I'm considering trading in my S2000 for a 350z when my lease is up (paid too much and need better visibility of the instrument cluster and out the windshield, being 5'11"). The best "bang for the buck" in my particular situation appears to be the Ethusiast model, as I'm thinking the lack of VDC and 18" wheels from the Performance model is a good tradeoff for the lower cost.

While I'd agree that VDC is usefull in emergency situations and inclimate weather, I wonder if I'd really "miss" such a feature, and how often I'd turn it off if I did have it. (Keep in mind, this is coming from a driver of an S2K, which has no traction control or computer intervention, and is incredibly fun to drive hard as-is, IMO).

I'd be interested in hearing current 350z owner's opinions (or those that have test-driven...) on the VDC feature -- whether you use it or not, whether is detracts from the driving enjoyment, if you think it's worth the extra cost, etc. I'll definitely form my own opinion once local dealers get more on the lot and allow test drives, but I'd be curious to hear what others have to offer.

Please note in your replies, however, that the Touring and Track models are NOT in consideration -- for that price, I'll refinance the balloon amount of my lease and keep the S2K. In addition, the Base model does not have features I require (Xenon HIDs, LSD). I'm mainly trying to determine if the Ethusiast model is "good enough", given my priorities. (The Performance model is a tougher decision, as I consider is almost a wash price/performce-wise with my current situation).

Opinions appreciated,
Audball

 

I do track my S2000, and will do the same with the 350z (not competitively, just for fun/learning - like D.E. track days. And don't get me started about how the 350z offers "much more" in the way of performance, as that's simply not true -- wanna race and have me prove it to you? ). My guess is that most good track drivers would turn the VDC off, at least on a dry track -- this is what I'm trying to guage/determine, though.

I highly doubt the 18" wheels would improve lap times -- although there should be less tire sidewall flex, there is greater unsprung weight with the larger tire/wheel combo (tread with is the same between the models, I think, as only the Track model has a staggered setup). I'd imagine that the tire compounds make more of a difference. Nissan's website hints at better tires on the Performance model, but does anybody know what rating tires come on both models?

As for the Nav system, the jury's still out on that one... I should be able to get an aftermarket system installed for cheaper than $2k. Hmmm... but that pricepoint does make me wonder whether VDC is simply another computer on the car, and not any mechanical changes. (If it's more than that, then the $2k price difference between the Ethusiast and Performance represents a good value).

Thanks for the responses thus far. Anybody else feel free to chime in!

 

I'm moving this thread to general and deleting the second one that was started.

Ethan

 

There are a couple of things I like about the Enthusiast I've purchased that are worth mentioning. First, I think that the 17" wheels look great, and provide a slightly better ride than the lower-profile 18's. Second, I've found through pushing the limits of my car that TCS is actually less fun when it's on, even though it's saved my rear a couple of times in the wet. I would think that VDC would provide a similar loss in "feel," but would of course increase your margin of safety during maneuvers that you may not have tried before. Lastly, I honestly believe that from the standpoint of "bang for your buck," that the Enthusiast has no equal. With that being said though, every trim line is a matter of preference, and those preferences belong to you.

Good luck with your choice. I'm sure you'll appreciate the value and of course, performance of a Z, no matter what the trim.

 

People who know how to drive this car correctly will receive lower times on a racetrack with VDC OFF. IMO, VDC is only good for saving an unexperienced driver.

 

quote audball:

"I highly doubt the 18" wheels would improve lap times -- although there should be less tire sidewall flex, there is greater unsprung weight with the larger tire/wheel combo (tread with is the same between the models, I think, as only the Track model has a staggered setup). I'd imagine that the tire compounds make more of a difference. Nissan's website hints at better tires on the Performance model, but does anybody know what rating tires come on both models?"

From thread on Technical forum here:

Tire sizes: (All tires are Bridgestone RE040 rated at 140AA)
Tire data from Bridgestone website.

Enthusiast: 225/50WR17F 235/50WR17R
Performance: 225/45WR18F 245/45WR18R

Tire/wheel total unsprung weights:

Enthusiast: 2x(28lbs + 29lbs) + 4x(23.8lbs) = 209.2 lbs
Performance: 2x(25lbs + 27lbs) + 4x(26.6lbs) = 210.4 lbs

For comparison, the Track wheels/tires weigh only 178 lbs total, offset of course by the bigger Brembos, which are 10.2 lbs total per car heavier than the stock Nissan rotors/calipers.

I think that the difference between unsprung weights of the 17" and 18" tire/wheels is negligible.

 

Thanks for the info, ChinaClipper! Doing a search of matching tires (ultra-high performance, max performance, W, Y, Z rated, all manufacturers) at the TireRack website shows that there are significantly more tire selections for the 18" wheels.

17" fronts - 2 matches
17" rears - 2 matches
18" fronts - 5 matches
18" rears - 9 matches

That makes my decision tougher... Crud.

Anybody know about tire availability for R compounds in the aforementioned sizes? (Didn't see any Rs on TireRack...)

 

Hehehe... I love reading these comments here in this thread and others that flame the VDC as being a component for "inexperienced" or "weak" drivers. Like everyone one here is a licensed SCCA Pro that can take down PD Cunningham or Randy Probst in a Ford Escort.

VDC in a nutshell is a tool to control the uncontrollable in everyday driving. With all of the ******* SUVs/Minivans on the road today, you never know when **** could happen that would cause you to lose control of your car.

Example: You're hauling *** through a decreasing, right-hand sweeper. An SUV on a sidestreet "sees" you coming and decides to pull out right in front of you at the very last second. You're deep into the throttle, deep into the turn and as an experienced driver you KNOW what happens if you get off the throttle or lay on the brakes here. You have NO CHOICE and have to make a decision quickly. VDC can and will help you regain control of the car when the back end starts to come around by use of selective braking to individual wheels and cutting back on the throttle.

Get it? Leave it on for everyday, going to the grocery store, driving to work trips. Pretty f**king simple and it doesn't hurt to have that bit of insurance. When you want to deliberately bring the tail around and have fun, run at the track or auto-x, turn it off. That's why the goddamned button is there.

BTW, Performance is really the best bang for the buck, IMO. VDC, 18s and the PSI monitor seem well worth the money to me over the Enthusiast. I mean, what is it, like $1500?

 

Preach on brotha Droid!

Michael.

 

Amen droidekaus!

 

Droidekus, took the words out of my mouth. Wish I had gone for Performance over touring...

 

Just to clear this as well the touring, performance and track models have VDC and TCS. When you turn off the VDC you also loose the TCS.

Now the enthusiast only has TCS.

That said, I have touring and find the VDC quite uesful in everyday driving and keeping out of trouble in traffic and such. I think in bad weather it is also extremely useful.

Now for performance driving there is just no way to have fun and maximize this car's potential with the VDC or TCS on. It will not allow hardly any wheel slip or rear end slide out. Plain and simple for driving hard and on the track the VDC and TCS get turned off.

my $0.02

 

I didn't look up the exact tire sizes, but overall you'll have more options to run R-tires in the 17" size than the 18" size. In 17", you could run either Kumho V700 Victoracer or Ecstas and Hoosiers (A3S03 and R3S03). I'm not too familiar with Toyo RA-1's or Yokohama A032's, but I do know there are a few 17" sizes.

For 18" sizes, you can get the Hoosiers, Kumho V700 Ecsta, and the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (these are also available in 17" sizes IIRC). The main problem with the 18" sizes is that the Kumhos and Michelins are only available in 225's or 265's. 225's seem a bit small IMO, and 265 may be overstuffing it on a 8"/8.5" rim. I think I'd rather run something in the 245 range, which means you're stuck with Hoosiers (bring $$$)

On the other hand, if you're getting R-tires, that means you'll have another set of rims. For track events, there aren't any restrictions on wheel size (unlike SCCA Solo2 stock rules, which require stock sized wheels). In that case, you can get any size rim that fits and run whichever tire you want.

 

I find the VDC a little confusing. I only have a 250miles on the car so I can't really goose the rpm to kick out the rear end while cornering yet. I am in the process of learning the envelope, i.e., becoming familiar with how the car behaves as it approaches breaking loose and how it acts after it lets go.

I have noticed that with the vdc on I get a vague squirm from the car as I hit the break point. The car maintains it manners, but I get an uncomfortable feeling as the vdc engages and disengages. I get the feeling that someone else is controlling the car, a little spooky. The feel is kind of like cornering with a few patches of water on the ground. The car carves a part of the corner, and then kind of floats when the vdc kicks in and then carves again. Very weird.

I suppose that if I would givie it a little more throttle at this point, the rear would come out and all would be fine. I obviously need more experience behind the wheel of this car.

There is good news and bad news. The good news, the vdc may takeover and saves you when you hit a patch on the road. The bad news is, the vdc may takeover and save you when you when you don't want it to.

The bottom line, the car has two personalities, one without the VDC or the one with the VDC. Make sure you know if the vdc is on or off when you push the limits as you might be surprized as the VDC takes over.

 

I like it. I also like the OFF button.


Enforcer

 

I spun my 95 Mustang GT about 6 monhts ago. Not Fun!! I was luckey that no one hit me but it sure as hell made me uncomfotable. I had almost spun it a few years before. It doesn't take much if there is any water on the road.

The reason I didn't even consider the enthusiast was because it didn't have VDC. There is no way I want to drive a 287 hp rear wheel drive car as a daily driver without the backup that VDC gives.

Plus, I can turn it off if I truely have the need.

 

I've been driving many twisty mountain roads, thinking I was going pretty fast, but I've only had the VDC activiate a single time. I was going to say that as long as you don't push the car to the limit during normal driving, VDC probably wouldn't help very much. However, after hearing some of your stories, I guess I am just not driving fast enough . I'm going to my first autoX this Sunday, so hopefully that will give me a chance to learn the limits at a relatively low, safe, speed. I'll probably run a lap with VDC on and a lap with it off to compare how the car feels.

I have the performance model, mainly because I like the 18" wheels and tire pressere monitor. If neither of those is of interest, then really the only other addition over the enthusiast is the VDC, and if you are already used to driving with out it, perhaps the Enthusiast is the best choice.

One thing about the 18" wheels is that they make the stock brakes look pretty dang small. Small enough that I almost wish I got the track model. So, if you are unsure what you want, you may want to splurge and get the extra features so you don't have any regrets later.

-D'oh!

 

This car is the most fun at its limits, and since the limits are pretty high, with VDC on you can do it safely (safer?), ESPECIALLY thru the twisties. Bad weather driving is another plus.

Turn it off for stoplight races.

The 18's are nicer and easier to clean.

 

I assume the "Slip" light comes one with VDC activation as it does with TCS activation? I've only had the light go on a few times so far in my Touring. Once or twice intentionally when I stepped on it coming out of a turn.

I've driven in fairly hard rain a few times now and the car always felt very good.

I'm pretty glad I have them. They're good backup, if I want to go crazy, I'll turn them off.