I'm curious. I have an '04 1/2 Enthusiast 6-speed with 3900 miles on it. I still don't know what my hiqhway mileage is (that is sad), but city mileage on my 6 mile commute to work appears to have settled in at 18-19 mpg. This is with fairly spirited driving shifting at 4000 to 5000 rpm.

I'm always amazed at the highway mileage of the Vette's. Hell, a S2000 barely gets better highway mileage. But, what does a C5 or C6 average in the city?

 

Perhaps you should trade for a Yugo. You almost never see one of those, at least not one that's still running.

 

it doesnt necessarily means he has to pay $900 a month, depending on the down payment, etc., he could be paying less than $700

 

First off the C6 does not weigh 3000lbs.It weighs around 3300.
And it is a great car. 400hp is nothing to sneeze at. The new interior is a great improvement over the C5(I own one),
but it still is not up to the premium Japanese brands or the German cars.The C6 is shorter and looks great.And it has now been confirmed that the Z06 will be 7.0l and 500+ hp.The Z06 will
weigh around 3000lbs.That makes for a deadly power to weight
ratio.I hate to sell my C5, but it is going bye bye Thursday.
It is\was a good car.

 

Somehow I'll manage to endure the horrible pain of the flames, but I am at least one such so-called "uneducated fool." I guess I'll have to give back my doctorate, since a self-proclaimed expert said I was uneducated. Anyhow, I'm a bit surprised someone who is educated (you say you are an electrical engineer) would claim to address the reliability of ANY 'vette and not respond directly to the Consumer Reports reliability surveys (they may not know squat about performance but they know a lot about reliability). For as long as I can remember, 'vettes have had a solid black dot (MUCH below average) in reliability. If you have even a bachelor's degree in any kind of engineering, you should be familiar enough w/statistics to know that the overall percentage of owners who have had problems with the Z were a lot smaller (above average reliability, even for the '03) than the percentage of 'vette owners, without regard to how many people choose to post on forums!

Where do you get your information, OTHER than from your impressions reading forum posts? Even assuming you're correct, I don't call the problems you enumerate for the C5 as "nagging," but terrible (Your only defense of them is they're less expensive than a Z tranny? In theory, any problem covered under warranty should cost the same). I'm not an automotive engineer, but I would imagine if the "fuel sender" doesn't send enough (or sends too much) fuel to the engine, you have a problem which requires a lengthy trip to the shop for those of us who live in rural areas. Likewise, if the "column lock" locks up, you can't go anywhere. I triple dog dare you to post that you would trust any 'vette as a daily driver you'd put 25k-40k mi./yr on with a straight face (don't dodge the issue in response by claiming you would CHOOSE another car for a daily driver for a different reason; the question is whether you would TRUST driving a C5 everyday that had, say, 100k miles already on it).

Furthermore, why are you so defensive that you have sunk to personal insults? That makes your case appear, at least, weaker. There's an old saying in the debate world: "Show me a debater who resorts to personal attacks, and I'll show you a debater who's losing his case." Just because SOME people who have posted have made SOME critical remarks about the C5 or C6, many remarks have been positive (if you bothered to read my entire post, you would have noticed that I praised the performance value for the dollar inherent in all 'vettes, and stated an intent to hopefully buy one in a few years for a weekend vehicle). Almost everyone, me included, acknowledged the 'vette (5 & 6) is faster and sticks better than the Z, but overall "better" is highly subjective on many fronts (I thought all BMWs were ugly until Bangle, and I love his much-maligned designs--what can I say, I like cars w/bulging butts). In any event, if you claim the 'vette is a clearly "better" car than the Z, so what? It darned well oughta be--it costs 15-20K more.

As for the Skyline, I think you directed those remarks at someone else, but I will admit that I hope C&D's new photoshop of a GT-R is WAY off base, b/c that thing is hideous. I may never be able to do w/o a convertible, anyway; my roadster has become addictive.

 

So, where are the pics?

 

Why, as my kid said who happens to be a GM Mechanic; it is just another Chevy and we will se plenty of you in the repair shop.

 

Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to drive a vette of any kind. I'm sure I would enjoy it though. I have heard people criticize the harsh ride of the Z, which I think is untrue. When you really push the Z the suspension feels too soft to me...I'm sure the vettes suspention is rough at low speeds on bad pavement as I'm sure it smooths out at higher speeds, but I digress.

How's the steering feedback on the C6?

 

I get it........you see everything in reverse. You're from the Bizarro world. Corvettes: BAD!!!.......NEW BMW'S: BEAUTIFUL!!!!

 

Oh Well! "Yugo" .. , does it have a look of marilyn monroe? or Franken Stein?

 

No, you don't "get it," and from the rest of your posts in this thread, you never did. I made ONE, and ONLY ONE, negative comment about the 'vette, either C5 or C6, or could you/did you not bother to read all of what I actually wrote? I said it outperformed the Z, and I said I wanted/intended to buy one, but I did say, accurately I believe, with Consumer Reports to back me up, that 'vettes are not generally very reliable, and that the Z has been more reliable than the C5. While past reliability d/n necessarily mean the Z will be more reliable than the C6, it's the best indicator we have (or do you not choose investments based on past performance?). I think that the size of the statistical sample collected by Consumer Reports is more accurate than a skewed, small, narrow demographic: those who post about cars on internet forums.

However, the point I made which you attempted to slam (don't expect to be hired as an insult joke writer anytime soon), which apparently went right over your head, was that many other factors which people use to choose cars are more subjective, such as opinions on which car is more stylish or attractive. Who's to say whose opinion on car beauty is "better"? BMW says their sales are up, so apparently a number of folks haven't been chased off by the new designs (are they all, like me, "bizarro"?) I DID express an opinion on the new BMW designs; I NEVER said whether or not I liked the C5 or C6 design better than the Z, one way or the other, because the point was you cannot quantify style, and one person's opinion is just as good as another's.

BTW, since you care, I think the C6 is clearly an improvement over the C5 in about every way, except appearance, and a whole lot of 'vette purists prefer the C5's exterior styling, as well. IMHO, the C5 is a more attractively styled car than the Z, and the C6 looks better from the side than the Z, but I like the Z's looks from the front and rear better than the new 'vette's. And you know what, despite what you might like, I am free to stay in America and disagree with you without being banished to the "bizarro world," as you might prefer.

 

novaz, my apologies. Because the discussion became a rather spirited debate of other issues which prompted me to post, I failed to congratulate you on your new baby. Hope you enjoy the C6!!

 

Lighten up, Sigmund. Have a Coke and a smile and chill out. I'll bet they couldn't pull a pin out of your a$$ with a tractor.

You must value your own opinons quite a bit to waste all that time boring us with your thoughts. What's your alleged "doctorate" in....sleep therapy?

 

Ok, time for me to fess up, I just bought a C6 too, Millenium Yellow with black leather interior. This car is awesome! One of the biggest differences between it and the Z is the ride. It is *not* rough in any sense of the word. It is very smooth compared to the 350Z, even a Z with the 04.5 "Euro tuned suspension". Yet it still handles *tight*.

My major complaint with my 350Z was the seats, not comfortable at all for my, admittedly a bit wide, butt. My secondary complaints about the Z (a roadster) were that it rode rough and was noisy on the road. The Vette answers all of those complaints. The seats are very comfortable, the ride is very nice, and the car is *quiet*. Maybe it isn't as quiet as a big Caddy of years past, but it is quiet.

The *big* difference you feel when driving the Vette is the incredible off the line torque of that big V8. It is downright scary fast off the line compared to the 350Z. The steering feels a bit "dead" compared to the Z, but it responds just as well, maybe better since I've taken some curves faster with the Vette than I felt comfortable taking in the Z.

My 350Z had the Blose stereo with Nav. The new Vette has a Bose (notice no 'l') stereo that sounds *great*, and the Nav is better too. I didn't have XM in the Z, but the Vette has it, and better integrated into the system too. I like it a lot. The only loss is that the CD player only takes one CD at a time instead of 6, but it'll play MP3s. Also has Onstar built into the auto-dim mirror, the Homelink moves to the driver's sun visor. There's a compass in the mirror too, not that that matters much with the Nav on board.

I think the interior quality is nicer than the Z. The materials look and feel rich. But it isn't perfect. The center console box is very shallow, just room for a few CD jewel cases, but its lid is leather covered, and placed just right as an armrest. There is a real glove box in the traditional location, but it is also much smaller than the behind the passenger seat box of the 350Z. Easier to access though. There's no sunglasses pocket, big boo on that. OTOH the two cupholders are placed much better, and are sturdy.

An ash tray and lighter are standard, and in a much more convenient location than the optional ash receiver on the Z. But there is only one accessory power outlet, inside the center console. That blows. It means my Escort and ZR3 Shifter have to be hardwired, but I suppose that's the better way to wire them anyhow.

But the seats, oh the seats, they are *so* comfortable, and adjustable. At the touch of a button you can flatten the side bolsters, or make them wrap around you. There's an inflateable lumbar support too. If someone can't get comfortable in a Vette, they can't get comfortable in any car.

While I thought the climate control in the Z was very good, the Vette is even better. You can get more air flow if you want it, and the passenger has her own climate control, so you don't have to fight over the temperature setting.

My Vette is a coupe, and there's *lots* of rear cargo space. My ZR had so little it was like backpacking when planning a trip. Not so with the Vette, plenty of room to carry whatever you might want. There are two deep covered compartments too, for out of sight storage.

The engine is a marvel too. Yeah it is a pushrod engine, but so what, it makes great power and *huge* amounts of usable torque. Gas mileage isn't bad either. I'm averaging 27.5 on the highway, and the engine isn't broken in yet. If you want even more power, it is a Chevy, and hop up parts are both plentiful and *cheap*.

Then there is "the look". I simply loved the look of my top down 350Z. But the Vette looks great too. To my eye, the side profile of the Vette is compelling. As a Viper fan, I love the new front end too. The look from the rear is a bit ah daunting. It has a *big* fat butt, but that grows on you. I thought the ZR's butt looked fat too. The headlights are also *much* better. This sucker really lights up the road.

What I didn't like about my ZR was the blind spots with the top up. Not a problem with the Vette coupe. It is no longer an adventure to back out of a driveway. However, the Vette *feels* bigger than it is. From the driver's seat, you get the impression of driving a very large car, taking up much more of the road than the Z. It isn't true, but it feels that way. When you get out the tape measure with the two cars side by side, the Vette is only slightly larger. Surprisingly, the Vette is the lighter car. It sure doesn't feel lighter, but the scales don't lie.

I really enjoyed owning my Z roadster, but I found I was driving it with the top up a lot more than with the top down. The Vette has a hard removeable top section, no squeaks, rattles or leaks, that eliminates a lot of the road noise the Z suffered. But it does come off, so for those times I want the open air driving experience, it is still there.

Finally, the money. I had been calculating what it was going to cost to boost the Z's power. Twin turbos, and built internals, were going to set me back more than $13,000 all told, and I'd wind up with a finicky car that didn't have a powertrain warranty anymore. For $15,000 difference, the Vette already has the extra power I was seeking, in a fully warranteed package, and it still has the potential for more if I ever decide to mod it. It really became a no brainer to go with the Vette.

 

As another C6 owner, I want to address what you said. First, I have no qualms whatsoever in trusting the Vette as a daily driver. I think you make too much of the Consumer Reports reliability statistic. They aren't primarily reporting "dead on the side of the road" problems. Historically, most Vette problems have been rattles, squeaks, leaks, or accessory problems. The factory has made a *major* effort to address those for the C6. Still, mine is going back to the dealer because one of the two cargo lamps doesn't work. (Note, I could fix this myself, but what the hell, it is a new car under warranty, I'm going to make them replace the bulb.)

Oh, BTW, the fuel sender is the thing in the gas tank that tells the gas gauge how much fuel is left in the tank. No big whoop.

Frankly, the only thing that concerns me about the C6 is the keyless entry and ignition system. Obviously that concerned Chevy too since they provide ways to get in the car and start it if the system were to fail. I don't expect to have trouble with this system, but if I do, I'm comforted that Chevy gave me a work around that won't leave me stranded on the side of the road.

 

I love my Z, but reading some people here talk about how the Corvette is so unreliable makes me laugh. Look at the reliability history of the Z. I know I may have a lemon, but let's take a look at the problems my Z is having right now:

- Transmission Grinding (Transmission re-adjustment from the dealer didn't help. Now soon to be replaced)
- Right rear Axle replaced (tightening the axle nuts didn't help)
- Front tires replaced and re-aligned
- Drivers seat replaced
- Window Grease
- Power outlet stopped working
- High-pitched whine on the highway

Yes, I still love my Z and I love every minute of driving the car, but it's been by far the most unreliable car I've ever owned.

 

Damn fine post on comparison, shopdog!

Thats the first post I've seen where I get a true sense of the delta in the two cars.

 

Shopdog:

Thanx for the writeup. I found it informtive.

You said the C6 feels much larger than the 350Z even though it is only slightly larger. So, the car feels big but not heavy? Did I read it right? To what do you attribute this sensation?

 

Here's my personal take on the C6 that I wrote at 350zmotoring also:

"There's an orange (copper type) C6 here in town. Trust me, from the rear the average Joe would not be able to tell the difference between the C5 and C6. The front on the C6 looks much hotter though. The Z still has the styling edge IMO. C6 looks like a C5 Corvette that had an affair with both a Viper and a Modena (ie., unoriginal styling).

Anyways, most of this is just opinion. The C6 is an awesome car, but in reality it's just an updated C5."

Also, you should see the problem list for the C6 already. Granted most of these cars probly won't have all these problems, it'd make me think twice about buying a first year C6:

1. BG plant shutdown 10/6/04. MN6 tranny issue. All MN6 cars put on hold for inspection prior to shipping.
2. Tranny popping out of 5th or 6th gear (may be related to above).
3. Gas gauge problems. Fuel sending unit bad. Known problem from C5. GM changed the fuel system mid-year 2003 to the C6 system and it appears they have not been able to correct this to date. No, its not the gas brand, its the FSU. Had a test car die in Germany due to this (discovery channel show). Unbelievable.
4. Wire missing in wiring harness for F55. Owners are unable to tell difference in ride characteristics/quality between Tour and Sport mode. GM sending an engineer to investigate owner’s car.
5. Check engine light on after a few miles. Side note, owner cannot retrieve codes and cannot reset them either. If you have On Star, codes can be retrieved but the On Star operator is not ‘authorized’ to let you know the codes. Have to take to dealer to reset codes. Unbelievable.
6. Excessive orange peel.
7. Polished wheels are milky/cloudy looking to some owners.
8. Crank pulley backed off and shredded belts.
9. Bad sound from front speakers, sound fuzzy especially when song has lots of bass.
10. CD cannot play songs above track #9. Work-around found.
11. Blown rear end on 2 C6s at the track. Maybe GM forgot to beef up the rear when they improved the tranny. Might be weak link in drive train. Don’t have details how sticky the tires were.
12. Poor AM/FM radio reception.
13. HUD display is crooked and fuzzy.
14. NAV locks up. Have to restart. Questionable capability of NAV (maps not detailed enough, gives bad directions) – not a defect, just a limitation of software and/or maps.
15. Hatch mechanism (power assist) works inconsistently. Still have to slam hatch. Nuisance item from C5 which GM has tried to address in C6, but looks like with limited success. This is particularly funny as the discovery channel show had Dave Hill testing this feature to ensure it worked correctly.
16. Driver/passenger visor easily pops out of the catch.
17. Cruise control not working.
18. Rattling sound when above 3K.
19. AC condensation dripping on exhaust
20. Brakes squeal
21. Electrical problems. Car stopped in middle of intersection (same person that reported item #4 above.)
22. Front emblem coming off.
23. Dead battery.
24. Homelink visor missing when car delivered.
25. Supply issues causing constraints on dual roof option, certain colors, etc. Come on GM, get your supply chain in shape. You know how vette buyers anxiously wait for their babies to be safely delivered to them.
26. Leaking rear differential
27. Column lock
28. Warped rotors
29. Rocking seats

My personal preference would be just to go FI on a 350Z and be as fast or faster than a C6 and still have the 5-10K you saved from not buying the C6 to do other things in life