in a straight line and in the twisties. The manumatic is a compromise, yes, but a small one. I haven't lost very much "connectedness" w/the car at all since switching to 5AT; contrary to what some folks apparently fear, the loss of my 6MT G hasn't resulted in the need to see my Dr. about a Viagra scrip.
BTW, to the extent some folks would argue that the BMW M3 w/SMG & paddles would be a "better" choice for people who want what I (and I think Dio) do out of a car, I probably w/n disagree (but I will admit the reliablility probs Bimmer has had w/the SMG tranny concern me a bit). For what I decided I wanted, however, the M3 would have to be a convt., which comes at a $20K price premium I simply did not want to pay right now with various home improvement projects ongoing or planned.
I'm trying to "save up" and plan for the new Skyline around '07 or '08, if they make it, and if they offer some sort of paddle shift or automanual. If not, I may consider the upcoming M4 w/SMG, assuming they iron out all the bugs by then.
P.S.: For those flaming the flamers and trolling the trolls, I think there is SOME good discussion content to this thread. On the other hand, if I'm completely wrong and the whole thread stinks, what does it say about someone who would take the time to read a whole thread (that stinks), and then also take the time to post (and say it stinks)? The phrase "too much free time" comes to mind. I'll bet most folks just clik on by to another thread if a given thread stinks.
No, Dave, you're missing his point. The "logic" is to try to find a way to have BOTH an enjoyable daily driver that you don't have to clutch when you can't use the performance traits of the car, but STILL have a good-looking, reliable sports car that can kick most competing butt when the time comes to step on it and rag it out, both in a straight line and in the twisties. The manumatic is a compromise, yes, but a small one. I haven't lost very much "connectedness" w/the car at all since switching to 5AT; contrary to what some folks apparently fear, the loss of my 6MT G hasn't resulted in the need to see my Dr. about a Viagra scrip.
BTW, to the extent some folks would argue that the BMW M3 w/SMG & paddles would be a "better" choice for people who want what I (and I think Dio) do out of a car, I probably w/n disagree (but I will admit the reliablility probs Bimmer has had w/the SMG tranny concern me a bit). For what I decided I wanted, however, the M3 would have to be a convt., which comes at a $20K price premium I simply did not want to pay right now with various home improvement projects ongoing or planned.
I'm trying to "save up" and plan for the new Skyline around '07 or '08, if they make it, and if they offer some sort of paddle shift or automanual. If not, I may consider the upcoming M4 w/SMG, assuming they iron out all the bugs by then.
P.S.: For those flaming the flamers and trolling the trolls, I think there is SOME good discussion content to this thread. On the other hand, if I'm completely wrong and the whole thread stinks, what does it say about someone who would take the time to read a whole thread (that stinks), and then also take the time to post (and say it stinks)? The phrase "too much free time" comes to mind. I'll bet most folks just clik on by to another thread if a given thread stinks.
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i think its fair to say that everyone manual or automatic, has at one point wish they had the other. i have a manual, and when you're backed up at 90/94 at 4:30 trying to get into the city, i would give anything to just relax and not worry about shifting. but on late nights where you get on the free way theres no feeling like slamming through the gears. either way peopel have their reasons, some for practicality, some just for fun. I went for this car as fun and threw practicality out the window. I had a ford explorer, and i always drove everywhere, could pick up and move anything, used it for work, and it was good in the snow. The Z isnt any of these things. And i gotta say I LIKE IT.
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How many times have you told someone about your Z and had the person ask ".....is it manual?" ?
Whenever I answer"....yes, 6 speed MT....", the person usually says someting like "....cool, I would never drive an automatic sports car....".
I know that automatic vehicles are better in congested traffic conditions because they are less frustrating and easier on your legs. I just don't see that as a strong enough argument though for the AT drivers. I don't want to upset a lot of people, but I just think getting a manual tranny is more masculine on a sports car than an automatic. If you love the car, tough it out and drive it the way it was intended to be driven. If you are buying a car based on what is best in your city and commute then buy a hybrid electric-gas vehicle or carpool.
I guess I am lucky because I bought my Z to drive as a second vehicle only. I couldn't bare to think of subjecting my beautiful car to the rigors of everyday traffic to and from work. I won't even drive it when it rains just because I don't like getting it dirty.
Whenever I answer"....yes, 6 speed MT....", the person usually says someting like "....cool, I would never drive an automatic sports car....".
I know that automatic vehicles are better in congested traffic conditions because they are less frustrating and easier on your legs. I just don't see that as a strong enough argument though for the AT drivers. I don't want to upset a lot of people, but I just think getting a manual tranny is more masculine on a sports car than an automatic. If you love the car, tough it out and drive it the way it was intended to be driven. If you are buying a car based on what is best in your city and commute then buy a hybrid electric-gas vehicle or carpool.
I guess I am lucky because I bought my Z to drive as a second vehicle only. I couldn't bare to think of subjecting my beautiful car to the rigors of everyday traffic to and from work. I won't even drive it when it rains just because I don't like getting it dirty.
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Originally posted by amf813
How many times have you told someone about your Z and had the person ask ".....is it manual?" ?
Whenever I answer"....yes, 6 speed MT....", the person usually says someting like "....cool, I would never drive an automatic sports car....".
I know that automatic vehicles are better in congested traffic conditions because they are less frustrating and easier on your legs. I just don't see that as a strong enough argument though for the AT drivers. I don't want to upset a lot of people, but I just think getting a manual tranny is more masculine on a sports car than an automatic. If you love the car, tough it out and drive it the way it was intended to be driven. If you are buying a car based on what is best in your city and commute then buy a hybrid electric-gas vehicle or carpool.
I guess I am lucky because I bought my Z to drive as a second vehicle only. I couldn't bare to think of subjecting my beautiful car to the rigors of everyday traffic to and from work. I won't even drive it when it rains just because I don't like getting it dirty.
How many times have you told someone about your Z and had the person ask ".....is it manual?" ?
Whenever I answer"....yes, 6 speed MT....", the person usually says someting like "....cool, I would never drive an automatic sports car....".
I know that automatic vehicles are better in congested traffic conditions because they are less frustrating and easier on your legs. I just don't see that as a strong enough argument though for the AT drivers. I don't want to upset a lot of people, but I just think getting a manual tranny is more masculine on a sports car than an automatic. If you love the car, tough it out and drive it the way it was intended to be driven. If you are buying a car based on what is best in your city and commute then buy a hybrid electric-gas vehicle or carpool.
I guess I am lucky because I bought my Z to drive as a second vehicle only. I couldn't bare to think of subjecting my beautiful car to the rigors of everyday traffic to and from work. I won't even drive it when it rains just because I don't like getting it dirty.
BTW, I noticed that your Z is a "second vehicle only." My wife and I do plan to get a weekend fun-type car in the next several years, and it will almost certainly be a manual (we can't agree on which one).
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Who said the manual was more expensive in the Z? Going to the NissanUSA webpage an Enthusiast with a manual is $29,010 and with an automatic is $29,980.
I've been driving a manual for 12 years now. I drove both the auto and manual Z's. The Z has a very good auto in my opinion, but I still prefer a manual. Saving 50 pounds and $970 in the process is just gravy.
I live in Columbus, Georgia now. Not much traffic and semi hilly. Now if I lived in congested Atlanta or a hilly town like San Francisco I'd get an automatic in a heartbeat.
Didn't Nissan have a manual with a hill climbing break assist? I seem to remember some Japanese manufacturer that did this. I remember the commercials, must have been more than 10 years ago. Sounds like a great idea still to me. I still fear getting stuck at a stoplight at the top of a steep hill with three cars behind me
I've been driving a manual for 12 years now. I drove both the auto and manual Z's. The Z has a very good auto in my opinion, but I still prefer a manual. Saving 50 pounds and $970 in the process is just gravy.
I live in Columbus, Georgia now. Not much traffic and semi hilly. Now if I lived in congested Atlanta or a hilly town like San Francisco I'd get an automatic in a heartbeat.
Didn't Nissan have a manual with a hill climbing break assist? I seem to remember some Japanese manufacturer that did this. I remember the commercials, must have been more than 10 years ago. Sounds like a great idea still to me. I still fear getting stuck at a stoplight at the top of a steep hill with three cars behind me
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Who cares??????!!!!
Personally I hate auto but I understand why someone would get an auto. Even on the Z.
Me, I love driving and I would never get an auto. MAnuals are just more fun to me. Traffic doesnt bother me either. I usually just keep it in first, keep my foot off the gas and let the torque of the VQ pull me along at 3mph
Auto = Practical.
Manual = more fun to drive.
Why does anyone care about one other people want in their cars?
I was reminded though that Mercedes offers none of its supercars here with a manual. ThAt just sucks. Whoever heard of a supercar with an auto trans????? The SLR is all supercar. I cant believe they didnt offer it in manual as well. What a crime.
Personally I hate auto but I understand why someone would get an auto. Even on the Z.
Me, I love driving and I would never get an auto. MAnuals are just more fun to me. Traffic doesnt bother me either. I usually just keep it in first, keep my foot off the gas and let the torque of the VQ pull me along at 3mph
Auto = Practical.
Manual = more fun to drive.
Why does anyone care about one other people want in their cars?
I was reminded though that Mercedes offers none of its supercars here with a manual. ThAt just sucks. Whoever heard of a supercar with an auto trans????? The SLR is all supercar. I cant believe they didnt offer it in manual as well. What a crime.
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5AT is only available in the US. You can't buy a 350Z with AT anywhere else in the world. That said, I think it is stupid to buy a sports/performance car such as 350Z, S2K, M3 etc. with AT ... just doesn't make sense to me. If it is traffic you want to deal with buy a Prius / Insight and you'll save a wad of cash on gas alone, perhaps, enough to buy a second weekend/track car.
Heh, everytime I hear M3 auto go down the street I chase that person down and beat them to a pulp.
Heh, everytime I hear M3 auto go down the street I chase that person down and beat them to a pulp.
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Originally posted by nsxpower
Heh, everytime I hear M3 auto go down the street I chase that person down and beat them to a pulp.
Heh, everytime I hear M3 auto go down the street I chase that person down and beat them to a pulp.
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blah blah blah. Justify your purchase of an auto any way you want.
The z is a sports car meant for track driving. Manual transmissions almost always yield better lap times than autos (very few use autos ,if any, with Z cars around a track.) In some Z cars the auto version was almost a half of a second slower in the 1/4. Take the z32tt for example. The auto got different cams, different size turbos and different gear ratio. Which is why they were never as fast (stock vs stock) against a 5spd.
That being said...drive your autos bitchboys (relax, only kidding)
The z is a sports car meant for track driving. Manual transmissions almost always yield better lap times than autos (very few use autos ,if any, with Z cars around a track.) In some Z cars the auto version was almost a half of a second slower in the 1/4. Take the z32tt for example. The auto got different cams, different size turbos and different gear ratio. Which is why they were never as fast (stock vs stock) against a 5spd.
That being said...drive your autos bitchboys (relax, only kidding)
Last edited by Dissolved; 07-26-2004 at 06:42 AM.
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Originally posted by DIO
Let me see anyone here who owns a manual sit in 5 hours of 2 mph traffic. Lets see how quickly you tire of your MT.
Let me see anyone here who owns a manual sit in 5 hours of 2 mph traffic. Lets see how quickly you tire of your MT.
Originally posted by Aggro_Al
I was one of those that used to think that "real sports cars" had to be manuals.
I was one of those that used to think that "real sports cars" had to be manuals.
Originally posted by Aggro_Al
As for racing, almost all professional road and track racers use automatic transmissions.
As for racing, almost all professional road and track racers use automatic transmissions.
Originally posted by roydiculous
I also bounce the stick up and down (when you press it go to reverse). One of these days I am going to break teh spring.
I also bounce the stick up and down (when you press it go to reverse). One of these days I am going to break teh spring.
This thread is very entertaining. If the auto was a 6-speed, it would be a lot more enticing to me. However, the number of gear ratios available is just more useful for hustling the car around a track. It being manual also keeps me from worrying that my sister or most people are going to ask to drive it. Heheheh.
I am glad that people buy the car in auto though. It makes more money for Nissan and that means we get more Z cars in the future. Why someone would complain about buying the different trannies is beyond me. I mean, Nissan made the cars first, then shipped them to the US. Then people buy what they have offered.
Did you know that something like 75% of C5 Corvettes are autos? The first year they were out, there were only 28% manual. It was actually an option you had to pay more for.
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I was looking at getting a C5 Vette a couple of years ago. I couldn't believe they were mostly autos and the stick was a $1000 option.
I test drove a couple of used C5 manuals. Gawd those were fun. You want to talk about torque!
I test drove a couple of used C5 manuals. Gawd those were fun. You want to talk about torque!
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Originally posted by nsxpower
5AT is only available in the US. You can't buy a 350Z with AT anywhere else in the world. That said, I think it is stupid to buy a sports/performance car such as 350Z, S2K, M3 etc. with AT ... just doesn't make sense to me. If it is traffic you want to deal with buy a Prius / Insight and you'll save a wad of cash on gas alone, perhaps, enough to buy a second weekend/track car.
Heh, everytime I hear M3 auto go down the street I chase that person down and beat them to a pulp.
5AT is only available in the US. You can't buy a 350Z with AT anywhere else in the world. That said, I think it is stupid to buy a sports/performance car such as 350Z, S2K, M3 etc. with AT ... just doesn't make sense to me. If it is traffic you want to deal with buy a Prius / Insight and you'll save a wad of cash on gas alone, perhaps, enough to buy a second weekend/track car.
Heh, everytime I hear M3 auto go down the street I chase that person down and beat them to a pulp.
Last edited by Skrill; 07-26-2004 at 08:24 AM.
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Who said the manual was more expensive in the Z? Going to the NissanUSA webpage an Enthusiast with a manual is $29,010 and with an automatic is $29,980.
Touring 6spd: $33,940
Touring 5spd: $32,350
Go figure! Nissan marketing at work.
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Originally posted by Skrill
I want to dispel this (wrong-headed) idea that sequentials are automatics.
Sequentials are not automatics. Seguentials use manual gearboxes mated to hydrallic-actuated clutches and shifters (that are computer controlled). For the most part -- the clutches and shifters are traditional as well -- they are just controlled by a computer. My M3 SMGII had the same gearbox -- right down to the part number -- as the 6MT version. There is no torque converter on a sequential. Sequentials offer all the responsiveness of a regual 6MT, but without loosing time shifting or distracting the driver from his shifting. I can tell you from experience that sequentials truly allow the driver to focus on the line.
Automatics are NOT the equivalent of Sequentials and vice versa. Automatics ARE smoother shifting than sequentials, and in that respect better than sequentials (which tend to be abrupt and jerky when used in town -- as opposed to on the track). But as a former SMG owner who tracked his M3 regularly -- I can tell you that there is nothing better than driving a sequential on the track. I can also tell you that it is no automatic. BTW, the BMW SMG will NOT upshift at the rev-limiter (ask me how I know).
Personally -- I do think it is wrong to saddle a high-performance car with an slushbox. But hey -- if you have one -- enjoy it. Given the choice between MT and auto -- I would go MT everytime. But they offered a sequential, I would jump on it.
BTW -- the DB9 and 911 are traditional autos (not sequentials).
I want to dispel this (wrong-headed) idea that sequentials are automatics.
Sequentials are not automatics. Seguentials use manual gearboxes mated to hydrallic-actuated clutches and shifters (that are computer controlled). For the most part -- the clutches and shifters are traditional as well -- they are just controlled by a computer. My M3 SMGII had the same gearbox -- right down to the part number -- as the 6MT version. There is no torque converter on a sequential. Sequentials offer all the responsiveness of a regual 6MT, but without loosing time shifting or distracting the driver from his shifting. I can tell you from experience that sequentials truly allow the driver to focus on the line.
Automatics are NOT the equivalent of Sequentials and vice versa. Automatics ARE smoother shifting than sequentials, and in that respect better than sequentials (which tend to be abrupt and jerky when used in town -- as opposed to on the track). But as a former SMG owner who tracked his M3 regularly -- I can tell you that there is nothing better than driving a sequential on the track. I can also tell you that it is no automatic. BTW, the BMW SMG will NOT upshift at the rev-limiter (ask me how I know).
Personally -- I do think it is wrong to saddle a high-performance car with an slushbox. But hey -- if you have one -- enjoy it. Given the choice between MT and auto -- I would go MT everytime. But they offered a sequential, I would jump on it.
BTW -- the DB9 and 911 are traditional autos (not sequentials).
You are also correct that the SMG uses the same gearbox that the regular manual uses. It uses the same gear cluster and the same pressure/friction plates in the clutch like a manual. Even though they use the same parts, the whole system is automated.
Here is a link to BMW's SMG Dealer Manual: (It's pretty good reading for anyone interested in the SMG)
http://www.m3smg.com/files/smgmanual.pdf
In BMW's own manual that they give to dealers nowhere do they call the Sequential M Gearbox (SMG) a manual transmission. In BMW's own dealer manual they call it a "Fully Automatic" Manual Gearbox Transmission with active manual shifting. They describe the SMGII as having all the capabilities of an automatic with active manual shifting without using a torque converter. Instead of a torque converter, the SMG uses the same inner workings of a manual gearbox and automates it using electronics and computers. BWM calls their own SMG fully automatic.
If I read the manual wrong, please let me know.
Last edited by Aggro_Al; 07-26-2004 at 10:35 AM.
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Originally posted by Aggro_Al
Also, from Nissan's website.
Touring 6spd: $33,940
Touring 5spd: $32,350
Go figure! Nissan marketing at work.
Also, from Nissan's website.
Touring 6spd: $33,940
Touring 5spd: $32,350
Go figure! Nissan marketing at work.
Originally posted by Ronny
Automatic is optional and extra cost on an Enthusiast.
Manual is optional and extra cost on a Touring.
Automatic is optional and extra cost on an Enthusiast.
Manual is optional and extra cost on a Touring.