would you rather a 350z or this...
10-22-2002, 07:38 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: would you rather a 350z or this...
Originally posted by reggi
I dont think that this is true because when you read all of this bad stuff on-line, your hearing ONLY from people who have had problems. Every car model has a couple of cars who have problems, so when you go on-line and read about the problems, your hearing only from the people who had problems.
One other thing is that i dont know how these people drive there car. I have seen ferraris driven like crazy when they were just purchased. So if that owner doesent know how to treat the car, then he cant complain about problems.
I think for someone getting a daily driver, a bmw 3 searies is more appealing (and better) than a nissan altima (not that i have anything against that car, i happen to love it).
I dont think that this is true because when you read all of this bad stuff on-line, your hearing ONLY from people who have had problems. Every car model has a couple of cars who have problems, so when you go on-line and read about the problems, your hearing only from the people who had problems.
One other thing is that i dont know how these people drive there car. I have seen ferraris driven like crazy when they were just purchased. So if that owner doesent know how to treat the car, then he cant complain about problems.
I think for someone getting a daily driver, a bmw 3 searies is more appealing (and better) than a nissan altima (not that i have anything against that car, i happen to love it).
330, a great sedan with good handling and room for 4. No exclusivity at all, the 4 doors are grocery getters for moms in upscale sub and ex urban neighborhoods. The coupe, better suspension and handling, 3.0 liter I6, not 3.2 like the M3. Nice car, but they are everywhere too and their power is 225hp w/5spd 1.1 5th gear. No overdrive on the MT makes up some against a Z, but tests indicate the 330s will be about a second slower in 0-60 and 1/4 mile.
I road tested the 330iC and came away disappointed with the road feel of the car, except for the rear wheel drive, but it wasn't fun to drive and the interior, even w/leather is very plain. A downer because it was my next choice after the M3 flopped. I went, gasp, to the Acura store and tested an RSX AT. It was a lot more fun than the 330. I decided to buy an S Type w/6spd, $15,000 less than 330 coupe. My wife found out about the preorder 350Z program, ordered it the next day. I love it, fast, fun, great looks, a real 2 seat sports without moonroof, T-Tops just like my 72 240Z. Sold! not sorry, love the car, fast as hell and a 2 seater.
I still like BMWs, but I wouldn't buy one with the lackluster dealer system in the U.S. BMW doesn't seem to be hungry any more, maybe the Z4 will spice up their line and with all the competition coming on, they'll get some models I would be pleased to own.
Boomer--my opinion, use it or lose it, I don't care.
10-23-2002, 05:36 AM
#69
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Originally posted by Slexis200
Besides speed, the quality in the M3 is about 20X higher. Anyone who disagrees is lying.
Besides speed, the quality in the M3 is about 20X higher. Anyone who disagrees is lying.
10-23-2002, 08:48 AM
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I would take the Bimmer over the Z....again, both great cars but I have a fixation w/ German cars. From personal experience (I've had 2 VW's) they build better cars. Having said that, I think that blue is quite possibly the most putrid color ever!!
10-23-2002, 09:17 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: would you rather a 350z or this...
Originally posted by Boomer
Reggi, the site I got the info from has been posted in this forum several times, do a search. 97 reported engine failures out of 600 +M3s equaled a 13% failure rate! BMW has told owners their computers indicated they were over-revved. OK,what about the SMG that had failures? The SMG handles all revving and there still were failures with that transmission. It appears to me BMW has exceeded the capacities of the inline 6 they have used since the 60's, example: the failure of the BMWs 6s to compete with Porsche's flat 6 in the Touring or IMSA or whatever the race series is called, this year. So BMW puts in a V8, when the team manager was asked why the V8? He said the 6 cylinder has reached the peak of its capacity to put out more power, so we went with the V8. I think BMW M3s have put too much pressure on the inline 6 to gain power and have sacrificed reliability. I couldn't justify to myself the purchase of an M3 with all the negative info about it.
330, a great sedan with good handling and room for 4. No exclusivity at all, the 4 doors are grocery getters for moms in upscale sub and ex urban neighborhoods. The coupe, better suspension and handling, 3.0 liter I6, not 3.2 like the M3. Nice car, but they are everywhere too and their power is 225hp w/5spd 1.1 5th gear. No overdrive on the MT makes up some against a Z, but tests indicate the 330s will be about a second slower in 0-60 and 1/4 mile.
I road tested the 330iC and came away disappointed with the road feel of the car, except for the rear wheel drive, but it wasn't fun to drive and the interior, even w/leather is very plain. A downer because it was my next choice after the M3 flopped. I went, gasp, to the Acura store and tested an RSX AT. It was a lot more fun than the 330. I decided to buy an S Type w/6spd, $15,000 less than 330 coupe. My wife found out about the preorder 350Z program, ordered it the next day. I love it, fast, fun, great looks, a real 2 seat sports without moonroof, T-Tops just like my 72 240Z. Sold! not sorry, love the car, fast as hell and a 2 seater.
I still like BMWs, but I wouldn't buy one with the lackluster dealer system in the U.S. BMW doesn't seem to be hungry any more, maybe the Z4 will spice up their line and with all the competition coming on, they'll get some models I would be pleased to own.
Boomer--my opinion, use it or lose it, I don't care.
Reggi, the site I got the info from has been posted in this forum several times, do a search. 97 reported engine failures out of 600 +M3s equaled a 13% failure rate! BMW has told owners their computers indicated they were over-revved. OK,what about the SMG that had failures? The SMG handles all revving and there still were failures with that transmission. It appears to me BMW has exceeded the capacities of the inline 6 they have used since the 60's, example: the failure of the BMWs 6s to compete with Porsche's flat 6 in the Touring or IMSA or whatever the race series is called, this year. So BMW puts in a V8, when the team manager was asked why the V8? He said the 6 cylinder has reached the peak of its capacity to put out more power, so we went with the V8. I think BMW M3s have put too much pressure on the inline 6 to gain power and have sacrificed reliability. I couldn't justify to myself the purchase of an M3 with all the negative info about it.
330, a great sedan with good handling and room for 4. No exclusivity at all, the 4 doors are grocery getters for moms in upscale sub and ex urban neighborhoods. The coupe, better suspension and handling, 3.0 liter I6, not 3.2 like the M3. Nice car, but they are everywhere too and their power is 225hp w/5spd 1.1 5th gear. No overdrive on the MT makes up some against a Z, but tests indicate the 330s will be about a second slower in 0-60 and 1/4 mile.
I road tested the 330iC and came away disappointed with the road feel of the car, except for the rear wheel drive, but it wasn't fun to drive and the interior, even w/leather is very plain. A downer because it was my next choice after the M3 flopped. I went, gasp, to the Acura store and tested an RSX AT. It was a lot more fun than the 330. I decided to buy an S Type w/6spd, $15,000 less than 330 coupe. My wife found out about the preorder 350Z program, ordered it the next day. I love it, fast, fun, great looks, a real 2 seat sports without moonroof, T-Tops just like my 72 240Z. Sold! not sorry, love the car, fast as hell and a 2 seater.
I still like BMWs, but I wouldn't buy one with the lackluster dealer system in the U.S. BMW doesn't seem to be hungry any more, maybe the Z4 will spice up their line and with all the competition coming on, they'll get some models I would be pleased to own.
Boomer--my opinion, use it or lose it, I don't care.
10-23-2002, 10:27 AM
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well....my opinion. i have never been envious of an M3 driver, but I have been of a Z car (new and previous generations).
M3 is a great car (if you get a good one, doesn't blow engine, relatively little trouble, no idle stalling etc), but as much as BMW would like to make everyone beleive(which they have been very successful in doing) that it is a true sports car, in fact it is a great GT car with sports car aspirations. For instance, the boxster (which is in teh same price league as an M3), may be slower than an M3, but an M3 will NEVER be more of a sports car....sports coupe i'll buy. The Z, while based on some corporate parts bin parts is from beginning to end (in devleopment and actual delivery) a sports car with a single purpose....to provide the best possible combination of power, handling, pinanche, and looks....the M3 starts from sedan/coupe (of regular 3 series) and becomes a sports coupe...
Coming from a sports SEDAN driver, if you are only going to have one car, get the M3 as it is one hell of a car and very parctical. IF you are looking for a single purpose car, get the Z.
M3 is a great car (if you get a good one, doesn't blow engine, relatively little trouble, no idle stalling etc), but as much as BMW would like to make everyone beleive(which they have been very successful in doing) that it is a true sports car, in fact it is a great GT car with sports car aspirations. For instance, the boxster (which is in teh same price league as an M3), may be slower than an M3, but an M3 will NEVER be more of a sports car....sports coupe i'll buy. The Z, while based on some corporate parts bin parts is from beginning to end (in devleopment and actual delivery) a sports car with a single purpose....to provide the best possible combination of power, handling, pinanche, and looks....the M3 starts from sedan/coupe (of regular 3 series) and becomes a sports coupe...
Coming from a sports SEDAN driver, if you are only going to have one car, get the M3 as it is one hell of a car and very parctical. IF you are looking for a single purpose car, get the Z.
10-23-2002, 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Zcarfan_2K1S4Guy
The Z, while based on some corporate parts bin parts is from beginning to end (in devleopment and actual delivery) a sports car with a single purpose....to provide the best possible combination of power, handling, pinanche, and looks....the M3 starts from sedan/coupe (of regular 3 series) and becomes a sports coupe...
The Z, while based on some corporate parts bin parts is from beginning to end (in devleopment and actual delivery) a sports car with a single purpose....to provide the best possible combination of power, handling, pinanche, and looks....the M3 starts from sedan/coupe (of regular 3 series) and becomes a sports coupe...
Click here for the 350Z review on PistonHeads
and here are some quote from that review
...Sadly, this is not a sports car; it's a sports tourer. It's at home cruising along the highways, giving you all the punch you need to blast past traffic with ease...
...Nissan have some work to do in the marketing department though. Every non-enthusiast I showed the car to, asked if it would compete with the Hyundai Coupe or the Toyota Celica. It'll take some work to restore the reputation of the Z Car...
10-23-2002, 12:55 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: would you rather a 350z or this...
Originally posted by reggi
i dont think that a bmw 3, and an rsx are in the same catagory. They are different cars, made for different reasons. The bmw is more luxury, the rsx is more sport.
i dont think that a bmw 3, and an rsx are in the same catagory. They are different cars, made for different reasons. The bmw is more luxury, the rsx is more sport.
That's my point, I didn't want a luxury car or I would have bought a Lexus. I have a 99 Maxima to haul more than 2 people or groceries, I don't need another 4 seater. I know the RSX-S is supposed to be a 4 seater, but with me as driver, nobody except a 2 year old can sit behind me.
The RSX-S was as close to a sports car I could find that I fit in. It had more room for me than a 330, which was my next pick, and it was more fun to drive than the 330, regardless of price or category. By this time, the M3 was not a consideration.
Lucky for me the 350Z showed up and, after then any 3 series BMW was not a player. I am pleased with my decision to buy a 2 seater sports car, especially the 350 Z because I owned the original Z, the 240, for 7 years. It was a 1972 model. The RSX-S was only a car I could drive for fun. The Z is already Lots more fun.
10-23-2002, 01:38 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: would you rather a 350z or this...
Originally posted by Boomer
That's my point, I didn't want a luxury car or I would have bought a Lexus. I have a 99 Maxima to haul more than 2 people or groceries, I don't need another 4 seater. I know the RSX-S is supposed to be a 4 seater, but with me as driver, nobody except a 2 year old can sit behind me.
The RSX-S was as close to a sports car I could find that I fit in. It had more room for me than a 330, which was my next pick, and it was more fun to drive than the 330, regardless of price or category. By this time, the M3 was not a consideration.
Lucky for me the 350Z showed up and, after then any 3 series BMW was not a player. I am pleased with my decision to buy a 2 seater sports car, especially the 350 Z because I owned the original Z, the 240, for 7 years. It was a 1972 model. The RSX-S was only a car I could drive for fun. The Z is already Lots more fun.
That's my point, I didn't want a luxury car or I would have bought a Lexus. I have a 99 Maxima to haul more than 2 people or groceries, I don't need another 4 seater. I know the RSX-S is supposed to be a 4 seater, but with me as driver, nobody except a 2 year old can sit behind me.
The RSX-S was as close to a sports car I could find that I fit in. It had more room for me than a 330, which was my next pick, and it was more fun to drive than the 330, regardless of price or category. By this time, the M3 was not a consideration.
Lucky for me the 350Z showed up and, after then any 3 series BMW was not a player. I am pleased with my decision to buy a 2 seater sports car, especially the 350 Z because I owned the original Z, the 240, for 7 years. It was a 1972 model. The RSX-S was only a car I could drive for fun. The Z is already Lots more fun.
10-23-2002, 03:37 PM
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Not a fair comparison really.
If they were in the same class that would be one thing, these cars aren't really comparable. If you made the reference to a 30k Beamer, I woudl take the Z anyday,,,,compared to the M3, M5 or Z8...the Beamer all day every day
--wes
If they were in the same class that would be one thing, these cars aren't really comparable. If you made the reference to a 30k Beamer, I woudl take the Z anyday,,,,compared to the M3, M5 or Z8...the Beamer all day every day
--wes
10-23-2002, 05:11 PM
#77
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Originally posted by tifosi
please don't flame me, but i think you should read this review of the 350Z from PistonHeads
Click here for the 350Z review on PistonHeads
and here are some quote from that review
please don't flame me, but i think you should read this review of the 350Z from PistonHeads
Click here for the 350Z review on PistonHeads
and here are some quote from that review
Also, I have a feeling this review wasn't pushing the car to its limits b/c he stated that the he had the VDC on. Maybe he wasn't a confident driver?
Oh well, who cares, I just think you should read more than one review before make your 5th post on the board saying the Z isn't a sports car.
peace out.
10-23-2002, 05:33 PM
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not to flame but....
that article is a bad piece of automotive writing if I ever saw one. He mentions the S2000 as its direct competitor, which EVERYONE in the world will agree is a sports car, yet somehow the Z itself is not a sports car....
even so, he says you see where nissan intends to go with this care then "sadly it's a sports tourer"....meaning, sadly its not what it set out to be...which means he agrees that it set out to be a sports car...and therein lies a contradiction...
If one is to argue taht car is GT, a sports car etc...one must know how to classify. I propose that a sports car is defined by its INTENT....how its was designed, what the the intent of the car is and how it is to be driven, and its role in its own life.
that being said, we need to remind ourselves that despite speed, track times acceleration numbers, performance etc....cars like the mazda miata are more of a "true sports car" then any M3, M5 etc. The only TRUE sports cars BMW currenlty builds are the Z8, and Z3(M roadster/coupe). Note while they share parts in comon with 3 series, and M5's etc....their design intent was CLEARLY different.
Just my 2 cents.
that article is a bad piece of automotive writing if I ever saw one. He mentions the S2000 as its direct competitor, which EVERYONE in the world will agree is a sports car, yet somehow the Z itself is not a sports car....
even so, he says you see where nissan intends to go with this care then "sadly it's a sports tourer"....meaning, sadly its not what it set out to be...which means he agrees that it set out to be a sports car...and therein lies a contradiction...
If one is to argue taht car is GT, a sports car etc...one must know how to classify. I propose that a sports car is defined by its INTENT....how its was designed, what the the intent of the car is and how it is to be driven, and its role in its own life.
that being said, we need to remind ourselves that despite speed, track times acceleration numbers, performance etc....cars like the mazda miata are more of a "true sports car" then any M3, M5 etc. The only TRUE sports cars BMW currenlty builds are the Z8, and Z3(M roadster/coupe). Note while they share parts in comon with 3 series, and M5's etc....their design intent was CLEARLY different.
Just my 2 cents.
10-23-2002, 06:06 PM
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chill out people!!
i didn't meant to post that article because i thought Z isn't a good car whatsoever!!
i am here becasue i love the Z as well as you guys! and i've read at least 15 reviews on the Z from the net to magazines every since the concept was debut in Tokyo!! and it defintely doesn't mean i knows nothing just because i don't post often on the board!! so please don't use that to against me
the reason that i posted that review was purely because the conclusion the reviewer came up was really really different from the rest of the review i read. and i thought it'd be intresting if you guys can take a look of it.
while you people are saying Z's design was so original that every thing was made to make it go fast. however, what do you say about the Maxima engine? and the G35 coupe?
i didn't meant to post that article because i thought Z isn't a good car whatsoever!!
i am here becasue i love the Z as well as you guys! and i've read at least 15 reviews on the Z from the net to magazines every since the concept was debut in Tokyo!! and it defintely doesn't mean i knows nothing just because i don't post often on the board!! so please don't use that to against me
the reason that i posted that review was purely because the conclusion the reviewer came up was really really different from the rest of the review i read. and i thought it'd be intresting if you guys can take a look of it.
while you people are saying Z's design was so original that every thing was made to make it go fast. however, what do you say about the Maxima engine? and the G35 coupe?
Last edited by tifosi; 10-23-2002 at 06:08 PM.
10-23-2002, 06:19 PM
#80
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Originally posted by tifosi
however, what do you say about the Maxima engine? and the G35 coupe?
however, what do you say about the Maxima engine? and the G35 coupe?